Grand Imam of Ka'ba, Mecca, Saudi Arabia to visit India

[LaBong]

Why don't Pakistanis realize that we need no certificate from them!

They need to justify their existence, and they say Indians don't accept the reality of Pakistan.

 

[Vinod2070]

Neither need one from you. keep your emotionalism at one side and try to accept the wrongs when these are there.

and 34 MPs representing BJP, Congress and other non-Muslim parties speak political language of their respective political parties

You seem to worry more about Indian Muslims!

Why, what has an Afghan tribal got to do with them?

They are doing fine and are in much better position than Pakistani Muslims by all accounts.

You are raising unsubstantiated conspiracy theories about India that are decades old. In you own country, things are happening on a daily basis.

Remember the 36 people killed recently, the PPP attacks just today?

 

[LaBong]

In secular country you have Hindutva parties but you are uneasy to idea of a Muslim Political party.

and NO your country is not at all doing fine as far as minorities are concerned .

just go and read the chronology of all those riots against and killing of non-Hindus in India

You are seriously misinformed considering the journalist tag you carry with you, there are severals Muslim religious political party, some have MPs in parliament.

We all have skeletons in our closets, the chronology of religious riot in subcontinent will reveal more than what you want to know.

 

[LaBong]

You seem to worry more about Indian Muslims!

Why, what has an Afghan tribal got to do with them?

Last time Indian Muslims looked up to Afghans for help during Khilafat movement, the british lackey Afghan king drove them out to Central Asia where most of them perished in unforgiving climate.

 

[Captain03]

you guys do know if anything happens to the imam it'll most likely be the start of WW3
WW1 started out with 1 important man dying as well

 

[Leader]

who is he ? that blind guy ? saudi stipend taker?

 

[Yeti]

Good news for our Indian muslim brothers and sisters God bless you Sir for visiting Hindustan

 

[desiman]

Neither need one from you. keep your emotionalism at one side and try to accept the wrongs when these are there.

and 34 MPs representing BJP, Congress and other non-Muslim parties speak political language of their respective political parties

Who gave Pakistan a right to speak on behalf of Indian Muslims like me ???? Solve your own problems first, Indian Muslims know how to take care of themselves and are a model to the world in terms of living in harmony with all religions.

 

[desiman]

Jana seriously dont turn this thread into a bash India one again, lets debate in a sane and logical way, kinda sick to see every single thread down to the same .

 

[DelhiDareDevil]

We dont need to prove to pakistanis how indian muslims are being treated!!!

 

[EjazR]

There must have been the ideology present that allowed this radicalization to occur, I am sure that as a centralized school, the Deobandi's should have been ale to keep a check on the activities of its seminaries. All people like Fazlur Rahman have only caused harm to Islam by using Islam as a political tool and never have they been called on this by the other leaders within this sect. Their acts go unabated even when there is a clear leadership present to stop it from happening.

Well there is nothing inherent in any major school of thought(including the much maligned wahabbi/salafi) that would lead to killing of innocent people muslim or non-muslim if that is what you are implying. They might be conservative even puritanical but its very difficult if not impossible to justify killing of innocent people or doing suicide bombings theologically. The reasons usually boil down to political reasons.

Radicalisation happened because there was an incentive for these groups to churn out brainwashed volunteers for the Afghan and later Kashmir conflicts and the school of thought played only a secondary role. Infact, even Maududi was opposed to so called Kashmir Jihad and vehemently opposed it. It was only under Qazi Hussain Ahmed that JI actually started supporting the Kashmir Jihad with logistics and man power.

And as far as control is concerned, there is no direct control from Deoband to madrassas in Pakistan. Pakistan is a soverign country and its difficult to exercise direct control across borders. But yes, terrorism and suicide bombings have been condemened extensively. For example between 2006-2008 there were atleast 30 major gatherings led by Jamial Ulema -i- Hind that gathered between 100,000 to 500,000 muslims and condemened terrorism and killing of innocent people in the name of Islam.

But clerics from Deoband, India have condemened Taliban actions and Fazlur Rehman's antics. The problem is that no one wants to listen to them or maybe there is no widspread media coverage.

As you may know, Deoband clerics as well as from conservative groups like Ahle-Hadees from all over India including Kashmir passed a resolution saying that there is no Jihad in Kashmir. Also here is a June article from 2009 condemning Taliban.

Deoband ulema term all Taliban actions un-Islamic
KARACHI, June 19 Senior clerics of India`s top seminary whose version of Islam the Taliban claim to follow have denounced the actions of the hardline militia, saying the group does not qualify to enjoy affiliations with the historic madressah.

In an interview with a correspondent of the BBC Urdu Service, the rector and the head of faculty of Darul Uloom (Waqf) Deoband said attacks by “vigilantes” in which innocent people died was not jihad but “indivi- dual zulm (oppression)”.

Seen in this light, attacks on shrines, barber shops and educational institutions were all un-Islamic.

Maulana Saalim Qasimi went to the extent of characterising the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, which was ousted by the US forces in 2001, as “un-Islamic”.

He said the Taliban did not comprehend fully the tenets of Islam even though much was made of their “Islamic government”.

He said Jamiat Ulema-i-Islam leader Maulana Fazlur Rehman, who supported the Afghan regime, was not a religious scholar. “He is more of a politician than a scholar.” “However, his father, Mufti Mehmood, was a scholar,” he said.

Maulana Aslam Qasimi, great grandson of Qasim Nanotvi, the founder of the madressah, said the recent statement by Sufi Mohammad that judiciary in Pakistan was un-Islamic was based on misconceptions and ignorance.

He said that Islam embraced concepts like democracy. “The spirit of democracy is very much there in Islam, though concepts like democracy have been taking new shapes and forms.”

I am talking about JUI which is a Deobandi led party and has itself affiliated with parties like JI. They enjoy the support and power also because of their huge following and they would have easily rose to the top as they did in Pakistan.

JI-Hind changed itself because of the environment not because they wanted to be more open and charitable. Muslim Brotherhood has taken steps also to come across as more moderate and credible but their core ideology is the same because they remain a religiously restricted party.

I would rather say that JUI is a political party led by a person who happens to be a graduate from school that follows the Deoband school of thought.

Deoband itself does not participate in politics as an organisation. A related organisation Jamiat-Ulema-i-Hind (this is seperate from Jamaat-Islami-Hind) itself does not participate in elections either. But there is no bar from individual graduates to participate in elections and support whatever party they want to.

And Muslim brotherhood like JI-Hind have made changes to their core ideology as well. Its only when democratic space is given to them and they are made to play by the rules that they will reform.

 

[Vinod2070]

Last time Indian Muslims looked up to Afghans for help during Khilafat movement, the british lackey Afghan king drove them out to Central Asia where most of them perished in unforgiving climate.

If I were to use their Hasan Nisaar's words for some Pakistanis: "Thudde kha ke bhi akal nahi aati"! (They don't get sense even after being beaten black and blue).

He mentions how the other Muslims have only contempt for their attempts to speak on their behalf even when they are not considered "first class" anywhere.

I have personally seen some Iranians showing their contempt for such people, same for Pushtuns on their forums, Arab treatment of all non Arab Muslims is well known. Indian Muslims are kicking their butt as well.

Still they can't change themselves. A case of severe identity crisis.

 

[Fireurimagination]

'Spare Mecca cleric from frisking during House visit'

NEW DELHI: Jamiat Ulama-i-Hind (Arshad Madani faction) requested Parliament's security officers on Friday not to frisk Sheikh Abdul Rehman Sudais, grand imam of Masjid-al-Haram in Mecca, during his visit to the House. Jamiat says Sudais, who is regarded as the highest religious leader of Muslims, should be spared the ordeal since it would be "unbecoming of his stature".

Sudais will be the first ever Imam-e-Haram to visit India, which begins on March 24. His engagements are largely restricted to the capital. He will visit the Parliament annexe on March 25 for a dinner that is being hosted in his honour. On March 26, he will address students at Darul Uloom in Deoband before the prayers. He will also lead the Friday prayers during his whirlwind trip to Darul, one of the largest Islamic seminaries in the world.

Sudais courted controversy in 2002 for his reported statements against the Jews, but has since urged Muslim youth to distinguish between "legitimate jihad" and "terrorizing peaceful people".

"We had a meeting in Parliament today to discuss the security aspects of the dinner in Imam-e-Haram's honour. We urged officers that he should not be frisked keeping his stature in mind," said a Jamiat working committee member. "The details have been satisfactorily worked out," he added.

Jamiat president Maulana Arshad Madani said, "This is a purely religious visit. We are honoured that he is coming to India. We are keen to showcase the way Islam is flourishing in this country. In a lot of ways, our situation is better than in the Arab countries. Other imams of Kabah have been to India in the past, but their visits were limited to the western states. Nobody this senior has ever come."

According to Maulana Madani, the grand imam's visit will lay emphasis on the universal concept of fraternity and brotherhood among religions. "Imam-Haram's message is of co-existence of religions and triumph of humanity," he added.

What say guys, sounds fair enough?

 

[twoplustwoisfour]

Yup, no need to frisk him, as long as he agrees to go through one of those x-ray machines UK is famous for