Grand Mosque Imam must leave Belgium

[Cell_DbZ]

Grand Mosque Imam must leave Belgium

Belga
Tue 03/10/2017 - 13:47 MB

The Head Imam at Brussels’ Grand Mosque is no longer welcome in Belgium. The Federal Secretary of State responsible for migration Theo Francken (Flemish nationalist) has decided not to extend the Imam’s residency visa as he says that he has information that the Iman is a Salaphist. The Iman has lodged an appeal.
In February the Imam appeared before the Parliamentary Investigative Committee into the terrorist attacks on 22 March 2016.
Mr Francken says that he took the decision not to renew the Imam’s visa is based on information he had received from the Belgian security services.

"I received information that the man is a threat to our national security as he is a Salaphist. He is one of the main ideologists behind Wahabism in Europe”, Mr Francken.

Salafisme is a very conservative and radical tendancy within Islam that has a lot of support in Saudi-Arabia and the Gulf States.
"Salaphism already has many deaths on it conscience here with the jihad and the attacks by IS”, Mr Francken added.

http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/Politics/1.3077261

 

[AUz]

Western atheist governments “choosing” what Imam tells “right Islam” (read water down Islam with liberal bakwaas and gay rights)—and expelling those Imams who teach traditional Islam as it’s supposed to be.

And liberals and secularists would jump up and down to support this action. I thought they are all for “choice” and “freedom”—and time and again they are proven that they are just a desperate lot that want to impose their world view on others and make the world irreligious by all means. They have done it to all other religions and Islam is the last standing force of tradition and values in the world.

Be wary of your “local” liberals wherever you are, Muslim brothers and sisters.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Decision well taken every country has a right to protect it,s citizens from a time tested proven extremist ideology called Wahhabi or salafi.These ideologies are against the tenets of islam and giving bad name to islam.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

he is a Salafist. He is one of the main ideologists behind Wahabism in Europe”,

What an utter idiot...

"Salafism already has many deaths on it conscience here with the jihad and the attacks by IS”,

These people do realize that ISIS has absolutely nothing to do with Salafism, right?

Salafism goes back to the 18th century while ISIS goes back to the past decade.

 

[Flash_Ninja]

Unless they can show that he was preaching some right-wing or extremist version of Islam, this is a very silly move by the Belgian govt, it just shows how little the West understands about Islam.

...and this is coming from someone who is definitely not a fan of S.A or salafism in general.

 

[KediKesenFare3]

What an utter idiot...



These people do realize that ISIS has absolutely nothing to do with Salafism, right?

Salafism goes back to the 18th century while ISIS goes back to the past decade.

Elaborate, please.

 

[EasyNow]

Western atheist governments “choosing” what Imam tells “right Islam” (read water down Islam with liberal bakwaas and gay rights)—and expelling those Imams who teach traditional Islam as it’s supposed to be.

And liberals and secularists would jump up and down to support this action. I thought they are all for “choice” and “freedom”—and time and again they are proven that they are just a desperate lot that want to impose their world view on others and make the world irreligious by all means. They have done it to all other religions and Islam is the last standing force of tradition and values in the world.

Be wary of your “local” liberals wherever you are, Muslim brothers and sisters.

Dumbass, you think supporting choice and freedom means supporting hate-speech and intolerance? According to your 'logic' liberals standing up against right wing racists is wrong too.

FYI every Islamic civilisation mandated what kind of Islam was taught in their lands, there is nothing wrong in ensuring that Islamic teachings are not corrupted - or do you prefer it that way so you can excuse all your filthy wants?

Don't bother replying with the typical salafi rants from a Western civilisation bubble.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Elaborate, please.

ISIS doesn't care about the way Islam was "before". ISIS's main vision is to build a Caliphate but a Caliphate that doesn't emulate past ones. If ISIS truly believed in the Salafi strain of Islam then they would be following the past caliphates.


According to the Rashidun Caliphate, the Caliphate they are supposed to model after of, if they were actual Salafis.

The non-Muslim monotheist inhabitants - Jews, Zoroastrians, and Christians of the conquered lands were called dhimmis (the protected people). Those who accepted Islam were treated in a similar manner as other Muslims, and were given equivalent rights in legal matters. Non-Muslims were given legal rights according to their faiths' law except where it conflicted with Islamic law.

Have you seen ISIS do any of this?

The Rashidun caliphs had placed special emphasis on relative fair and just treatment of the dhimmis. They were also provided 'protection' by the Islamic empire and were not expected to fight; rather the Muslims were entrusted to defend them. Sometimes, in particular when there were not enough qualified Muslims, dhimmis were given important positions in the government.

Have you seen ISIS do any of this?


"If I order anything that would go against the order of Allah and his Messenger; then do not obey me". This is considered to be the foundation stone of the Caliphate. Caliph Umar has been reported to have said: "O Muslims, straighten me with your hands when I go wrong", and at that instance a Muslim man stood up and said "O Amir al-Mu'minin (Leader of the Believers) if you are not straightened by our hands we will use our sword to straighten you!". Hearing this Caliph Umar said "Alhamdulillah (Praise be to Allah) I have such followers."

Do you think al-Baghdadi would ever say this? I think not.


This argument is advanced by Sunni Muslims that Muhammad's companion Abu Bakr was elected by the community, and this was the proper procedure. They further argue that a caliph is ideally chosen by election or community consensus. The caliphate became a hereditary office or the prize of the strongest general after the Rashidun caliphate. However, Sunni Muslims believe this was after the 'rightly guided' caliphate ended (Rashidun caliphate).

Has ISIS ever elected a Caliph? I think not.


The mosques were not mere places for offering prayers; these were community centers as well where the faithful gathered to discuss problems of social and cultural importance. During the caliphate of Umar as many as four thousand mosques were constructed extending from Persia in the east to Egypt in the west. Al-Masjid an-Nabawi and Masjid al-Haram were enlarged first during the reign of Umar and then during the reign of Uthman ibn Affan who not only extended them to many thousand square meters but also beautified them on a large scale.

Has ISIS built any mosques? I think not.



If ISIS followed Salafism then they would have done all of this. But they haven't since they aren't Salafis.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Salafists are bat shit crazy we all know that...........

 

[mike2000 is back]

Unless they can show that he was preaching some right-wing or extremist version of Islam, this is a very silly move by the Belgian govt, it just shows how little the West understands about Islam.

...and this is coming from someone who is definitely not a fan of S.A or salafism in general.

Well, I think it depends. Since I believe Belgian security services won't want to publicly reveal how they collect intelligence and information.
Moreover, I believe there is no way Belgium will target this Imam for no reason. Since Belgium is a very liberal country even by European standards. If they decided not to grant this Imam stay in Belgium it must be for a very good reason.

 

[Cell_DbZ]

What an utter idiot...

Considering that the Imam has been in this positiion for 10 years in the capital of Europe, in Brussels biggest mosque, how is he not one of the most important Wahabi ideolog in Europe?

These people do realize that ISIS has absolutely nothing to do with Salafism, right?

Salafism goes back to the 18th century while ISIS goes back to the past decade.

No Wahabism teaches people to disrespect all but the most strickt form of Islam --> detachment of the rest of society --> feel of resentment --> start of radicalization --> ISIS (this chain is obviously explained in a simple manner).

Western atheist governments “choosing” what Imam tells “right Islam” (read water down Islam with liberal bakwaas and gay rights)—and expelling those Imams who teach traditional Islam as it’s supposed to be.

The 'right' Islam for those European countries is the Islam that respects the laws and duties of said countries, the law of that country is above Islamic law. If you can't deal with it, leave.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

how is he not one of the most important Wahabi ideolog in Europe?

What does that have anything to do with this? He has practiced Salafism for a long time. So what? There is nothing wrong with that. Doesn't Belgium have religious freedom? Salafis are just as peaceful as Sufis, Ibadis, and Shias.

No Wahabism teaches people to disrespect all but the most strickt form of Islam

Wrong.

This shows an extreme misunderstanding of the Salafi sect.

"The Salafist doctrine is centered around the concept of looking back to a prior historical period in an effort to understand how the contemporary world should be ordered."

There is nothing wrong with that.

detachment of the rest of society

Yeah no, it is the countries themselves who make their Muslim populations feel detached by constantly attacking their heritage and insulting their faith. Look to yourselves.

feel of resentment --> start of radicalization -

That's because of non-Muslim Europeans who espouse views like "Islam is cancer" not Salafism. You are trying to twist a world-view.

People join Salafism because of the people who say things like "Islam is cancer" not visa versa.

The 'right' Islam for those European countries

What's the "right" Christianity then? Or the "right" Judaism? What's the "right" Hinduism? Has Europe learned nothing from the Thirty years war and what happens when you start picking which sect is right and which sect is wrong?

You have no right to pick on someone simply because they espouse of a different view from the rest of the society, that doesn't just apply to Islamaphobes but it also applies to people like him. If he is not hurting anyone then what is the problem? This is extremely hypocritical.

 

[Cell_DbZ]

What does that have anything to do with this? He has practiced Salafism for a long time. So what? There is nothing wrong with that. Doesn't Belgium have religious freedom? Salafis are just as peaceful as Sufis, Ibadis, and Shias.

You called him an 'utter idiot' for it, he wasn't wrong in what he said, was he?

Wrong.

This shows an extreme misunderstanding of the Salafi sect.

"The Salafist doctrine is centered around the concept of looking back to a prior historical period in an effort to understand how the contemporary world should be ordered."

There is nothing wrong with that.

Yeah and what is that doctrine? Sharia law. Sharia is utterly unacceptable in Europe.
Now , Safaist movement is described to be very conservative, let's be honest, do they accept ohter point of views to be accetable? Of course they don't, it's theirs or bust.

There's a lot wrong with that (at least for European countries, the Saudis do wathever they want).

Yeah no, it is the countries themselves who make their Muslim populations feel detached by constantly attacking their heritage and insulting their faith. Look to yourselves.

There are always bigots, fact. But what do you consider 'insulting', criticizing? If you can't handle it, leave. Or is it the demand to follow and respect the rules of said countries above your own? If you don't want that, again, leave.
It's our country with our own heritage, you assimilate into our society, we don't have to change our way of life for you. You are still free to follow your religion in peace, you don't have to convert or anything, but our laws are above yours.

It's really easy to blame it all on 'evil western countries' and 'rasict population' for the radicalization of (some) muslims, isn't it? Perhaps it comes from both sides? I do blame western government in failing to anticipate the problem and failing to ecourage assimilaion.

What's the "right" Christianity then? Or the "right" Judaism? What's the "right" Hinduism? Has Europe learned nothing from the Thirty years war and what happens when you start picking which sect is right and which sect is wrong?

The reason why European countries are doing better is because we seperated religion with state affairs, that's what I meant. Salafism doesn't allow that, not in Saudi Arabia not in Belgium. Neither did 'conservative' Christianity, but they had to suck it up.
Then again Eu countries are Christian, of course it is going to be more compatible than Islam.

You have no right to pick on someone simply because they espouse of a different view from the rest of the society,

And that's not happening either. We interfere when we're going to have a problem when you try to create your own little society within our country with you own laws, while disregarding ours.

If he is not hurting anyone then what is the problem?

He might not be hurting anyone directly, but he is causing detachment with his uber conservative viewpoints, the man is a horrible example in what we mean with 'assimilation', he was in the country for 10 years and did not even speak our language even a little, a clear disrespect to our country.

 

[Ace of Spades]

No Wahabism teaches people to disrespect all but the most strickt form of Islam --> detachment of the rest of society --> feel of resentment --> start of radicalization --> ISIS (this chain is obviously explained in a simple manner).

Oversimplification and total lack of depth of knowledge, but what else to expect from a belgian kid. Salfisim, wahabism and their ideology is debatable but Mr. Sherlock the way you have connected the dots is impressive.

 

[Cell_DbZ]

Oversimplification and total lack of depth of knowledge, but what else to expect from a belgian kid. Salfisim, wahabism and their ideology is debatable but Mr. Sherlock the way you have connected the dots is impressive.

First of all, I said myself that I simplified it all, but was I wrong? Salafism/Wahhabism is detached from western society, which causes radicalization.
They are uber conservative and intolerant.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

Of course my sources are limited and I never claimed to be an intellectual wizard, why don't you go ahead and enlighten me, smartarse?