Germany plans to build new leopard tank

[Penguin]

I respect that you went through all that trouble to make that list, so I'll refrain from coming down hard. But these are just recent purchases. The Netherlands alone purchased over 440 leopard 2 tanks during the end of the cold war in the 80s. Just saying.

You are too kind


Yeah, that is because my country's arny was the launch customer for LEO2, so? All but 15 (!) of these 440 have been sold as military surplus.

Leopard 2, was first produced in 1979. During the cold war. The Leopard 2 is, one of the most sucessfull projects of the last generation of main battle tanks, with over 3,200 units produced.

In September 1977 the German MoD had formally decided to go ahead with plans for production of 1,800 Leopard 2, which were to be delivered in five batches.
A total of 380 Leopard 2 were built in the first batch. The first six were delivered in 1979. Another 100 were delivered in 1980 and 229 in 1981. By 1982 production was running at 300 a year, with the last first batch Leopard 2 delivered in March of that year. Production of the second batch began in March 1982 and ended in November 1983 (450 vehicles). The 300 Leopard 2 of the third batch were built between November 1983 and November 1984. The fourth batch was built between December 1984 and December 1985 (300 vehicles). Between December 1985 and March 1987 370 batch 5 vehicles were delivered.
Although only five batches were originally intended to be built, an order for a sixth batch of 150 vehicles was placed in june 1987 and delivered between January 1988 and May 1989. Production of 100 seventh batch vehicles began in May 1989 and ended in April 1990. Between January 1991 and March 1992 a further 75 vehicles were delivered.
After delivery of the last eight batch vehicle, there were 2.125 Leopard 2 A4 in service with the Bundeswehr.

225 are currently active, with some 100 being reactived from stores

If you add the 445 to the Nethertlands, the count is 2,570. The Netherlands contracted the tanks in June 1979 and they were delivered 1981 through 1986 worden geleverd. The first arrived in the Netherlands July 1981, with the official transfer taking place early September 1981. They were from the second and third production batch.

Switzerland license produced 345
Spain ordered 219 Leopard 2E with deliveries 2004-2008
In March 2003, the Hellenic Army of Greece ordered 170 Leopard 2 HEL for delivery 2006-2009
Adding these you end up at 3305

All the rest are of the exports are used vehicles and/or rebuilds.

The original requirement for trhe LeClerc by the French was 1400. This was soon reduced to 690. Eventually they got 222+184=406 tanks + 20 ARV. UAE got 388 tanks plus 46 ARV and 2 school vehicles. So, domestic use and export is about 50/50. All of these are new built

Looking at the Leo 2, the ratio in new builts is about 2150 domestic and some 1200 for export. A least a third of those exports has been resold to third parties or back to the German manufacturer and available for reexport (Dutch vehicles), as well as a good portion of the domestic ones.

 

[Turkish_FR]

Tank = Tracked Grave

 

[The Last of us]

Tank = Tracked Grave

And yet so many countries are continuing their development? All military hardware are vulnerable, tanks are no exception. With arrival of more potent active defence system, tank will be much better protected.

 

[IR-TR]

You are too kind


Yeah, that is because my country's arny was the launch customer for LEO2, so? All but 15 (!) of these 440 have been sold as military surplus.

Leopard 2, was first produced in 1979. During the cold war. The Leopard 2 is, one of the most sucessfull projects of the last generation of main battle tanks, with over 3,200 units produced.

In September 1977 the German MoD had formally decided to go ahead with plans for production of 1,800 Leopard 2, which were to be delivered in five batches.
A total of 380 Leopard 2 were built in the first batch. The first six were delivered in 1979. Another 100 were delivered in 1980 and 229 in 1981. By 1982 production was running at 300 a year, with the last first batch Leopard 2 delivered in March of that year. Production of the second batch began in March 1982 and ended in November 1983 (450 vehicles). The 300 Leopard 2 of the third batch were built between November 1983 and November 1984. The fourth batch was built between December 1984 and December 1985 (300 vehicles). Between December 1985 and March 1987 370 batch 5 vehicles were delivered.
Although only five batches were originally intended to be built, an order for a sixth batch of 150 vehicles was placed in june 1987 and delivered between January 1988 and May 1989. Production of 100 seventh batch vehicles began in May 1989 and ended in April 1990. Between January 1991 and March 1992 a further 75 vehicles were delivered.
After delivery of the last eight batch vehicle, there were 2.125 Leopard 2 A4 in service with the Bundeswehr.

225 are currently active, with some 100 being reactived from stores

If you add the 445 to the Nethertlands, the count is 2,570. The Netherlands contracted the tanks in June 1979 and they were delivered 1981 through 1986 worden geleverd. The first arrived in the Netherlands July 1981, with the official transfer taking place early September 1981. They were from the second and third production batch.

Switzerland license produced 345
Spain ordered 219 Leopard 2E with deliveries 2004-2008
In March 2003, the Hellenic Army of Greece ordered 170 Leopard 2 HEL for delivery 2006-2009
Adding these you end up at 3305

All the rest are of the exports are used vehicles and/or rebuilds.

The original requirement for trhe LeClerc by the French was 1400. This was soon reduced to 690. Eventually they got 222+184=406 tanks + 20 ARV. UAE got 388 tanks plus 46 ARV and 2 school vehicles. So, domestic use and export is about 50/50. All of these are new built

Looking at the Leo 2, the ratio in new builts is about 2150 domestic and some 1200 for export. A least a third of those exports has been resold to third parties or back to the German manufacturer and available for reexport (Dutch vehicles), as well as a good portion of the domestic ones.

So more than 1200 (for actual countries that bought them for merit) vs 380, a single country that's half a protectorate? You made your own case.

 

[Penguin]

So more than 1200 (for actual countries that bought them for merit) vs 380, a single country that's half a protectorate? You made your own case.

I'm sure you know the difference between absolute and relative..... and between NEW and USED.

1100/3300 is 1 in 3 for export
388 / 794 is about 1 in 2 for export
as far as NEW vehicles are concerned.

There are no used LeClercs on the market
Many counties use used or rebuilt Leo2s.

That was the earlier point.

Good luck thinking you're smart.

 

[IR-TR]

I'm sure you know the difference between absolute and relative..... and between NEW and USED.

1100/3300 is 1 in 3 for export
388 / 794 is about 1 in 2 for export
as far as NEW vehicles are concerned.

There are no used LeClercs on the market
Many counties use used or rebuilt Leo2s.

That was the earlier point.

Good luck thinking you're smart.

Are you daft? Wtf is the point in underscore the RATIO of domestic vs export orders?? 1 domestic order and 1 export order, wow, what a ratio! I don't get it. Anyway, Germany had a lot more orders, to actual countries, not semi-protectorates. And btw, France is doing it's best right now to sell some SECOND HAND Leclercs to Qatar. Their production line is shut down btw, Leopard's line is open for le bizniz. Anyway, the Leopard has been sold to more countries and in greater numbers. New and second hand. And it's consistently ranked above the Leclerc. Anyway, hope the French don't ruin the third generation.

France hopes to sell second hands main battle tank Leclerc in Qatar 1403111 | March 2011 news defense military army industry UK | Military army defense industry news year 2011

 

[IND151]

Like being spoon fed eh? lmao....

I appreciate good posts.

You will not find me in Naswaristan.

 

[chathrapathi]

LOL...why are French and german people fighting here!!!!
Actually both countries are boasting about the technology which itself is the result of world wars....

 

[Audio]

I appreciate good posts.

You will not find me in Naswaristan.

Maybe go and visit Naswaristan? Along with the rest who find simple search engine use too much of an effort.

Sorry, but i find it pathetic you'd be "badgering" me for links that are 10 seconds away if you dedicate two brain cells to it.

 

[Penguin]

Are you daft? Wtf is the point in underscore the RATIO of domestic vs export orders?? 1 domestic order and 1 export order, wow, what a ratio! I don't get it. Anyway, Germany had a lot more orders, to actual countries, not semi-protectorates. And btw, France is doing it's best right now to sell some SECOND HAND Leclercs to Qatar. Their production line is shut down btw, Leopard's line is open for le bizniz. Anyway, the Leopard has been sold to more countries and in greater numbers. New and second hand. And it's consistently ranked above the Leclerc. Anyway, hope the French don't ruin the third generation.

France hopes to sell second hands main battle tank Leclerc in Qatar 1403111 | March 2011 news defense military army industry UK | Military army defense industry news year 2011

Therein lies the problem.

40 used LeClercs relative tot the total produced is peanuts compared to that ratio with LEO2 (which rotate in and out the factory) And it says HOPES to sell. Obviously this hasn't happened (Qatar Orders 24 PzH 2000 Self-Propelled Howitzers and 62 Leopard 2 A7+ Main Battle Tanks

There is no NEW production of LEO2 currently. What is being sold are rebuilt (and I mean TOTALLY rebuilt) LEO 2s. US does that same with Abrams. They take them apart and strip them and rebuild them from scratch to new standards. This has been the case from LEO2A5 onwards.

This kind of illustrates how the revolving door works

Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) handed over the latest version of the Leopard 2 main battle tank (MBT), the Leopard 2A7, to the inspector general of the German Army, Lieutenant General Rainer Korff on 10 December at their Munich facility.
....
The German Army has ordered a total of 20 Leopard 2A7 MBTs and the last of these will soon be delivered from KMW's Munich facility and issued to Tank Battalion 203, which currently operates 44 Leopard 2A6s.
...
The batch of 20 German Leopard 2A7 MBTs are in fact conversions of ex-Royal Netherlands Army Leopard 2A6 NL, which were provided by Canada as compensation for the Leopard 2A6M taken from German Army stocks and upgraded for deployment to Afghanistan.

Germany receives first Leopard 2A7 MBT - IHS Jane's 360

Knock yourself out Leopard 2A5 (NL) Dismantled Walk Around Page 1

thx

 

[IND151]

Maybe go and visit Naswaristan? Along with the rest who find simple search engine use too much of an effort.

Sorry, but i find it pathetic you'd be "badgering" me for links that are 10 seconds away if you dedicate two brain cells to it.

There is no need to insult me.

It is forum rule that when a poster posts article, he has to provide link for it.

 

[Audio]

There is no need to insult me.

It is forum rule that when a poster posts article, he has to provide link for it.

Did i post an article?

 

[cabatli_53]

And yet so many countries are continuing their development? All military hardware are vulnerable, tanks are no exception. With arrival of more potent active defence system, tank will be much better protected.

Syria-FSA conflicts openly introduce that tanks without advanced sensors and protection systems meet serious losts on urban warfare. A cheap anti-tank missile in the hand of a terorist organization can easily stop(even If can't penetrate) huge armoured vehicles. They are either disabled to move or lost strategic hardwares even If protect lives but causing no longer actively used against enemy targets which means an open target by implication as well. No need to mention those tanks against a well organized army which have modern anti-tank missiles/helicopters so It became a must to develop 360 degree situation awareness systems with both IR and radars supported by active protection munitions on board to improve defensive capabilities of tanks. To prevent the disadvantages of unwieldines of heavy tanks, They should be supported by IFVs equipped with smaller calibre unmanned turrets and All should have been operated under same network with active command-control information systems...

You can see How FSA is playing puss in the corner games with Syrian tanks. Their kills are just a matter of desicion and time.

 

[Taygibay]

tanks without advanced sensors and protection systems meet serious losts on urban warfare.

Nice analysis if a bit OT. I concur and can point out that Israel nearly invented using tanks for urban control,
the latest additions to the Leclercs are very much in the line of close-range defense for such fighting in answer.
The near future of warfare will see an important shift towards fighting in civilian zones. How very Big Brother!

playing puss in the corner games with Syrian tanks. Their kills are just a matter of desicion and time.

That was my job in the Cavalry! Don't diss it!
That's their tactical advantage . . . they use it!
The opposing commander should shift tactics;
To cut his losses … and vanquish the fanatics!

That was my poetry moment of the day.
Have a great one yourself, Tay.

 

[HRM YANG]

We are a dead weight just because Leopards have been produced for the German Army in high numbers (then sold in second-hand to many countries) than Leclerc,that could have been produced in far high number if the cold war didn't end. (We at least,exported +400 of them to UAE,and the Leclerc is expensive,also very expensive to maintain in service,i bet some armies thought about buying it but.... didn't have the funds to,just as the Rafale.)
Actually,we export more than Germany (in € billions) and this year we are exporting even more,so much from a "dead weight".

Dutch army has 200leopards 2 A6, Canadian has more, they are not second handed.