Global: What is the best fighter for Croatia?

[yugocrosrb95]

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Saab offers 14 fighter jets for 700 million euros thus 50 million euros(55 million US dollars) per unit for new Gripen C/D.

Also French offered used Mirage, USA offered used and new F-16's and Korean's offered new KAI FA-50.

 

[Basel]

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Saab offers 14 fighter jets for 700 million euros thus 50 million euros(55 million US dollars) per unit for new Gripen C/D.

If Croatia can afford then Gripes NG with Erieye AWACS is good plane for frontline fighter as only 6 person can operate it from remote parts of the country and its very advance too. While JF-17 can be work horse / back bone plane.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

If Croatia can afford then Gripes NG with Erieye AWACS is good plane for frontline fighter as only 6 person can operate it from remote parts of the country and its very advance too. While JF-17 can be work horse / back bone plane.

I know its Gripen, I am assuming it is C/D due to price and NG is still far away and Sweden and Brazil will produce them in 2018/2019.

JF-17 is a nice plane, but Korean's have FA-50 which is has western electronics and weapons, closer to NATO standard and Russian engine is the issue, if it had Chinese then maybe though JF-17 is more for Asia, South America and Africa.

 

[Kamil_baku]

I would choose Saab Gripen or F16, as many countries use the second one and huge posibility to get repairs in case of need.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

I would choose Saab Gripen or F16, as many countries use the second one and huge posibility to get repairs in case of need.

Gripen is my favorite... I would avoid F-16.

 

[Basel]

I know its Gripen, I am assuming it is C/D due to price and NG is still far away and Sweden and Brazil will produce them in 2018/2019.

JF-17 is a nice plane, but Korean's have FA-50 which is has western electronics and weapons, closer to NATO standard and Russian engine is the issue, if it had Chinese then maybe though JF-17 is more for Asia, South America and Africa.

If you want JF-17s then you may be able to get it with western NATO standard systems like Vixen-1000e AESA radar and EJ-200 engine version for JF-17s, its on customer's choice what they want and can afford.

 

[yugocrosrb95]

If you want JF-17s then you may be able to get it with western NATO standard systems like Vixen-1000e AESA radar and EJ-200 engine version for JF-17s, its on customer's choice what they want and can afford.

If Pakistan and China want to sell JF-17 as much as possible, they need to make moves first, there needs to be initiative...

 

[Basel]

If Pakistan and China want to sell JF-17 as much as possible, they need to make moves first, there needs to be initiative...

Croatia can put RFI about JF-17s.

 

[Curious_Guy]

Is europe a market for thunder ?

 

[Penguin]

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=hr&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=hr&ie=UTF-8&u=http://www.hrt.hr/312443/vijesti/koji-je-borbeni-lovac-najbolji-za-hrvatsku&edit-text=&act=url

Saab offers 14 fighter jets for 700 million euros thus 50 million euros(55 million US dollars) per unit for new Gripen C/D.

Also French offered used Mirage, USA offered used and new F-16's and Korean's offered new KAI FA-50.

To protect its airspace, Croatia must consider it's neighbours: Italy, Slovenia, Hungary, Serbia, Bosnia & Hercegovina and Montenegro.

Foreign Relations:

• The relations between Croatia and Italy have been largely cordial and friendly (although occasional incidents do arise on issues such as the Istrian exodus or the Ecological and Fisheries Protection Zone.) Both countries are full members of the European Union and NATO.
  
• Croatia and Slovenia have several land and maritime boundary disputes, mainly in the Gulf of Piran, regarding Slovenian access to international waters, a small number of pockets of land on the right-hand side of the river Dragonja, and around the Sveta Gera peak. Slovenia was disputing Croatia's claim to establish the Ecological and Fisheries Protection Zone, an economic section of the Adriatic. Both countries are full members of the European Union and NATO, however.
  
• The relations between Croatia and Hungary have been largely cordial and friendly. Both countries are full members of the European Union and NATO.
  
• The Danube border between Croatia and Serbia is in dispute, particularly in Baranja, the Island of Vukovar and the Island of Šarengrad. Croatia is full member of the European Union while Serbia is candidate for membership.
• The majority of the 'Yugoslav wars' were fought on Bosnia–Herzegovina territory. After the wars Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia retained the same border they had during SFR Yugoslavia. The two countries have several small disputed sections of the boundary (e.g. along the Una river) , the most prominent of which is the one related to maritime access(Neum, Pelješac peninsula). The ratification of the 1999 border agreement has not happened as of 2013. Both countries are full members of the Council of Europe
  
• Croatia and Montenegro have a largely latent border dispute over the Prevlaka peninsula. Croatia is full member of the European Union while Montenegro is candidate for membership. The accession of Montenegro to NATO has been in the negotiations stage as of 2010. A formal invitation was issued by the alliance on 2 December 2015, beginning the final accession talks which could be concluded by the Warsaw summit in July 2016.

Most likely conflict - if any would arise - would be with B&H, Serbia, and to a lesser extent Slovenia.

What do they all fly?
Italy: AMX International AMX, Panavia Tornado, Eurofighter Typhoon, and in future Lockheed -MartinF-35
Slovenia: Pilatus PC-9/M,
Hungary: JAS39 Gripen
Serbia: Orao, Super Galeb, Mig 21, Mig 29 (potentially still some Jastreb & Galeb)
Bosnia & Hercegovina: Jastreb, Orao, Galeb
Montenegro. Super Galeb

What does Croatia fly?
Croatia: Mig-21, PC-9

Croatia need a fighter good enough to counter Serbia's Mig 29s. Alternatives considered included Lockheed Martin's F-16, Saab's JAS-39 Gripen, France's Mirage 2000, Israeli Kfir and a version of South Korea's T-50. Leading contenders are Lockheed Martin's F-16 and Saab's JAS-39 Gripen. Personally, I think Kfir block 60 is not a bad option, it can certainly deal with Mig-21s (Serbia has only 4 Mig 29s left, probably in not too good a shape). But most likely it will be F-16 or Gripen. F-16 is most Nato compatible/furnishable, but Gripen is in service with e.g Hungary, Czech republic. Interestingly enough, both these Gripen user LEASE them (with an option to buy at the end of the lease), rather than buy, which is said to represent significant cost-savings. The NATO-compatible C/D 'Export Gripen' standard would be needed.

Slovakia is eager to lease eight to twelve SAAB JAS 39C/D Gripen aircraft for the coming 10 to 15 years.
Slovakia “wants Gripen” from 2016 | AIRheadsFLY.com

The amount mentioned above is similar to the amount the Czech payed. The lease was for 12-14 aircraft for an agreed period of 10 years at a cost of €780 million.

Is europe a market for thunder ?

For Croatia, it has to be fully nato compatible.

It was offered to Bulgaria. Here is what Janes said about that:

Bulgaria is to be offered the Pakistan Aeronautical Complex/Chengdu Aircraft Industry Corporation (PAC/CAC) JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft, according to national media reports.

The single-seat, single-engined fighter is to be offered by Pakistan as an alternative to the several Western aircraft types that are all vying to be selected by Bulgaria as it looks to replace its ageing MiG-29 'Fulcrum' and Sukhoi Su-25 'Frogfoot' platforms, the novinite.com Sofia News Agency reported on 4 March.
...
While Bulgaria's economic situation would appear to make it a good candidate for the approximately USD30 million fighter (a comparable Western type would likely cost double this at least), its status as a NATO member would not.

As one of the alliance's newest members, Bulgaria is striving towards achieving full interoperability with its NATO partners, and indeed this is one of the primary reasons that it is looking to replace its Soviet-era MiGs and Sukhois. The JF-17 is not a NATO-compatible aircraft (although it can be upgraded to be so), and so is not a good fit for Bulgaria operationally.

Politically, such a procurement of a joint Chinese-Pakistani platform would be extremely difficult for Bulgaria, as evidenced by the reaction to Turkey's proposed procurement of the China Precision Machinery Import and Export Corp (CPMIEC) HQ-9 air and missile defence system in 2013.

That decision caused a fury, with Turkey's alliance partners saying that the Chinese system would never be integrated with NATO systems, effectively forcing a back down from the Turkish government, which is now moving away from the HQ-9 and is restarting negotiations with US and European suppliers instead.

Being a new and enthusiastic member of NATO, Bulgaria will be loath to place itself in a similar position, and for this reason primarily it would seem that a JF-17 buy is not likely to happen.

Bulgaria to be offered JF-17 fighter by Pakistan | IHS Jane's 360

If you want JF-17s then you may be able to get it with western NATO standard systems like Vixen-1000e AESA radar and EJ-200 engine version for JF-17s, its on customer's choice what they want and can afford.

Re-engine? Interesting!

Klimov RD-33

• Length: 4,229 mm (166.50 in)
• Diameter: 1,040 mm (40.94 in)
• Dry weight: 1,055 kg (2,326 lb)
• Maximum thrust: 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) Dry, 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) Afterburning.

Guizhou WS-13

• Length: 4.14 metres (13.6 ft)
• Diameter: 1.02 metres (3 ft 4 in)
• Dry weight: 1,135 kilograms (2,502 lb)
• Maximum thrust: 51.2 kilonewtons (11,500 lbf) dry; 86.37 kilonewtons (19,420 lbf) with afterburner

Eurojet EJ200

• 
  
• Length: 4 m (160 in)
  
• Diameter: 700 mm (28 in)
  
• Dry weight: 990 kg (2,180 lb)
  
• Maximum thrust: 60 kN (13,000 lbf) dry thrust; 90 kN (20,000 lbf) with reheat

I don't think the issue is not so much radar or engine though, but rather communications, iff, datalinks (i.e. for the purpose of interoperability)

 

[Curious_Guy]

To protect its airspace, Croatia must consider it's neighbours: Italy, Slovenia, Hungary, Serbia, Bosnia & Hercegovina and Montenegro.

Foreign Relations:

• The relations between Croatia and Italy have been largely cordial and friendly (although occasional incidents do arise on issues such as the Istrian exodus or the Ecological and Fisheries Protection Zone.) Both countries are full members of the European Union and NATO.
  
• Croatia and Slovenia have several land and maritime boundary disputes, mainly in the Gulf of Piran, regarding Slovenian access to international waters, a small number of pockets of land on the right-hand side of the river Dragonja, and around the Sveta Gera peak. Slovenia was disputing Croatia's claim to establish the Ecological and Fisheries Protection Zone, an economic section of the Adriatic. Both countries are full members of the European Union and NATO, however.
  
• The relations between Croatia and Hungary have been largely cordial and friendly. Both countries are full members of the European Union and NATO.
  
• The Danube border between Croatia and Serbia is in dispute, particularly in Baranja, the Island of Vukovar and the Island of Šarengrad. Croatia is full member of the European Union while Serbia is candidate for membership.
• The majority of the 'Yugoslav wars' were fought on Bosnia–Herzegovina territory. After the wars Bosnia and Herzegovina and Croatia retained the same border they had during SFR Yugoslavia. The two countries have several small disputed sections of the boundary (e.g. along the Una river) , the most prominent of which is the one related to maritime access(Neum, Pelješac peninsula). The ratification of the 1999 border agreement has not happened as of 2013. Both countries are full members of the Council of Europe
  
• Croatia and Montenegro have a largely latent border dispute over the Prevlaka peninsula. Croatia is full member of the European Union while Montenegro is candidate for membership. The accession of Montenegro to NATO has been in the negotiations stage as of 2010. A formal invitation was issued by the alliance on 2 December 2015, beginning the final accession talks which could be concluded by the Warsaw summit in July 2016.

Most likely conflict - if any would arise - would be with B&H, Serbia, and to a lesser extent Slovenia.

What do they all fly?
Italy: AMX International AMX, Panavia Tornado, Eurofighter Typhoon, and in future Lockheed -MartinF-35
Slovenia: Pilatus PC-9/M,
Hungary: JAS39 Gripen
Serbia: Orao, Super Galeb, Mig 21, Mig 29 (potentially still some Jastreb & Galeb)
Bosnia & Hercegovina: Jastreb, Orao, Galeb
Montenegro. Super Galeb

What does Croatia fly?
Croatia: Mig-21, PC-9

Croatia need a fighter good enough to counter Serbia's Mig 29s. Alternatives considered included Lockheed Martin's F-16, Saab's JAS-39 Gripen, France's Mirage 2000, Israeli Kfir and a version of South Korea's T-50. Leading contenders are Lockheed Martin's F-16 and Saab's JAS-39 Gripen. Personally, I think Kfir block 60 is not a bad option, it can certainly deal with Mig-21s (Serbia has only 4 Mig 29s left, probably in not too good a shape). But most likely it will be F-16 or Gripen. F-16 is most Nato compatible/furnishable, but Gripen is in service with e.g Hungary, Czech republic. Interestingly enough, both these Gripen user LEASE them (with an option to buy at the end of the lease), rather than buy, which is said to represent significant cost-savings. The NATO-compatible C/D 'Export Gripen' standard would be needed.

Slovakia is eager to lease eight to twelve SAAB JAS 39C/D Gripen aircraft for the coming 10 to 15 years.
Slovakia “wants Gripen” from 2016 | AIRheadsFLY.com

The amount mentioned above is similar to the amount the Czech payed. The lease was for 12-14 aircraft for an agreed period of 10 years at a cost of €780 million.


For Croatia, it has to be fully nato compatible.

It was offered to Bulgaria. Here is what Janes said about that:


Bulgaria to be offered JF-17 fighter by Pakistan | IHS Jane's 360


Re-engine? Interesting!

Klimov RD-33

• Length: 4,229 mm (166.50 in)
• Diameter: 1,040 mm (40.94 in)
• Dry weight: 1,055 kg (2,326 lb)
• Maximum thrust: 50.0 kN (11,230 lbf) Dry, 81.3 kN (18,285 lbf) Afterburning.

Guizhou WS-13

• Length: 4.14 metres (13.6 ft)
• Diameter: 1.02 metres (3 ft 4 in)
• Dry weight: 1,135 kilograms (2,502 lb)
• Maximum thrust: 51.2 kilonewtons (11,500 lbf) dry; 86.37 kilonewtons (19,420 lbf) with afterburner

Eurojet EJ200

• 
  
• Length: 4 m (160 in)
• Diameter: 700 mm (28 in)
• Dry weight: 990 kg (2,180 lb)
• Maximum thrust: 60 kN (13,000 lbf) dry thrust; 90 kN (20,000 lbf) with reheat

I don't think the issue is not so much radar or engine though, but rather communications, iff, datalinks (i.e. for the purpose of interoperability)

Thank you for such a detailed answer . You questioned all my questions that i asked and was about to ask .

 

[yugocrosrb95]

Is europe a market for thunder ?

JF-17 has a good chance's in Europe with one country which is Serbia and I would say Ukraine, but the issue is that JF-17 is using engine made in Russia which means Russia will veto it also there would be a lot more market for JF-17 if Pakistan/China takes the initiative and implements communications compatible with NATO standards.

If it had european engine and radar which would be a big plus in terms of politics and confidence, but primarily communications need to be NATO compatible.

China/Pakistan can sell JF-17 to Ukraine, use Chinese or European engine.

Maybe Ireland would buy it too since they aren't in NATO and JF-17 doesn't have any connection with UK and if just China wasn't such a wuss and actually sold JF-17 with anti-ship missile and give a whopping to imperialist British bastards.

Croatia can put RFI about JF-17s.

If you want to participate then you need to make the initiative...

Croatia even considered Eurofighter Typhoon before economic collapse of 2008.

 

[Curious_Guy]

JF-17 has a good chance's in Europe with one country which is Serbia and I would say Ukraine, but the issue is that JF-17 is using engine made in Russia which means Russia will veto it also there would be a lot more market for JF-17 if Pakistan/China takes the initiative and implements communications compatible with NATO standards.

If it had european engine and radar which would be a big plus in terms of politics and confidence, but primarily communications need to be NATO compatible.

China/Pakistan can sell JF-17 to Ukraine, use Chinese or European engine.

Maybe Ireland would buy it too since they aren't in NATO and JF-17 doesn't have any connection with UK and if just China wasn't such a wuss and actually sold JF-17 with anti-ship missile and give a whopping to imperialist British bastards.



If you want to participate then you need to make the initiative...

Croatia even considered Eurofighter Typhoon before economic collapse of 2008.

I think Pakistan currently need to market Thunder in Asia and Africa & then think about Europe .

 

[yugocrosrb95]

I think Pakistan currently need to market Thunder in Asia and Africa & then think about Europe .

You can do that or sell it to Serbia and Ireland to increase interest of African and Asian countries because:
"Look, we sold JF-17 to couple of European countries..."

If Europeans think it is good enough, then it must be great for us in Africa/Asia.