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Girls arrested for removing Hijab during sports event in Iran (Shiraz city)

don't change history the black chadore become mainstream at the middle of qajar

That's two centuries ago so my statement was accurate and it did not revise anything. Moreover the black chador was worn before as well (debating how mainstream it used to be then won't change the fact).

and for Iran traditional appeal go and look at iranian tribes like , kurd, lors , Bakhtiary ,gilak , Mazandaranian , Tats , baluch , then come and we talk.

Townsfolk in central Iran and other large cities donned a different style of garments. Urbanization cemented the dominance of the black chador even more.

that black clothes was like a stab in the back of all workers who were working in Iranian textile industry to fatten the pocket of several traitorous merchant

Clothes of every colors are imported nowadays, not just black ones. Also there's no inherent obstacle for local producers of colored textiles to switch to black gear. So the contention is moot.

and please don't say we wore black clothes in mourning so it was worn in Iran for centuries.

It's simply true that black chadors have been worn for centuries in Iran, including in times when no textiles were imported.
 
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Townsfolk in central Iran and other large cities donned a different style of garments. Urbanization cemented the dominance of the black chador even more.
sure I see hoe prevalent black clothes was
Iranian-Traditional-Clothing-1-1.jpg

southern Zagross Area
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Northern Zagross Area
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Gilan
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North-Eastern Iran
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South-Eastern Iran
Balooch-Traditional-Clothing-min.jpg

Persian Gulf Area
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Kerman Area
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Central Iran
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Qazvin
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Turkeman
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and at last Arabs of Iran
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sorry I could not stop posting the last one after your second post:devil::-)

That's two centuries ago so my statement was accurate and it did not revise anything. Moreover the black chador was worn before as well (debating how mainstream it used to be then won't change the fact).
yeah you answered yourself, right now some people wear niqab , wonder if you go and say Iranian woman wear niqab
Clothes of every colors are imported nowadays, not just black ones. Also there's no inherent obstacle for local producers of colored textiles to switch to black gear. So the contention is moot.
if its suit you . but you very well knew why that black chador fiasco was a stab in the back of Iran textile industry and no we produce all colored textile , when it come to black ,we import it from S.Korea and japan and you well knew how much is worth of our textile industry is and how much of it is lost because some people want to make job for Korean and Japanese worker instead of Iranian workers
and how much honest you were when you stated colorful clothes come to Iran from west ?
It's simply true that black chadors have been worn for centuries in Iran, including in times when no textiles were imported.
not prevalent and in certain ceremonies these were the prevalent color till it become norm in qajar to use black one in big city not to forget that later againafter Qajar it become Chador Goli
iu


and as it was problematic to use Iranian made black textile , they later began to import it (not at Qajar era , later when it was advertised and made in some case mandatory) and that was like an arrow specifically designed to destroy iran textile industry

Not a defence/strategic affairs topic so moved.
My own opinion the hijab worn by Iranian women is very nice.
I think more appropriate place would have been middle-east section not central and south Asia but you probably knew better
 
The fact that Iran and Saudi are the two competitors for leader of the Muslim world must be very depressing for Muslims.

The Iranians will never be the leader of the Muslim world and the majority of the Muslim world is sunni and Iran is shia. I don't think in this age of nation states any Muslim country will be the leader because leader country will always put it's interest first and that would create displeasure within other Muslim countries leading to the demise of the leader.
 
Like the french, Iranians also taking it to extreme and arresting women. Chador should be encouraged but not forced IMO.
 
sure I see hoe prevalent black clothes was

southern Zagross Area
Northern Zagross Area
Gilan
North-Eastern Iran
South-Eastern Iran
Persian Gulf Area
Kerman Area
Central Iran
Qazvin
Turkeman

Clothing styles seen in these photographs are practiced by just a fraction of Iran's female population, restricted to rural areas only. It therefore confirms my statement, if anything.

Meanwhile, a few photographs of how countless Iranian women used to dress about a hundred years ago:

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images

5abf214e7cbeebdd49dfbaaffbfc34f9--photographs-iran.jpg

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and at last Arabs of Iran
main-qimg-76dd9fda0f692b9461fe2025b59fa99d-lq

sorry I could not stop posting the last one after your second post:devil::-)

I don't get the relation to my comment. If you're having issues with Arabic-speakers, I'd recommend solving them.

yeah you answered yourself, right now some people wear niqab , wonder if you go and say Iranian woman wear niqab

The fact remains that black chadors have been worn by female Iranians for numerous centuries. They were always more widespread than niqabs.

if its suit you . but you very well knew why that black chador fiasco was a stab in the back of Iran textile industry and no we produce all colored textile , when it come to black ,we import it from S.Korea and japan and you well knew how much is worth of our textile industry is and how much of it is lost because some people want to make job for Korean and Japanese worker instead of Iranian workers
and how much honest you were when you stated colorful clothes come to Iran from west ?

What stab in the back? Local producers could very well have switched to coloring their products in black. Nothing was / is preventing them from doing so.

Of course Iran imports colorful garments too. I mean, it's not as if Iran has a worldwide monopoly on producing them, nor as if Iran is structurally incapable of manufacturing black textiles just as well.

not prevalent and in certain ceremonies these were the prevalent color till it become norm in qajar to use black one in big city not to forget that later againafter Qajar it become Chador Goli
iu

Use of the black chador by female Iranians stretches back numerous centuries. While its prevalence may have varied somewhat depending on the historical period considered, it has been widespread enough throughout time.

There's no obstacle at all for the Iranian textile industry in producing black gear. After all Iranians aren't genetically or otherwise predisposed to having particular difficulties at manufacturing a commodity on grounds that it's black rather than colored.

and as it was problematic to use Iranian made black textile , they later began to import it (not at Qajar era , later when it was advertised and made in some case mandatory) and that was like an arrow specifically designed to destroy iran textile industry

There's no problem with domestically made black textiles. As for the funny conspiracy theory that religious institutions in Iran deliberately aimed at destroying the national textile industry, I doubt it deserves a serious reply.

Furthermore, it's liberals who openly advocate de-industrialization of Iran. And liberals happen to be secularists ie everything but fervent proponents of strict religious regulations in the public space. A leading reformist figure like Zibakalam is on the record for stating that Iran "has no right" to produce anything domestically if the product fails at being internationally competitive, and that he is sick of being offered "Iranian trash" (ashghale Irani).

So for supporters of the reformists, it would make slightly more sense to celebrate the decline of Iran's textile industry rather than to try and put a spin on the topic in hopes of landing some sort of a jab against the clergy.

I think more appropriate place would have been middle-east section not central and south Asia but you probably knew better

I didn't start this thread, hence I'm not sure what the section it was posted in has to do with me.

_____

Now since history was evoked, readers should note the idea that prevalence of the black chador is a relatively recent phenomenon is not accurate. For truth is that as far back as the 10th century AD under the authority of the Deylamites (a whopping thousand years ago), black clothes were compulsory upon female Iranians, who moreover were allowed to go out during daytime. What is more, some scholars believe these rules represented a continuation of pre-Islamic customs. In other words, black dress for women indeed has a long history in Iran.

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Source: https://www.iranicaonline.org/artic...covering-the-body-sometimes-also-the-face#pt3
 
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yes mid to late Qajar era in Tehran
The fact remains that black chadors have been worn by female Iranians for numerous centuries. They were always more widespread than niqabs.
no only mid to late qajar era
What stab in the back? Local producers could very well have switched to coloring their products in black. Nothing was / is preventing them from doing so.

Of course Iran imports colorful garments too. I mean, it's not as if Iran has a worldwide monopoly on producing them, nor as if Iran is structurally incapable of manufacturing black textiles just as well.
so you don't knew why nobody want local black textile for chador , we simply don't knew how to paint it black so it remain black , it turn to red under the sun .
but we don't have such problem with other color
Use of the black chador by female Iranians stretches back numerous centuries. While its prevalence may have varied somewhat depending on the historical period considered, it has been widespread enough throughout time.

There's no obstacle at all for the Iranian textile industry in producing black gear. After all Iranians aren't genetically or otherwise predisposed to having particular difficulties at manufacturing a commodity on grounds that it's black rather than colored.
as i said , we don't knew the trade secret , to produce black pigment that don't change color. and after the revolution and emphasis on black chador compared to our traditional colorful ones , it was a heaven for some corrupt merchant who imported the textile from S.Korea and Japan and stab in the back of our workers.
There's no problem with domestically made black textiles. As for the funny conspiracy theory that religious institutions in Iran deliberately aimed at destroying the national textile industry, I doubt it deserves a serious reply.
so you don't knew the problem with iran black textile , for the third time it change to a red shine under the sun

if you want to talk about encyclopedia iraniaca ,well let just say that part about before islam is only related to nobility and kings family ,and also these are again part of the article that you forget to put here
The 13th/19th-century čādor was commonly made out of either satin or wool, dyed indigo-blue (Polak, I, p. 161).

This form of čādor remained standard outdoor wear for women until prohibited by Reżā Shah on 17 Dey 1315 S./7 January 1936. Government officials whose wives were known to be wearing the čādor were dismissed, and women who refused to bare their heads were denied entrance to public places (Wilber, p. 174) and often harassed by the police.

by the way before urbanization of Iran what percent of people lived in cities and what in tribes and villages

پوشش زنان عصر صفوی​

از دوره صفویه کمکم حضور جهانگردان در ایران زیاد شد. این جهانگردان در سفرنامه های خود توصیفات جالبی از زنان ایرانی دارند. مثلا کلاویخو جهانگرد اسپانیایی در سفرنامه اش می نویسد: زنهای شهری معمولا روی پوشیده اند
و عجب آنکه چادر سفید داشته اند و نقاب سیاه؛ واقعا مثل ماه، زیر میغ (ابر) رفته اند.
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ژان شاردن (جهانگرد و فیلسوف فرانسوی) : پوشش سر زنان، چارقد سفیدی است که تا سر شانه میرسد و چادر سفید بلندی که فقط چشم ها از پشت آن پیداست و جلو صورت را با پارچه مُشبّک دست باف یا توری میبندند. در منزل هم زنان سر خود را میپوشانند و تا روی سینه آنها پوشیده است. مشکل میتوان تشخیص داد که بانوان آریایی برای آزرم و عفت یا به منظور افتخار و عزت یا غرور و تکبر به سوی حجاب میروند.​
 
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Now this is entering the realm of comedy. It was and is in fully withing Iran's reach to develop adequate pigments for clothing, as this isn't too complex a process at all.

Also, many millions of female Iranians were donning black chadors prior to the Islamic Revolution as well.
Go research it and you see what is comedy and what is not.

I disproved your claim about the prevalence of black wear having started in the Qajar era: female black dress has a very long history in Iran, under the Deylamites it was even compulsory for all. I am sure there are many other examples throughout Iranian history.
add some extra content to the previous post about clothes in Safavid era look at them please

It's not relevant anymore. Your contention was proven wrong, a thousand years ago every female Iranian wore a black dress and this rule was set by the Deylamites, who were "ethno"-linguistically Iranian not Arab.
first deylamian was not every female iranian so don't mix it
 
Just a way to create more atheists.
Iran already has the highest percentage in the region.
 
by the way I used some free AI to colorize those black and white photos (sorry for full size photo they ask for money)
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not ideal but you clearly can see the red tint I mentioned

when I say stab in the back I mean stab in the back
محمدعلی شفیعی مدیرعامل شرکت نای زرین نیز در ارتباط با این برنامه گفت: در سال 85 آخرین نوع ماشین‌های کِرِپ را وارد و چادر مشکی کلاسیک کرپ تولید کردیم.

وی ابراز کرد: در سال 85 کارشناسان کره‌ای فناوری تولید چادر مشکی را به ما انتقال دادند و خط تولید این محصول را کامل وارد کردیم.
شفیعی گفت: در یک سالی که کارشناسان کره‌ای در کشورمان بودند؛ تحت لیسانس آنها کار می‌کردیم و با برندهایی که داشتیم اقدام به فروش محصولاتمان می‌کردیم اما پس از یک سال مدیرکل صنایع وزارت صنعت از کارخانه ما بازدید کرد و پس از آن نیز استاندار اصفهان به کارخانه ما آمد و با رسانه‌ای شدن تولید این کارخانه کمتر از بیست روز تعرفه واردات چادر مشکی از 72 درصد به 66 و از 66 به 16 درصد کاهش یافت.
وی افزود: در آن زمان از همه کمک خواستیم و به همه جا نامه نوشتیم اما نتیجه‌ای نگرفتیم.
مجید افتخاری عضو هیأت مدیره اتحادیه صنف فروشندگان و تولید کنندگان پوشاک نیز در این برنامه گفت: قیمت هر متر پارچه چادر مشکی که در کشورهای کره، ژاپن و چین تولید می‌شود بین یک و نیم تا پنج دلار است.
وی اظهار کرد: اگر میانگین برای یک قواره چادری سه و نیم متر پارچه مصرف شود مشخص است واردکنندگان چادر با قیمتی که در بازار برای پارچه درجه‌یک وجود دارد سود 400 تا 500 درصدی دارند.
افتخاری خاطرنشان کرد: واردکننده چادر مشکی با سرمایه گذاری کوتاه‌مدت در دو سه ماه به این سود می‌رسد و با این سود دیگر کسی به تولید داخلی توجه نمی‌کند.
 
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It won't work for long in this evolving era of internet and smartphones. It's no longer the same old Iran where mullahs faced no resistance. The global culture has already penetrated borders of iran.
 
yes mid to late Qajar era in Tehran

There are earlier examples alright. However photo cameras hadn't been invented yet.

no only mid to late qajar era

No, much earlier and generalized across society too.

so you don't knew why nobody want local black textile for chador , we simply don't knew how to paint it black so it remain black , it turn to red under the sun .
but we don't have such problem with other colors
as i said , we don't knew the trade secret , to produce black pigment that don't change color. and after the revolution and emphasis on black chador compared to our traditional colorful ones , it was a heaven for some corrupt merchant who imported the textile from S.Korea and Japan and stab in the back of our workers.
so you don't knew the problem with iran black textile , for the third time it change to a red shine under the sun

Now this is entering the realm of comedy. It was and is fully within Iran's reach to develop adequate pigments for clothing fabrics, since this isn't too complex a process for Iran.

Also, millions of female Iranians were donning black chadors prior to the Islamic Revolution already. So either Iranian textile manufacturers all of a sudden lost a most basic know how pertaining to their craft, whch is nonsense, or it wasn't under the Islamic Republic that the importation of black chadors was initiated.

if you want to talk about encyclopedia iraniaca ,well let just say that part about before islam is only related to nobility and kings family ,and also these are again part of the article that you forget to put here

I disproved the claim that mainly black female wear has its roots in the mid-Qajar era: such female dress has a long history in Iran, under the Deylamites it was even compulsory for every woman. I am sure there are many other examples throughout Iranian history.

by the way before urbanization of Iran what percent of people lived in cities and what in tribes and village

That's no longer relevant. The basic contention was proven wrong given how a thousand years ago every female Deylami wore nothing but black dress, and this rule was set by the Deylamites, who happened to have been "ethno"-linguistically Iranian and not Arab.
 
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add some extra content to the previous post about clothes in Safavid era look at them please

There was black dress for females in Iran more than half a millennium earlier.

It's documented for the Zandiye period as well:


first deylamian was not every female iranian so don't mix it

Every female Iranian in Deylam indeed. Which is far from negligible already, since this is traditionally the most densely populated region of Iran (superseded today only by the likes of Alborz and Tehran for obvious reasons).

by the way I used some free AI to colorize those black and white photos (sorry for full size photo they ask for money)
View attachment 857191View attachment 857192View attachment 857194View attachment 857196View attachment 857197View attachment 857198View attachment 857199
not ideal but you clearly can see the red tint I mentioned

Firstly, it stands to debate as to how accurate these renderings really are. Some of the ladies' skin color in the penultimate photograph for example is anything but real. While in the second, white shawls turn yellow. So chances are that those blueish or reddish chadors may have been black in reality.

Secondly, even if accurate, how is this colorful in any shape or form? These are clearly dark, not particularly colorful garments.



when I say stab in the back I mean stab in the back

They're giving a variety of reasons as to why domestic production isn't covering the demand, but none of it amounts to deliberate backstabbing by religious institutions. As for merchants, they will do what merchants do and will try to advance their interests, which conflict with those of local producers. Self-sufficiency is achieved step by step, there's nothing abnormal about the fact that the process isn't fully completed yet.

Also textile producers themselves aren't exempt of responsibility, it is and was also up to them to acquire the required tools and to boost their output. The IRNA paper is stressing how government authorities are endeavoring to encourage production of black fabric inside Iran. It confirms that technically, this is well within Iran's capabilities, as I've been indicating all along.

_____

Just a way to create more atheists.
Iran already has the highest percentage in the region.

Iran has the most religious population in the world according to studies.
 
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