Govt exhorted to seek IMF-led debt restructuring for 3-5 years

[kursed]

People know, but whatever the civ/mil leaders may be doing with their finances, it is not enough to address Pakistan's current account deficit issues. Let's not sell these fairy tales to the masses that the thieving politicians are the only reason we are poor.

Our country as a whole just wants more of the stuff that others make and they they don't sell enough of their own. It is simply down to this basic issue. If there is a corruption of even $10B a year, that is not addressing the the almost $40B a year account deficit. Someone just posted that Rs1100 billion worth of corruption cases have been forgiven. Okay, recover the money and even then what ails Pakistan will continue.

So this talk of corruption is fine to prosecute some of these thieves and punish to set a precedence, but beyond that, we need a hard look at our economy (whether PDM or PTI) and what ails it. Jail sentences are not solving this problem "meray Pakistanio!"

Ban the imported cat food if the country does not attain a better balance of exports vs. imports.

Considering that you’re all in the know, and are aware of Pakistan’s extreme fiscal deficit. Do you want me to put down here the number of executive jets and luxury cars being bought off public exchequer and what’s being done with them? Fairly tales!? No. We have literal criminals, by any stretch of imagination in a civilized society, running the show here.

This is beyond just jail sentences, might as well check what’s happening with circular debt and which gov institutes are refusing to pay their bills to state of Pakistan? Fairly tales. Yes. Ofc.

On top of that, whenever a gov opts to put taxes beyond the salaried class or opts to document the economy - guess who becomes the biggest impediment to this exercise? All of this is our cold hard reality today, which has brought us to this level.

 

[blain2]

Considering that you’re all in the know, and are aware of Pakistan’s extreme fiscal deficit. Do you want me to put down here the number of executive jets and luxury cars being bought off public exchequer and what’s being done with them? Fairly tales!? No. We have literal criminals, by any stretch of imagination in a civilized society, running the show here.

This is beyond just jail sentences, might as well check what’s happening with circular debt and which gov institutes are refusing to pay their bills to state of Pakistan? Fairly tales. Yes. Ofc.

On top of that, whenever a gov opts to put taxes beyond the salaried class or opts to document the economy - guess who becomes the biggest impediment to this exercise? All of this is our cold hard reality today, which has brought us to this level.

Bring all the executive jets and luxury cars and put them on the list and even then it is just the tip of the iceberg for Pakistan's imbalance of payments. Imran Khan proudly went about putting his PM fleet on sale, new and old and it wasn't even worth $50M.

Circular debt? Now we are getting somewhere. So I agree, solve that problem but even then it is not the major reason we are broke which goes back to spending above and beyond our means.

"guess who becomes the biggest impediment to this exercise?" Who? Please don't put this too on the establishment!

 

[epebble]

Rent seeking works great in the USA today...its part of the service based economy. Ask the Trumps. USA trade and fiscal deficits are at record levels. USA has a reserve currency so can simply add more zeros to its accounts with a few key strokes at the federal reserve. Developing countries can not do this. PPP and PML economists try to emulate a service based economy of the west.....letting base and export industries wither.....and importing everything. Works fine for western countries but won't work in Pakistan.

I think library full of books have been written on rent seeking in U.S. economy. If U.S. dollar was not a reserve currency, our policy makers would have been in the same state of delirium that U.K. and Russia are in now. That being said, with all the problems we have, U.S. still has some distinct advantages, besides being a very large and diverse economy. The innovativeness of U.S. industry is a distinct advantage. If one were to look at last 60+ years for example, I can hardly think of anything, a product or service that was invented outside U.S. If I work hard, I may say Nintendo, Karaoke and Tiktok - hardly "must have" achievements. I do think Toyota's hybrid engine is an innovative design. Beyond that, I draw a blank. Hopefully, that is what will keep us relevant in spite of all our myriad problems.

 

[kursed]

Bring all the executive jets and luxury cars and put them on the list and even then it is just the tip of the iceberg for Pakistan's imbalances of payments. Imran Khan proudly went about putting his PM fleet on sale, new and old and it wasn't even worth $50M worth of assets.

Circular debt? Now we are getting somewhere. So I agree, solve that problem but even then it is not the major reason we are broke which goes back to spending above and beyond our means.

"guess who becomes the biggest impediment to this exercise?" Who? Please don't put this too on the establishment!

Crazy idea this, just google who traders met during PTI gov when it tried putting a 1.5% paltry tax on them and CNIC was made the bases of all transactions.

And they got what they wanted too.

Bring all the executive jets and luxury cars and put them on the list and even then it is just the tip of the iceberg for Pakistan's imbalances of payments. Imran Khan proudly went about putting his PM fleet on sale, new and old and it wasn't even worth $50M worth of assets.

Circular debt? Now we are getting somewhere. So I agree, solve that problem but even then it is not the major reason we are broke which goes back to spending above and beyond our means.

"guess who becomes the biggest impediment to this exercise?" Who? Please don't put this too on the establishment!

Boss, we are living beyond our means - true. But people aren’t going to change direction of the country. It’s the ruling class and establishment, which right now is only interested in making more and more money for themselves.

The point about executive jets and luxury cars was to establish that no one gives a toss. Pakistan can go to hell for all they care.

 

[Pogical Thinking]

Crazy idea this, just google who traders met during PTI gov when it tried putting a 1.5% paltry tax on them and CNIC was made the bases of all transactions.

And they got what they wanted too.


Boss, we are living beyond our means - true. But people aren’t going to change direction of the country. It’s the ruling class and establishment, which right now is only interested in making more and more money for themselves.

Are you referring to when this happened?

"Prime Minister Imran Khan says that Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Qamar Javed Bajwa met business tycoons “with his permission”. “Where there is no rule of law people gravitate towards power. The army chief asked for my permission to meet the businessmen and I saw no harm in it,” journalist Amber Rahim Shamsi quoted him as saying."

General Bajwa — the business broker

On the 3rd of October 2019, General Qamar Javed Bajwa met with the heads of Pakistan’s leading business families at a dinner reception. Anyone who was anyone was there. Mian Mansha, Hussain Dawood,

profit.pakistantoday.com.pk

 

[kursed]

Are you referring to when this happened?

"Prime Minister Imran Khan says that Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Qamar Javed Bajwa met business tycoons “with his permission”. “Where there is no rule of law people gravitate towards power. The army chief asked for my permission to meet the businessmen and I saw no harm in it,” journalist Amber Rahim Shamsi quoted him as saying."

General Bajwa — the business broker

On the 3rd of October 2019, General Qamar Javed Bajwa met with the heads of Pakistan’s leading business families at a dinner reception. Anyone who was anyone was there. Mian Mansha, Hussain Dawood,

profit.pakistantoday.com.pk

Referring to his meeting with small traders, when PTI was trying to levy a paltry tax on trader class In order to document the economy better.

 

[blain2]

Referring to his meeting with small traders, when PTI was trying to levy a paltry tax on trader class In order to document the economy better.

Please present facts, not conjecture. Is there anything factual that it was the Army leadership that told small traders not to pony up taxes?

There is this tendency among supporters of a party to point their own government's failures at someone else's doorstep every single time (reminds me of PPP fanbase where everything was someone else's fault). Own up that it was the PTI government's own tax policy that failed. What does the Army leadership have to do with that?

Our economy is a gift that each government presents to the next one and the gift gets uglier each time. What was left for the current idiots in charge is worse than what the PTI idiots who ran it (remind me how many finance ministers PTI ran through, my recollection is 5) inherited from the morons before them. So they have collectively screwed up Pakistan's economy and the game is that everyone tries to pass the buck to the next qurbani ka bakraa.

 

[kursed]

Please present facts, not conjecture. Is there anything factual that it was the Army leadership that told small traders not to pony up taxes?

There is this tendency among supporters of a party to point their own government's failures at someone else's doorstep every single time (reminds me of PPP fanbase where everything was someone else's fault). Own up that it was the PTI government's own tax policy that failed. What does the Army leadership have to do with that?

Our economy is a gift that each government presents to the next one and the gift gets uglier each time. What was left for the current idiots in charge is worse than what the PTI idiots who ran it (remind me how many finance ministers PTI ran through, my recollection is 5) inherited from the morons before them. So they have collectively screwed up Pakistan's economy and the game is that everyone tries to pass the buck to the next qurbani ka bakraa.

It is simply tiring when the fan base of Pakistan’s oldest, most organized and biggest political party, outrightly refuses to see what their leadership has been up to through out the 70 odd years of its existence. It’s as if they don’t even know how Pakistan operates.

Anyway, this is Shabbar Zaidi - trying not to get a vigo called on himself. If you want more facts, please refer to any person in the know. You won’t find people talking about the negative role of establishment in economic decisions In public, give establishment doesn’t like facts coming out in public.

There is no question to the fact that PTI made its own share of mistakes. But in spite of their mistakes, they were doing something’s right too. Whether it was about generating revenue or building up on exports.

To suggest that mil establishment was not playing an active role within economics and negatively affecting - still to this very day - several decisions taken by civilian leadership is simply false and acting blind to how Pakistan operates, in the real.

And this has not ended, Dar was championed by establishment since they thought he’d bring the USD-PKR rate down, as if by magic. So, here we are. And Miftah is out.

Mil establishment is used to given handouts and likes to economically live in a situation where they know their bills are supported by an outside entity. Ideas that suggest that Pak needs hard decisions in order to setup a recovery base and then to build on it, is lost on them. Or that the state’s economy needs fair taxation and documentation is lost on them.

As I said before which was for some reason ignored by you, just look at the number of their own buys in a year in which Pakistan’s not only facing a CAD crisis but severe shortage of US$. This has nothing to do with the defense of the country.

 

[Olympus81]

Would like to recall Dar was invited back to become a Finance Minister, thanks to the bait between Bajwa and Dar.

The establishment believed Dar would bring the dollar to below 200, after his previous hitman project against Pakistan’s economy.

The PTI left Pakistan’s economy in satisfactory health, believing they had a chance of surviving VNC. Miftah failed to reverse the subsidies and rolled over loans. Suffice to say, the new government were bleeding the coffers in favor of politics.

When you bring crooks at the helm, it is natural that things will go South. Simple law of nature.

Moving on, the solution to this issue is simple. Elections and then a new government with a fresh mandate to make difficult decisions on every front.

 

[blain2]

Would like to recall Dar was invited back to become a Finance Minister, thanks to the bait between Bajwa and Dar.

The establishment believed Dar would bring the dollar to below 200, after his previous hitman project against Pakistan’s economy.

The PTI left Pakistan’s economy in satisfactory health, believing they had a chance of surviving VNC. Miftah failed to reverse the subsidies and rolled over loans. Suffice to say, the new government were bleeding the coffers in favor of politics.

When you bring crooks at the helm, it is natural that things will go South. Simple law of nature.

Moving on, the solution to this issue is simple. Elections and then a new government with a fresh mandate to make difficult decisions on every front.

Deep down, Khan Saab is thanking his lucky stars that he is not at the helm of the country right now.

It is simply tiring when the fan base of Pakistan’s oldest, most organized and biggest political party, outrightly refuses to see what their leadership has been up to through out the 70 odd years of its existence. It’s as if they don’t even know how Pakistan operates.

Anyway, this is Shabbar Zaidi - trying not to get a vigo called on himself. If you want more facts, please refer to any person in the know. You won’t find people talking about the negative role of establishment in economic decisions In public, give establishment doesn’t like facts coming out in public.

View attachment 903769

There is no question to the fact that PTI made its own share of mistakes. But in spite of their mistakes, they were doing something’s right too. Whether it was about generating revenue or building up on exports.

To suggest that mil establishment was not playing an active role within economics and negatively affecting - still to this very day - several decisions taken by civilian leadership is simply false and acting blind to how Pakistan operates, in the real.

And this has not ended, Dar was championed by establishment since they thought he’d bring the USD-PKR rate down, as if by magic. So, here we are. And Miftah is out.

Mil establishment is used to given handouts and likes to economically live in a situation where they know their bills are supported by an outside entity. Ideas that suggest that Pak needs hard decisions in order to setup a recovery base and then to build on it, is lost on them. Or that the state’s economy needs fair taxation and documentation is lost on them.

As I said before which was for some reason ignored by you, just look at the number of their own buys in a year in which Pakistan’s not only facing a CAD crisis but severe shortage of US$. This has nothing to do with the defense of the country.

My friend, SAZ himself is saying government of the day supported it and then withdrew support along with the establishment. You painted it as if the establishment was running the economy and bypassing the government of the day and saying no here and in doing so, are clearly giving a free pass to PTI which should have stuck to its guns and made it happen. On top of that, the PTI was paying subsidies that Pakistan could not afford so not only were we not generating revenue but leaking money for political mileage when the country was hardly able to afford it.

PTI is welcome to rule again but it needs to stop these sorry post-fact, mea culpa exercises where they screw the pooch and then say "I should have never done x, y and z." If so then how are the donkeys in PDM and their mistakes any different from the morons in PTI?

 

[Goenitz]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600577909827190796

 

[kursed]

Deep down, Khan Saab is thanking his lucky stars that he is not at the helm of the country right now.

My friend, SAZ himself is saying government of the day supported it and then withdrew support along with the establishment. You painted it as if the establishment was running the economy and bypassing the government of the day and saying no here and in doing so, are clearly giving a free pass to PTI which should have stuck to its guns and made it happen. On top of that, the PTI was paying subsidies that Pakistan could not afford so not only were we not generating revenue but leaking money for political mileage when the country was hardly able to afford it.

PTI is welcome to rule again but it needs to stop these sorry post-fact, mea culpa exercises where they screw the pooch and then say "I should have never done x, y and z." If so then how are the donkeys in PDM and their mistakes any different from the morons in PTI?

Yes, PTI until one day before the meeting with COAS was all for it, one day after it they suddenly had the epiphany to go against their own policy. Estb made the Gov go back on their policy, this is what I mentioned and I stand by my words. No subsequent gov will bring traders under tax net or document the economy for this one reason alone, establishment is squarely against it and finds it against their interests. You can etch it on stone, if you feel like it. =)

Anyway, feel free to get in touch with SAZ and ask for the role that establishment played in making this happen. And 'what' made the Gov back off. PTI's subsidy at the end of the tenure was not unlimited, it was made unlimited by Miftah and the ensuing VONC.

LOL at PTI is welcome to rule again. Estb prefers a Pakistan the begs for the next meal on the table, not an independent one. They'd never let the country survive enough to stand on its own feet. It is an established fact by now. I feel like I am talking to someone who has literally no idea about how Pakistan operates. And what interest groups affect governance.

 

[epebble]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600577909827190796

Wow, not even the slightest awareness of how this will look to common people who may have to live without imported medicines or vegetables. Pakistan military is the greatest fraud being committed on the people of Pakistan. Sadly, there seems to be no way to get out of this bondage.

 

[blain2]

Yes, PTI until one day before the meeting with COAS was all for it, one day after it they suddenly had the epiphany to go against their own policy. Estb made the Gov go back on their policy, this is what I mentioned and I stand by my words. No subsequent gov will bring traders under tax net or document the economy for this one reason alone, establishment is squarely against it and finds it against their interests. You can etch it on stone, if you feel like it. =)

Anyway, feel free to get in touch with SAZ and ask for the role that establishment played in making this happen. And 'what' made the Gov back off. PTI's subsidy at the end of the tenure was not unlimited, it was made unlimited by Miftah and the ensuing VONC.

LOL at PTI is welcome to rule again. Estb prefers a Pakistan the begs for the next meal on the table, not an independent one. They'd never let the country survive enough to stand on its own feet. It is an established fact by now. I feel like I am talking to someone who has literally no idea about how Pakistan operates. And what interest groups affect governance.

establishment is squarely against it and finds it against their interests.

How so? Please prove this. It is almost clownish (yet passes as currency in the PTI ranks) to lay every anti-state, anti-Pakistan narrative at the doorstep of the military and claim they are working against their very own country just because they are not willing to go along with IK.

The military has no interests that would get adversely impacted by the imposition of taxes on the business community.

It is also quite simply a silly proposition given every single commissioned, non-commissioned and ranker pays his/her due of taxes to the national kitty, yet their very own service would go out of its way to give the free-loaders in the business community a pass on their taxes.

At a minimum, one should ask SAZ why the push back came from both the government of the day and the establishment as he claims. I am sure it wasn't for some petty "self-interest" as is being claimed here.

"Estb prefers a Pakistan the begs for the next meal on the table, not an independent one."

Really? If that were the case then why did IK and PTI do their mandatory umrah trips to KSA and also to UAE, China and even the US with the begging bowl in hand? They should have shown the "khuddari" that is constantly being bandied around by the PTI and eaten grass to avoid the begging bowl. Yet the begging bowl it was with the much hated Bajwa acting as the pathfinder for Khan sahib before each of his trips.

 

[kursed]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1600577909827190796

As I keep saying, they are living in a world of their own! And every single ex-officer knows this, and knows the kind of shit being done on the name of institution right now.