Gorshkov to be handed over to India by Dec '12

[flanker143]

I also read somewhere that it can hold 30 fighters. Please clarify.

it can hold 30 "aircrafts" "including" jets and choppers....

a/c carriers carry a combo of both .....

just like u i also felt a little bad due to such low no.s

 

[d14gtc]

yes as i quoted earlier - Carriage ranges given for the refitted Vikramaditya seem to average 12-16 fighters and 4-16 of the compact Ka-28/31 helicopters; it seem to suggest total storage space no more than 15-16 MiG-29Ks............. but sure considering its size n strength its carriage range is Low.

 

[Dash]

This was the worst defence contract ever, By this time IAC1, had this been started would have been ready and patrolling....

But cant do anything now....

 

[SEAL]

No honey it will equip with Brahmos supersonic cruise missile escorting by Like shivalik class FFG & Delhi or Kolkata Class destroyer also K-152 & Arihant (ATV) Nuk. Submarine which equip with K-15 750 km and Agni - III(3500km) SLBM.

Heard of ship-launched BrahMos? 290 Km.

Oh my
Hats of to your thinking.
Professor how can Brahmos supersonic (anti ship)cruise missile Agni - III(3500km),K-15 750 km submarines can stop Air Raid? I already mentioned about escorting Indian frigates their Surface to air capability is limited to 40-50km.

 

[sancho]

This was the worst defence contract ever, By this time IAC1, had this been started would have been ready and patrolling....

But cant do anything now....

Totally agree! Delayed, overpriced, limited to Mig fighters and even with all the new parts, it was in service for decades.
One point that worries me the most is the supply of spares. We had enough experience with spare issues at several Russian aircrafts, but these were build in high numbers. I wonder how difficult the supply of spares for this carrier will be, in the next years of service.

 

[Kinetic]

Oh my
Hats of to your thinking.
Professor how can Brahmos supersonic (anti ship)cruise missile Agni - III(3500km),K-15 750 km submarines can stop Air Raid? I already mentioned about escorting Indian frigates their Surface to air capability is limited to 40-50km.

A simple search can help you!!!! Those air defence systems onboard the ships are capable of destroying supersonic targets so forget subsonic missiles. Barak, Kashtan-M and Shtil are very good anti-missile systems. And before the Pakistani aircrafts can launch those missiles towards the ship it has to face the fighters onboard the ship. Also its very difficult to find these carriers in the vast sea.

There are huge advantages of having carriers. but they are very costly and require high end operational capabilities.

 

[Kinetic]

This was the worst defence contract ever, By this time IAC1, had this been started would have been ready and patrolling....

But cant do anything now....

Yeah!!!! Our own all new IAC-1 costs less than the Vikramaditya. But its good to see we got it least. Navy needed three carriers by 2015.

 

[Dash]

Oh my
Hats of to your thinking.
Professor how can Brahmos supersonic (anti ship)cruise missile Agni - III(3500km),K-15 750 km submarines can stop Air Raid? I already mentioned about escorting Indian frigates their Surface to air capability is limited to 40-50km.

OK Fox -

I know You have a valid point, we have SAMs on ships of range have max range of 60 Kms..

But you are not looking at one part of pic here.

The other part -
A ship has a long range radar, and in case your Mirages carry harpoon they will be visible at a distance of mimimum 300 Kms distance (Trust me they will be) like a glowing sun in the radars.

The ship will then scramble its Mig 29s, 16 Migs with Zhuk-MESA and R-77 BVRs will then start an air raid over your JF-17 and Mirages. Iam sure you know what RADAR you have on JF-17, dont you???(or are you still deciding).

Now the AWACs flying low will also detect the fighters with 'evil intentions' and detect the targets, their co-ordinates then will be passed on to Mig-29s through datalink and Migs will know the targets even before your MIrage gets a lock on on the AC.

They will then 'try' to take out the Mirages and Iam sure they will be blown into peices even before they detect the MIgs.

And if they still maneg to miss out, You have the SAM.
and SAMs at range 60kms are as destructive at 600 Kms....

even if you send 50 Mirages(thats what you have) for sinking the Vikramaditya, you still will be at loss, as they will be firing the Micas (may be some chinese), which is 50 Kms range and 35 Kms kinetic kill range will all be lost in Arabean sea.....

Now see how the game changes....

 

[sancho]

Oh my
Hats of to your thinking.
Professor how can Brahmos supersonic (anti ship)cruise missile Agni - III(3500km),K-15 750 km submarines can stop Air Raid? I already mentioned about escorting Indian frigates their Surface to air capability is limited to 40-50km.

I don't have the intention to join the discussion with you, but just keep in mind that the first line of defense for a carrier, are it's fighters!


Mig 29K:

- RCS now comparable to PAFs F16s
- more internal fuel and air refueling capability (via other Mig 29s, buddy buddy refueling)
- Zhuk ME radar
- R73/R77 missiles
- HMS
- IRST
- customised avionics

So before you compare the ranges of your anti ship and our SAM missiles, it would be worth to think about how to pass them in A2A, before you can even try to get a hit on the carrier right?

 

[satishkumarcsc]

India invested nearly 3 billion$ (not included2-3 billion$ mig-29k deal) on AC which can carry only 12-16 fighter jets.


If i have com i will definitely take risk with 10-12 fighters to destroy this white elephant.

1 JF-17 with EW pods.
2 mirages with Harpoons
2 JF-17 with C-802A
5 jets for escort and to engage Mig-29Ks.

THis shows you know nothing about naval warfare and A/C operations. In times of Heightened tensions and if the A?C is in hostile waters it will always have the air being patrolled by atleast 4 aircrafts from the flight deck at any given time and that will include the KA 31 Helix AEW helicopter than can see more than 200kms range. Then you will have to face the aircrafts like the MiG 29K as you approach a CBG that will most probably intercept you before your aircraft flies into the missile range. Then you have different radars and EW systems on the air craft carrier and the escort ships which you need to avoid. So I think getting to the "white elephant" will be a bit difficult for the JF strike group. and deploying almost half a squadron of aircrafts to attack is plain stupidity. and the JF can carry only a limited number of C 802. it is more like a suicide mission for the JFT squadron as more than 1/2 of the aircrafts wont return.

Your plan will work only in case of peace time. You talk about theEW on the JFT but you forgot about the EW on the Indian ships, Harpoons are the major test bed used by the Israelis to test their EW and AD, and C-802 is still subsonic so the CIWS that handles harpoons will also handle this.

And above all the A/C carrier dosent even need to come near ur shore to do its work and usually stays at the high seas to just blockade your shipping lanes cutting off your supply chains.It can be done far away from your range of fighters.

 

[Dash]

Totally agree! Delayed, overpriced, limited to Mig fighters and even with all the new parts, it was in service for decades.
One point that worries me the most is the supply of spares. We had enough experience with spare issues at several Russian aircrafts, but these were build in high numbers. I wonder how difficult the supply of spares for this carrier will be, in the next years of service.

Thats also a worry..
However, iam sure they will have some sort of agreements with Russia to furbish or repair the carrier here.
As far as the systems on board, I see the SAMs and other guidance systems and also the command control system is not Russian, The Indian missile guidance and command ceentre on board Shivalik class I think will be used. (Not sure if this is the case).

They will try to change the Ship technically over a period of time, if they want to avert any mishapps.

else I wonder the ship is under repair in Russia and we have a raid from our neighbours, what a laugh it will be.

 

[sudhir007]

And above all the A/C carrier dosent even need to come near ur shore to do its work and usually stays at the high seas to just blockade your shipping lanes cutting off your supply chains.It can be done far away from your range of fighters.

Good point now there is no need to discussion more when a CBG is in high AB sea none of pak fighter will come and catch up But our longer range missile will reach them

 

[Swift]

lolzzzzzzzzzzz nice for you people to think that we are purchasing something hahahaha...in reality some poor children start crying and start asking for putting pressure on the countries from which Pak is going to purchase defence equipments...

As far as you defence budget is concerned...seriously if you ask any economist then he would only say misallocation of money....bcz india is to big and one of the world largest population bearing country...which spends 90 pc on defence and remaining on all other things.

sorry to go off topic..

Oye Qadri,

Prove India is spending 90% of budget on defence or **** off.
dont vomit bullshit in all the threads.

 

[gowthamraj]

Only 16 iac-1 also held the same are higher

 

[!!craft!!]

why?????? don't you read the post i quoted....?

dude please read the article which ever you are refering carefully ...i dont think even rupee new will quate india spending 90%of its economy on defence ...please simmer down a little bit .... i wont give you any explanation cos i dont want to answer a troller like you..if you wanna know see some neutral sources about the indian defence expenditure just google if from a neutral source if you can...