Germany anti-Islam protests: Cologne Cathedral to switch of lights in protest against Pegida

[Desert Fox]

Very well said, Sir. You offer a robust point of view. I would only say that these protesters need to understand the difference between Muslims and Terrorist supporters. There is a HUGE difference and they should not generalize the Muslims with that lot.

Other than that, I agree with your points.

Thank you, Sir!

I would like to point out that as a Pakistani and Muslim i don't find these developments welcoming since i too would not escape the brush of discrimination. However, it is the Muslim community as a whole at fault here due to their silence in the face of rising extremism. This is reflected within the leaderships of Muslim countries, they are all spectators watching ISIS like extremist organizations wreak havoc all across the Muslim world. The Muslim communities within Europe behave no differently.

The Majority is silent, then they will be lumped together with the extremists due to their silence.

The issue is whether these extremists enjoy as widespread support as is claimed.

Unfortunately, the failure of the authorities to clamp down on the extremists, on both sides, will allow the situation to spiral outward and engulf wider communities on both sides.

European countries are wary of curbing personal freedoms, but when extremists start to take advantage of these freedoms, then the foot must come down.

1). The question of whether or not the Islamist extremists enjoy support within Europe's Muslim communities is simply answered by the fact that the Muslim community is silent in the face of this extremism. This silence is what makes them no different from the terrorists in the eyes of the Westerners.

2). The authorities don't clamp down on Islamic extremists (who feed the xenophobia) for the exact reasons you espouse (ie to protect minorities) as doing so would portray them as being "discriminatory" towards Muslims.

And, i will reiterate my last point:

From a Westerners perspective, the scenes of carnage taking place in the middle east and the persecution, rape, and enslavement of Christians and other religious/sectarian minorities within Muslim majority countries sure sends a chill down the spine of every European/Westerner at the though of increasing Muslim populations within their own countries, and really no one can blame them considering the inability of the Muslims to curb extremism not only within the middle east but also within their communities in the West.

ISIS and similar groups do enjoy considerable moral and material support within European Muslim communities and even receive manpower.

 

[anonymus]

Both in British were converts and both were british not even migrants mate.

Both were migrants from Somalia, you ignorant Jihadi.

 

[Developereo]

1). The question of whether or not the Islamist extremists enjoy support within Europe's Muslim communities is simply answered by the fact that the Muslim community is silent in the face of this extremism. This silence is what makes them no different from the terrorists in the eyes of the Westerners.

This claim is simply false.
Muslim communities denounce the extremists loud and clear.

However, what is true is that Muslims enjoy almost no representation in the Western media, so they are at the mercy of the media to portray them as they wish.

To blame the wider Muslim community for the crimes of some extremists is like blaming all Latinos in American for Latino gang members, or to blame all blacks for black gang members. It is an unreasonable and self-serving line of logic.

 

[Desert Fox]

Anyhow, just some relevant links as to why there is a rise in xenophobia within Europe and the growing fear of Islamization:


Trojan horse: ISIS militants come to Europe disguised as refugees, US intel sources claim — RT News

'Jihadist' flag flown in east London | World news | The Guardian

'Sharia controlled zone' in Germany: Group of young Muslims patrolling city streets — RT News

Germany's "Sharia Police"

Native French under Attack in Muslim Areas - World - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

Muslim rape wave in Sweden

Anjem Choudary and Islamic extremists set up Sharia law zones in UK cities | Daily Mail Online

Muslim vigilantes jailed for 'sharia law' attacks in London | UK news | The Guardian

1,400 English Girls Raped by Multiculturalism | National Review Online

European 'No-Go' Zones for Non-Muslims Proliferating

Racial Gangrape: Another Diversity Disaster | VDARE.COM

This claim is simply false.
Muslim communities denounce the extremists loud and clear.

However, what is true is that Muslims enjoy almost no representation in the Western media, so they are at the mercy of the media to portray them as they wish.

This would have been a good excuse 10-15 years ago. But today this isn't reasonable. Social media has made it easier to spread information rather quickly and more people receive their news and information from social media than any other media source.

Muslims in Europe were able to organize hundreds of mass protests and demonstrations involving thousands of demonstrators against the Israeli attack on Gaza last summer and this news went viral all over social networking websites, but they can't do the same to protest the extremism within their own communities to show the world they oppose the extremist elements??

 

[Developereo]

Muslims in Europe were able to organize hundreds of mass protests and demonstrations involving thousands of demonstrators against the Israeli attack on Gaza last summer and this news went viral all over social networking websites, but they can't do the same to protest the extremism within their own communities to show the world they oppose the extremist elements??

A protest against extremists is a meaningless charade, even though Muslim groups have held marches in solidarity with European victims of terrorism.

Protests against Israel (or any country) are another matter because Germany, or any other country, provides weapons and money to their government which is used to kill civilians.

 

[Desert Fox]

A protest against extremists is a meaningless charade, even though Muslim groups have held marches in solidarity with European victims of terrorism.

If its meaningless to make it loud and clear that majority of Muslims don't share the views of extremists and thus disown them then Muslims should not complain when they are lumped with the terrorists by the a great majority of Westerners.

Common sense, you live in someone else home than you should also do your best to prove that you are a worthy guest.

Protests against Israel (or any country) are another matter because Germany, or any other country, provides weapons and money to their government which is used to kill civilians.

Funny, because the same Nazi organizations too oppose German military aid to israel.

You expect the Germans to disown and distant themselves from the Nazi/xenophobic organizations, but you deem unnecessary a similar move by Muslims to openly disown the terrorists within their ranks??


It is exactly this hypocritical mentality which is feeding the xenophobia, and don't expect the German gov.t to abide by the demands of Muslims to curb the xenophobic sentiments of its native populace.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Germany has a strong and educated civil society. Last time they let fascist xenophobes take their country it lead to an 11% decrease in their population.

Only this time, all sections of the society are supporting it. Except for the politically correct of course. They have every right to ask for it.

Besides they are mainly protesting against fascism. Not for it.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

then why don't pak allow proselytization by Christians in pak

You know why.

 

[Desert Fox]

same fear in india too. the muslims are asking for reservation when we have already given them reservation in form of Pakistan.

I should add its only a fringe which is making the ruckus. actually fringe elements on both sides.

I can't comment on india's Muslims since i'm not too knowledgeable in that regard. When Pakistan and india split they chose to stay in india out of their love for their ancestral land and patriotism for india. They are not a immigrant community like the Afghan refugees in Pakistan or the Muslim communities in Europe, thus a comparison cannot really be made.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

I am expecting an answer.

Hypocrisy.

 

[Developereo]

If its meaningless to make it loud and clear that majority of Muslims don't share the views of extremists and thus disown them then Muslims should not complain when they are lumped with the terrorists by the a great majority of Westerners.

Common sense, you live in someone else home than you should also do your best to prove that you are a worthy guest.


Funny, because the same Nazi organizations too oppose German military aid to israel.

You expect the Germans to disown and distant themselves from the Nazi/xenophobic organizations, but you deem unnecessary a similar move by Muslims to openly disown the terrorists within their ranks??


It is exactly this hypocritical mentality which is feeding the xenophobia, and don't expect the German gov.t to abide by the demands of Muslims to curb the xenophobic sentiments of its native populace.

There is nothing hypocritical about it.
How many marches do you see by various ethnic groups against ethnic gangs?
How many marches do you do see by people against criminals?

Marches against a country with an established military are a whole different matter.

 

[Desert Fox]

There is nothing hypocritical about it.
How many marches do you see by various ethnic groups against ethnic gangs?
How many marches do you do see by people against criminals?

Marches against a country with an established military are a whole different matter.

Then there is no point of complaining when Muslims are lumped with terrorists if they can't make the effort to distance themselves. Germans reserve every right to express their discontent with foreigners who believe they deserve special treatment.

And secondly, we are not talking about petty street gangs, we're talking about an extremist ideology which has defeated national armies in the middle east and other parts of the Muslim world.

Muslims can protest anti-Islam films, insulting cartoons, etc all of which i agree are insulting and must be condemned and brought an end to. But they can't protest against their own terrorists and extremists.

 

[Developereo]

Then there is no point of complaining when Muslims are lumped with terrorists if they can't make the effort to distance themselves. Germans reserve every right to express their discontent with foreigners who believe they deserve special treatment.

And secondly, we are not talking about petty street gangs, we're talking about an extremist ideology which has defeated national armies in the middle east and other parts of the Muslim world.

Muslims can protest anti-Islam films, insulting cartoons, etc all of which i agree are insulting and must be condemned and brought an end to. But they can't protest against their own terrorists and extremists.

Within Europe, these people are no more than gangs and can be dealt with by domestic law enforcement.

Once again, you don't seem to understand that Muslims do protest against extremists but there's nothing they can do. If the government allows the extremists to flourish, that's that. What can Muslims do? Many Muslims are upset that their kids can be brainwashed by these elements.

And before you say parents should take responsibility, this is no different from kids getting hooked into drugs or prostitution or other bad behavior. Parents can only do so much. If the criminals are allowed free rein by the authorities, it hurts Muslims communities most.

 

[ranjeet]

Their country and they have a right to raise their voice against which they find offensive to their way of life.

 

[mujhaidind]

More they fight us, the stronger we become. Islam will dominate the world. It has been predicted and you can do nothing about it.
“Verily Allah has shown me the eastern and western part of the earth, and I saw the authority of my Ummah (nation) dominate all that I saw.”