Gilgit as a fifth province

[Green Arrow]

@WAJsal I been to GB and really amazed to see the amount of resources/beauty of that area. Making GB a fifth province of Pakistan will definitely up left the living standard of the people from that area. We kept GB as it is from the last 67 years and can not keep like this in next 67 years.

 

[WAJsal]

@WAJsal I been to GB and really amazed to see the amount of resources/beauty of that area.

It's time we start using those resources to it's utmost and help this country in the bigger picture .
True ,

We kept GB as it is from the last 67 years and can not keep like this in next 67 years.

depriving people of their basic human rights was and is completely wrong . We can't continue like this , if we are to ever "change ".

 

[Green Arrow]

It's time we start using those resources to it's utmost and help this country in the bigger picture .
True ,
Agreed. Generating electricity, tourism etc.

depriving people of their basic human rights was and is completely wrong . We can't continue like this , if we are to ever "change ".

Therefore i am in favor of making GB a province. I know it might weak our case regarding Kashmir but we all know that GB is non negotiable/non compromise able and there is no chance of losing it.

 

[Wolfhound]

Therefore i am in favor of making GB a province. I know it might weak our case regarding Kashmir but we all know that GB is non negotiable/non compromise able and there is no chance of losing it.

Even if there is a chance we should still make it a state like india has. I would love to see my GB getting better admistration and development.

 

[ares]

GB has nothing to do with J and K .
A piece of advice read what i had posted before replying . Would help clear things up .

Actually it has, for UN recognises GB as a part of J&K..named as northern areas in UN resolutions.

As soon as Pakistan declares GB a province/as an integral of Pakistan. Pakistan's stand on J&k (that entire J&K is disputed territory) becomes null and void.

 

[WAJsal]

Actually it has, for UN recognises GB as a part of J&K..named as northern areas in UN resolutions.

No i meant what the people think in that region .

As soon as Pakistan declares GB a province/as an integral of Pakistan. Pakistan's stand on J&k (that entire J&K is disputed territory) becomes null and void.

Special status works too .

 

[Retd. Irshad Hassan]

Gilgit Baltistan indeed needs to be classified as a separate province. Clubbing it within Fedral autonomy or any adjacent area is unjust to the people of GB. Also this step might contribute positively towards development and further expansion of tourism industry of the stunning area our country is blessed with.

 

[krash]

I would i like to ask my PDF brothers on what they think about Gilgit-Baltistan as a fifth province of Pakistan ? now before answering be aware of the facts , so read first then answer .


When we talk about Gilgit , we talk about how love of Pakistan within the people of region drove them to fight for their freedom . The people of Gilgit-Baltistan got freedom from the Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir on November 1, 1947 through their own resources, they established a new state of their own, Raja Shah Rais Khan became the President while Mirza Hassan Khan the Commander-in-Chief of the Gilgit scouts. The region had run its own government for 15 days and then offered Pakistan to take over the administration and to give the inhabitants citizenship and other human rights.



Now we also know that people of this region have always contributed to Pakistan army immensely and many brave soldiers laid down their lives for our dear country .In the four wars that Pakistan has fought with India, some of the best soldiers in Pakistan Army were from Gilgit-Baltistan. They fought for the country despite knowing their constitutional status. For them, passports and ID cards were just pieces of paper. A major part of the forces that defended Azad Jammu and Kashmir in 1948 was from Gilgit-Baltistan. Ironically, Azad Kashmir has enjoyed a status of a semi state for decades and Gilgit-Baltistan, then Northern Areas of Pakistan, suffered with an identity crisis for decades.

There is no one who can deny the Pakistaniat of our brothers from Gilgit-Baltistan. They have tremendous love for their country and in many aspects can teach the rest of Pakistan what it means to be a Pakistani.

The Kargil War is also an evidence of the love of the people of the region with Pakistan. In 1999, hundreds of soldiers of the Northern Light Infantry sacrificed their lives and fought in extreme conditions to capture Kargil, but they were labeled militants and mujahideen. They stood by their country despite being disowned. Lalak Jan, who fought with extraordinary valor in Kargil and was awarded Pakistan's highest military honor Nishan-e-Haider, was from Gilgit-Baltistan.

I just want to clarify for the reader that WAJsal here did not mean that Pakistan does not value the lives of their Gilgiti and Balti citizens and hence just used them as cannon fodder in Kargil but that these Gilgiti and Balti citizens' love for the country is such that they willingly jumped into the fire knowing that they may well never return or be credited for it. That their love for Pakistan is not shy of anyone else's.

ps: There were soldiers from other parts of the country as well who fought in Kargil under the same conditions e.g. Karnal Sher Khan, another Nishan-e-Haider winner, who hailed from Swabi, KPK. The disassociation from the "fighters" was a political move by the then authorities to ward off international pressure.

What seems to be issue at hand from which many Pakistanis are unaware of is that people of Gilgit-Baltistan don’t share the same voting-rights as the rest of the country , G-B has no candidate to represent them into National assembly or the Senate . The region does not shares the administrative status like the one FATA or Azad Kashmir have .People of this strategically important “province” consider themselves patriotic Pakistanis and have given historic sacrifices for the country. But, unfortunately, they’ve not been given equal rights of citizenship so far as people of other provinces enjoy under the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.


Despite Gilgit-Baltistan being treated as a separate administrative unit, it does not enjoy the same constitutional rights as those granted to the other provinces. Important differences are as follows:

• No seats are allowed in the National Assembly or the Senate.
  
  
• Gilgit-Baltistan Council is chaired by the Prime Minster of Pakistan and not by a local representative. Therefore, real authority still lies with the Council rather than the elected representatives in the Assembly.
  
  
• Similarly, the Governor is appointed by the President on the advice of the Prime Minister.
  
  
• No seats are allowed in the institutions that contribute towards effective coordination and cooperation between the federation and provinces/other units e.g. National Economic Council, National Finance Commission and Council of Common Interests.
  
  
• No representation is given in the Indus River System Authority (IRSA).
  
  
• No share of profits, from the income of hydroelectric power stations located in Gilgit-Baltistan, is granted to the region itself.

Contrast with other regions
Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) sends its own representatives to both the Senate and the National Assembly, where special seats are reserved for them. In fact, the number of seats FATA is allowed in the Parliament is much higher than any other parts of Pakistan, when compared in terms of population size.

Azad Jammu and Kashmir (AJK) has an autonomous government with its own temporary constitution enacted by its Legislative Assembly in 1974, a legislature and even a Supreme Court. This system is expected to last until a decision is reached by the UN regarding a resolution to the Kashmir dispute.

The Order shows that the administrative approach adopted towards Gilgit-Baltistan is not only different from the four directly ruled provinces, but that it is also different from other indirectly- ruled areas such as FATA and Azad Jammu and Kashmir.

It’s been more than 65 years and yet people of Gilgit cannot cast votes and cannot help the country in the larger picture , in terms of who gets to make a government or who doesn’t .


Many people would come up with an argument that Legislative assembly takes care of the affairs in the region , that is wrong . The legislative assembly is a dummy house and has no power of whatsoever . The main affairs are controlled by the Center and it is quite visible .


How can anyone justify not giving rights to vote to over 1.5 million people in Gilgit-Baltistan ; a Gilgiti cannot become MP , Chief secretary , army or police chief , why is this ? can we not be trusted or something ? are we not Pakistanis enough ?Sorry , just some hard truth in it all . All this situation tells you how incompetent governments have been . No one seems to be talking about the problems of the region , no one has really addressed the problems of this region . Instead of making all these stupid promises , why not work for the betterment of the region . It is essential that the legislators, think tanks and policy makers in Pakistan resolve this issue on a priority basis, before there is a sense of deprivation in the region . Gilgit is a part of Pakistan but it’s not a part of Pakistan , if you think about it , how stupid is that ?



Now strategically the region is very important , all these economic corridors and pass through this region . And the region itself is very rich in natural resources , with a huge potential of Hydroelectricity , which can end the electricity shortage in the country .It links Pakistan to China , etc , etc .


The poor people of Gilgit-Baltistan should not be deprived of their constitutional rights anymore. The must be an active part of the national mainstream. They should be given representation in the Pakistani Parliament. This will give a positive message to other parts of the confederation and the outside world. We have associated Gilgit with Kashmir issue too long , regardless of what the people in that region want . As a Gilgiti i would love to see Gilgitis participating in general elections and be given similar rights compared to the rest of the country . We can’t drag things for too long , sooner or later , things can and might turn ugly .

@Donatello

Before I give my take on the matter I must clarify a few things which might have been misconstrued by the readers;

It is not as much that the people of GB don't hold rights like Pakistanis from other regions but that the region of GB does not hold rights like the other regions of Pakistan which then translates into people living in GB not being able to exercise their constitutional rights. I'll explain. A Gilgiti or a Balti can purchase/sell land in any of the 4 provinces, he can vote from there, contest elections from there and be elected MP, Chief Secretary, etc. from there. However he (or any other Pakistani for that matter) cannot contest elections from GB in the general elections because it has no representation.

GB is essentially being run under the draconian colonial rule mechanisms left by the British (minus the few government subsidies and the duty exemptions). Colonial rule over a region which is not a colony but an integral part of Pakistan Proper, who's citizens are not foreigners but Pakistani nationals. Despite all the corruption and malice exhibited by the previous governments in every affair of the country I do not believe the GB predicament to be out of design but out of sheer and utter stupidity born out of complete ignorance and lack political gains for the political parties.

Before we go any further we first need to realize that GB cannot be assimilated politically into Pakistan Proper without severely damaging Pakistan's case on the whole Kashmir dispute issue. The reasons for this are the UN's resolution on the disputed territories. One way around it suggested by some is to disassociate GB from the rest of Kashmir (which it, in all ways but one, always has been).But Pakistan's claim on Kashmir and GB has always been based on the clause pertaining to princely states of the Indian Independence Act of 1947 by which the rulers of the respective princely states must acknowledge accession to either party acting on the wishes of the majority of their population. But this act applies to GB and Kashmir as one princely state, as was the case in 1947, not separately. Thus if Pakistan unilaterally recognizes GB as a separate political entity a la 1947 it by default makes defunct the princely state clause of the independence act on its behalf and thus in result destroys its own claim on all of Kashmir (and GB too) without hurting India's claim. Pakistan has tried to internationally recognize GB as a separate entity than Kashmir in the dispute but that has remained futile due to 1) the original case presented at the UN, as explained above and 2) India's objections in light of the original case. I believe this to also be a reason why Pakistan did not originally grant GB a sub-state status like AJK i.e. not fully recognize GB as part of the original dispute and try to somehow wrestle it away through smart tactics and diplomacy. Alas that hasn't even been close and so GB got stuck between a rock and a hard place where it can't be made a province and wasn't made a sub-state in hopes to be made a province.

All that I said above does not in any shape or form absolve the Pakistani authorities of the gross negligence they have shown towards GB since the beginning. Musharraf was the only man who tried to do something about the apprehensions of our Northern Pakistanis. His plan, at least on paper, sought to slowly transition control and governance to the local people and making GB a quasi-province. That is when the Federally Administrated Northern Areas (FANA) became Gilgit-Baltistan. But then came the PPP with Zardari and where does one start with their utter treason towards the country. Anyway, I believe Musharraf was on the right track. The governing system of the provinces should be mirrored in GB but with more self autonomy as in the case with AJK. Defence, foreign policy and currency would be handled by the centre while everything else would be left for the locally elected bodies to govern. The "minister" (or Lord Commander of GB I hope) will be directly reporting to the PM but both their election would be disjoint i.e. GB would still have no say in the national assembly while the centre will not get to appoint people for GB, a locally elected governor so to speak. This will allow the centre to undergo projects of national interest (dams, etc.) while paying duties and share to GB and on the other hand GB would not only get to rule itself with its own state ministries and institutions but will also have rights to the federation that of any other province while still not being a province.

The above paragraph is my own humble opinion which I've reached after a lot of time thinking about this. I am not a political science, international relations or governance major and won't be surprised if all that I said was complete nonsense. I love Gilgit-Baltistan and its people for very personal reasons and pray that the day that GB gains its rightful place in this country is very very soon, God knows that they deserve it more than the others.

 

[WAJsal]

I just want to clarify for the reader that WAJsal here did not mean that Pakistan does not value the lives of their Gilgiti and Balti citizens and hence just used them as cannon fodder in Kargil but that these Gilgiti and Balti citizens' love for the country is such that they willingly jumped into the fire knowing that they may well never return or be credited for it. That their love for Pakistan is not shy of anyone else's.

Thank you for the clarification .

ps: There were soldiers from other parts of the country as well who fought in Kargil under the same conditions e.g. Karnal Sher Khan, another Nishan-e-Haider winner, who hailed from Swabi, KPK. The disassociation from the "fighters" was a political move by the then authorities to ward off international pressure.

I meant in the context that GBians are willing to do anything to protect this country .

 

[BetterPakistan]

Agree with the title.

FATA and Gilgit-Baltistan should be declared as Pakistan 5th and sixth province. Both should have its own provincial legislative assemblies and Gilgit-Baltistan should also get its share in National Assembly. Its time to move on.

 

[war&peace]

Agree with the title.

FATA and Gilgit-Baltistan should be declared as Pakistan 5th and sixth province. Both should have its own provincial legislative assemblies and Gilgit-Baltistan should also get its share in National Assembly. Its time to move on.

Has it not been done already? I mean it was made the fifth province of Pakistan. @WAJsal can you kindly throw some light on the current status...since I believe that it has been already solved by declaring it 5th province as OP was created two years ago.

 

[nangyale]

I agree Gilgit should be fully represented in Pakistani national assembly and senate.

Although turning FATA into a province doesn't make sense, both geographically and administratively. It should be merged with K.Pakhtoonkhwa instead.

Agree with the title.

FATA and Gilgit-Baltistan should be declared as Pakistan 5th and sixth province. Both should have its own provincial legislative assemblies and Gilgit-Baltistan should also get its share in National Assembly. Its time to move on.

 

[Yeezy]

GB, Hazara, Karachi and Seraiki region all need to be given provincial status.

 

[dadeechi]

Is there a serious proposal on the table?

 

[Kambojaric]

I support the creation of GB as a province definitely, but wonder what the reaction would be in AJK. They seem to be strongly opposed to the idea of GB becoming a province separate from them. Any members wanna shed some light on Muzzafarabads reaction to a hypothetical province of GB?