German with Hitler ringtone faces jail term

[Currywurst]

Please understand.. The period before such laws were implemented in Germany was its Darkest since inception.. The terrible shadow of Nazi atrocities had to erased.. It was just not possible to say all people related to Nazi ideology now had to leave the country.. put in Jail.. or be second hand citizens .. The Nazi party ruled Germany for a decade and more.. This meant that the majority had to be part of the cultural and social life propagated by the Nazi party if they need to succeed in life.. everyone from Students.. to Adults..

After the war.. The only way was to ensure a complete Ban on Nazi paraphernalia.. propaganda material.. As the pursuit of this ideology had caused immeasurable loss.. Now with the young Generation .. There is little or no linkage that young Germans feel toward Nazis.. or their attributed crimes.. So Yes to a certain extent these laws have passed their time .. A prime example is my Friend has an old army vehicle that still have symbols from the ole Army.. And every time he plans on taking the vehicle out for a ride he has to cover them.. Even today Mein Kampf is banned in Germany..

For those who scoff at these German Law.. Please find solace that last time w.r.t Blasphemy Law in Germany ..A man was convicted for making toilet paper with Qur'an etc.. written on it and sending it to media organization and mosque's etc.. after 2005 London tube bombings..

 

[RescueRanger]

The shadow cast by Nazism upon Europeans was very black indeed. I suppose most don't want to have anything to do with Nazism any more. They neither want to see the Nazi tyranny rise again nor be reminded of the time it did; and they remember that the Nazis abused freedom of speech to drown out all other voices.

So for the Europeans, anti-Nazi laws makes them feel that they are asserting their own freedom from tyranny. Everyone felt they were necessary immediately after WWII. I expect that within another generation these laws will be repealed.

Granted Solomon, but i would like to see such laws apply to sentiments of other minorities as well, if the HRA 2001 was adopted to apply to every EU citizen, then why selectively apply in certain cases?

 

[Solomon2]

Granted Solomon, but i would like to see such laws apply to sentiments of other minorities as well, if the HRA 2001 was adopted to apply to every EU citizen, then why selectively apply in certain cases?

I don't understand you. What minorities' sentiments are you talking about, what is "HRA 2001", and what laws do you want applied and to whom?

 

[Solomon2]

The Nazi party ruled Germany for a decade and more.. This meant that the majority had to be part of the cultural and social life propagated by the Nazi party if they need to succeed in life.. everyone from Students.. to Adults..

After the war.. The only way was to ensure a complete Ban on Nazi paraphernalia.. propaganda material.. As the pursuit of this ideology had caused immeasurable loss.

Currywurst, do you think that the Afghans and Pakistanis should ban Taliban propaganda in the same way Europe has banned Nazi propaganda?

 

[RescueRanger]

I don't understand you. What minorities' sentiments are you talking about, what is "HRA 2001", and what laws do you want applied and to whom?

Minorities = Muslims in Europe... Last time i checked they were still in the minority

Sentiments = You know what im talking about.

HRA: Human Rights Act : Your rights - homepage

what laws do you want applied and to whom:

Human Rights -> Right To Free Expression -> Defamation:

The right to free expression can be restricted if this is necessary to protect the reputation of others. The law of defamation allows persons who consider that their reputation has been or may be harmed by statements made by others to sue for damages or to prevent the making of those statments.

Apparently this is selectively applied in certain cases and dismissed in others... Why so?

 

[Solomon2]

Minorities = Muslims in Europe... Last time i checked they were still in the minority Sentiments = You know what im talking about.

As Currywurst and I explained, the Europe's anti-Nazi laws apply only to Nazis because of the terrible history associated with them. Muslims do not have that history in Europe - at least not recently. Why would you want Muslims suppressed, anyway?

The right to free expression can be restricted if this is necessary to protect the reputation of others. The law of defamation allows persons who consider that their reputation has been or may be harmed by statements made by others to sue for damages or to prevent the making of those statements.

Apparently this is selectively applied in certain cases and dismissed in others... Why so?

I guess because ALL Nazi propaganda is considered defamation. I think you'll do better asking Europe-related questions of Currywurst, rather than me.

 

[Jigs]

Not surprised at all this is pretty standard stuff in Germany. They also do still hold a level of censorship above most other countries in the region.

 

[Currywurst]

Currywurst, do you think that the Afghans and Pakistanis should ban Taliban propaganda in the same way Europe has banned Nazi propaganda?

Solomon, It would be wishful thinking on our part to expect the solutions for yesteryear Europe would apply to the AFPAK region. The region is fraught with divisions along ethnic lines even though most of them follow Sunni branch of Islam.

Specifically coming to Taliban, An Organization that is primarily made up of Pashtun's which is ideologically looking to re/establish a Utopian state based on strict following of Islamic sharia laws. At a Strategic level the objectives of the Taliban on either side of the AFPAK border are relatively the same.. being some form of Utopian Islamic state.. To your question on whether the propaganda associated with their goals can be banned by the people .. I would say NO.. because we in the West have a myopic view on the region and issues pertaining to it.. which leads us to develop unrealistic expectations and trying to implement quick fix solutions

Let me explain... in the recent past as witnessed in Pakistan.. We have seen ban on Facebook(Muhammad drawings).. Youtube (Unislamic material).. Yahoo etc.. The key here is to realize that these bans were put forward by the Independent judiciary of Pakistan and not by a dictatorial president or sharia based Islamic government..

Furthermore, A country like Pakistan and to an extent Afghanistan traditionally have had Islamic parties that through the back/front-doors have had a strong influence on the government.. These parties propagate much of the same ideology that the Taliban wants to implement.. just that the means adopted are different.. So far from implementing a Ban on such propaganda.. my belief is that we are going to see this radical propaganda spread..

The people in this region wear their religion on their sleeve..A simple drawing for you and me.. Becomes the cause of immense uproar and deep insult and is seen as unwarranted stoking up of Muslim beliefs..Unlike Europe that is moving towards humanistic values than a particular religious way albeit influenced by Christian foundations.. One needs to be sensitive on the deep-rooted cultural background that religion has for people in AFPAK.. We cannot expect them to think and behave like us.. So if the people in AFPAK think they have a problem then the solution has to come from themselves..

The ideal thing for the west.. at least from my point of view for Germany to do is.. withdraw troops from Afghanistan.. It has rightly been called the graveyard of empires.. people there have lived through conflict and know only to fight wars..Kids in these tribal regions grow up holding Kalashnikovs.. Kids.. There is no fix from Europe..