Getting religion in our bloodstream By Ayesha Siddiqa

[Icarus]

Those are programs to help small firms get Armed Forces business and thus develop, not the Armed Forces in business for themselves.

So what do you think, that Army officers wearing their uniforms sit in Askari banks and Fauji Foundation hospitals ?
These ventures are invested in by the military however they are purely civilian concerns.
The Armed Forces are not "in business for themselves".

 

[Icarus]

Oh yeah? The ISI will never fail? Just look at you and what the world feels about Pakistan. All thanks to guys like you and the ISI - the so called 'keepers' of Islam! They've screwed up real bad and that's why you are where you are - a sinking economy with a 1.2% growth rate, the percentage of poor going up by the day, little or no health care, lack of any policy for education, lack of industrialization, inflation going through the roof, little or no foreign direct investments, electricity generation falling apart, rise of extremism, and lesser food on the table for the poor and lower middle class!

And you say the ISI will never fail? What have they done to succeed? They, the PA and a lame duck government have failed to deliver. Nuff said!

The Economy is not the ISI's or the Military's concern genius.
Which was exactly the case with India in the 60s, 70s and 80s, can we relate that to RAW somehow ?
Uptil 2007, things were fine and dandy and we were the second fastest growing economy in the world. Every country goes through difficult times. These are our difficult times, and we are fighting. Write it down. we will come out on top and when we do, we'll just dust ourselves and start again on the road to progress.
Nuff Said........

 

[VCheng]

So what do you think, that Army officers wearing their uniforms sit in Askari banks and Fauji Foundation hospitals ?
These ventures are invested in by the military however they are purely civilian concerns.
The Armed Forces are not "in business for themselves".

Their investment and overall control means "in business for themselves", in competition with civilian concerns with unfair advantages on their side, thereby providing rich incentives for corruption of purpose.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

EPIC[,,,,,

the penny drops finally (I think)

 

[Irfan Baloch]

what Ayesha Saddique really intended to say was (according to her) that Pakistani Establishment has adopted some sort of strategy of rehabilitation of the "militants" in Punjab (settled or near settled areas), unchecked and the government is giving them public sector and private sector jobs....

so she has expressed her fear that the Deobandi sect would take over the Barelvi Sect, would eventually turn Punjab into a militant hub...which then in turn radicalise the society...

hence a comprehensive strategy and plan should be laidout, making sure this doesnot happen...

AND
most imporantly
she keeps her job

 

[*Awan*]

Oh yeah? The ISI will never fail? Just look at you and what the world feels about Pakistan. All thanks to guys like you and the ISI - the so called 'keepers' of Islam! They've screwed up real bad and that's why you are where you are - a sinking economy with a 1.2% growth rate, the percentage of poor going up by the day, little or no health care, lack of any policy for education, lack of industrialization, inflation going through the roof, little or no foreign direct investments, electricity generation falling apart, rise of extremism, and lesser food on the table for the poor and lower middle class!

And you say the ISI will never fail? What have they done to succeed? They, the PA and a lame duck government have failed to deliver. Nuff said!

lol

now our enemies will dictate us what is good for us and what is bad us.
from when exactly the economy and availability of basic facilities becomes the head ache of secret services.

 

[Slides]

And you are in denial because?

You made the accusation. You provide the source. Otherwise, its just "gossip" from your end. And we all know how good Pakistanis are peddling gossip, half truths and conspiracy theories.

 

[Icarus]

Their investment and overall control means "in business for themselves", in competition with civilian concerns with unfair advantages on their side, thereby providing rich incentives for corruption of purpose.

It also provides a source of employment for thousands, jobs for retired Army men, millions of dollars in foreign investment, help balance the GDP to debt ratio and are the single largest source of income for Pakistan in the form of tax. Army has no direct involvement in these ventures, instead retired men and civilian professionals are hired to manage these concerns. In my opinion, the benefits greatly outweigh the risks, if any.............

These concerns have no unfair advantage, in fact, if anything, other companies have an unfair advantage because they get off tax free whereas as all the military concerns pay tax regularly.

 

[jeypore]

TaimiKhan

Nops, the funds being generated by these business are not channeled into the military budget. A billion or 2 Billion Rupees a year is not gonna be of any significant help to the military.

First of all, I for one have a hard time believing that they are generating annually, measly 2 billion Rupees a year to take care of the old folks.....

Do google about Fauji Foundation, its a charitable organization, thus its purpose is very much clear. It gives employment to retired military personnel of all ranks, scholarships to the children of retired military as well as civilian personnel, runs hospitals to look after retired military personnel, runs schools, technical schools and other stuff. All these charitable things are funded by the companies the foundation is running. These companies employ much more civilian personnel compared to retired military personnel. Generates hundreds of millions of rupees in taxes, levies and duties for the govt. Gives jobs to thousands of people and generates lot of economic activity.

" Fauji Foundation, holding entity of the Fauji Group of Companies, which was established in 1954 as a charitable trust, has grown to become one of the largest, autonomous business conglomerates in the country. Profits from these ventures are channelled into social protection programs that serve a beneficiary population, representing 5.7% of the country’s population, on a completely self sustaining basis. "

Fauji Foundation

Regarding Fauji Foundation, it's sounds Oriental, anyways you are probably correct in your assessment, but clearly you are not telling me that Fauji Foundation is controlling whole of ISI/military commericial organization because it sound like that from you.....This is small part that has been sold to Fauji Corp. and you are showing data on this... By the way, the link you provided above for me did not open....

These business adventures do not give the military any power nor it makes them self sustaining, the purpose is entirely different.

What I think, My personal opinion only, is that, because Pakistan is struggling interms of financial means, ISI/military is selling off the least important component to private organization to raise funds...

 

[jeypore]

We have IB for that purposes. Plus ISI does have lot of civilian population

I do not know what IB means????

Regarding ISI having lots of Civilians population was not my question. My question was very clear in this form, that ISI, as an organization has to be accountable to democractic enviroment. Last that I know off, Pakistan is a Democractic country and not a Anarchy...... Right....

So Why not make ISI a Civilian organization?

 

[Zarvan]

Then why does your flag have a white stripe on it?

Because we give minorities those rights which Islam Allows

 

[TaimiKhan]

TaimiKhan

First of all, I for one have a hard time believing that they are generating annually, measly 2 billion Rupees a year to take care of the old folks.....

I meant the figure left after all the expenses, and the expenses consists of the amount spend on these charitable causes. Whatever is left is forwarded in the financial books.

Regarding Fauji Foundation, it's sounds Oriental, anyways you are probably correct in your assessment, but clearly you are not telling me that Fauji Foundation is controlling whole of ISI/military commericial organization because it sound like that from you.....This is small part that has been sold to Fauji Corp. and you are showing data on this... By the way, the link you provided above for me did not open....

As told, it is not doing business on behalf of the military nor it gives its proceeds to the military. Its a registered organization and its financial books are open, thus anyone can look at them and see where the funds are going. Its a charitable organization which does business and spends on the retired military personnel as well as civilians too. It does not gives a single penny to the military or ISI. I have no idea from where you took the idea that it is doing business on behalf of the military, its not. Its not a secret organization, it is an open organization with lot of projects in collaboration with civilian / private sector.

Fauji Foundation is the umbrella organization, all the companies work under this foundation and their incomes are shown independently and after whatever profit has gone to the shareholders, Fauji Foundation uses its share of income on the charitable projects its running.

Giving you as an example, the place i work in, its major shareholder is a private economic development fund, so when the profits are divided among the shareholders, the economic development fund uses its share of profit earned from my organization as being an owner on charitable causes in Pakistan as well as abroad. Same case is Fauji Foundation. I haven't shown any small part, if that website had opened for you, you would have been very much enlightened about what type of organizations are working under the Fauji Foundation umbrella and how much income they are generating. You can Google and find useful information too.

So, once again, Fauji Foundation is an open organization, its financial books are open so are the companies working under it and it does not channels money to the military or the ISI nor is FF working for the military. Its working for the retired military personnel.

What I think, My personal opinion only, is that, because Pakistan is struggling interms of financial means, ISI/military is selling off the least important component to private organization to raise funds...

Nops, that is not the case. As said, the FF is not working for the military or ISI, its working for retired military personnel benefit and as told above its an open organization. It has sold nothing to raise funds, rather it is investing more on its own and with the private sector in joint collaboration projects and having a very positive impact on the society, economy and the people.

ISI and military are given budgets from the govt side, from nowhere else does the military gets funds, but yeah i can't say about ISI, who may have extra sources to generate funds since they need lot of extra money being a intel agency.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I do not know what IB means????

Regarding ISI having lots of Civilians population was not my question. My question was very clear in this form, that ISI, as an organization has to be accountable to democractic enviroment. Last that I know off, Pakistan is a Democractic country and not a Anarchy...... Right....

So Why not make ISI a Civilian organization?

IB means Intelligence Bureau.

Wasn't the ISI Chief very recently grilled by the parliamentarians right in the democratic HQ, that is the parliament & even asked the parliamentarians that he is willing to resign if they ask ?? Do Google about it. That does shows that things are changing, things are not what they used to be in the past. And this wasn't the first case, the current ISI chief has made 3-4 appearances in the parliament and given briefs to the parliamentarians as well as got questioned on different things.

And ISI can not be made into a fully civilian organization as it has certain roles to play which out civilian infrastructure may not be able to do effectively. That is why it consists of both, military and civilians, working together.

But hope, just like present it keeps answerable to the democratic process and does not interferes in the political setup of the country.

And on the other hand, also hope that our parliamentarians grow up and become mature enough to start thinking about the country and its people and do not give a chance to the military or the ISI to play a role in the politics.

 

[TaimiKhan]

The AFIC and AFID along with MH are run by whom?, and funds are generated by the military or in the annual budget?

AFIC & AFID, MH or CMH all generate funds through the call on by the civilian population to these hospitals. Lots of civilians go to these hospitals and get treated and are charged for that.

The funds generated are divided in different sections, good portion of the fees goes to the doctors, some to the nursing/technical staff employed and rest is mostly used up by the hospitals for its own internal usage on infrastructure, thus it reduces burden on the budget of the military which is then used for other needs within the military.

These funds generated by these hospitals don't go into anyone's pocket.

 

[Altaf Bhai]

Come on Taimi Khan sir,

My post was "Very good article indeed" and you delete it calling a troll??

How is it a troll?