German rail giant mulls buying trains from China: report

[AndrewJin]

So this means that these new trains can run on the current tracks?

I thought that only some tracks can be used.

This CIT500 train can travel on all tracks as long as bullet train signal system is equipped, thus compatible with all passenger-dedicated lines and upgraded old lines at the allowed speed.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

This CIT500 train can travel on all tracks as long as bullet train signal system is equipped, thus compatible with all passenger-dedicated lines and upgraded old lines at the allowed speed.

Don't complicate matters for a railway noob like me.

A simple question:
Can this new 500kmph train run on the existing HSR network of tracks, like between Shanghai and Beijing?

 

[AndrewJin]

The current high speed rail (in range of 250kph to 400 kph) uses the same rail. (Different from regular rail). I do remember reading somewhere the current ones can support 500 kph trains as well. Mostly because the 500 kph technology is already in development when the current generation is commercialized.

Even on the old lines. French technicians once used a certain glue to stabilise ballasted track, used to test TGV at 500kph. Now, we can test 300kph at improved ballasted track. For ballasted tracks, 200-300kph is a very ideal speed.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

The current high speed rail (in range of 250kph to 400 kph) uses the same rail. (Different from regular rail). I do remember reading somewhere the current ones can support 500 kph trains as well. Mostly because the 500 kph technology is already in development when the current generation is commercialized.

And this 500 kmph is rolling stock right?
Obviously has to be, for current tracks are for rolling stock. It would be great to have such high speeds, for the current Maglevs also run less than 500kmph.

 

[AndrewJin]

Don't complicate matters for a railway noob like me.

A simple question:
Can this new 500kmph train run on the existing HSR network of tracks, like between Shanghai and Beijing?

It cannot operated at 500kph, but 400kph no problem. The test speed of CRH380A on Shanghai-Beijing HSR was already more than 400kph. On improved old line of Shanghai-Beijing, at 250kph.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Even on the old lines. French technicians once used a certain glue to stabilised ballasted track, used to test TGV at 500kph. Now, we can test 300kph at improved ballasted track. For ballasted tracks, 200-300kph is a very ideal speed.

Please understand my brain is not able to handle too much of this. My simple question is can the trains being developed for 500kmph run on HSR tracks already laid, say between Shanghai and beijing?

Simply answer yes or no.

It cannot operated at 500kph, but 400kph no problem. The test speed of CRH380A on Shanghai-Beijing HSR was already more than 400kph.

So when is 400kmph commercializing?

I also read somewhere that after Wenzhou crash, the speed of the trains was deliberately reduced from 350 to 300 kmph.
Is it true?

And if the speed was reduced to 300kmph, will the track be able to sustain even 400kmph?

 

[AndrewJin]

Please understand my brain is not able to handle too much of this. My simple question is can the trains being developed for 500kmph run on HSR tracks already laid, say between Shanghai and beijing?

Simply answer yes or no.



So when is 400kmph commercializing?

I also read somewhere that after Wenzhou crash, the speed of the trains was deliberately reduced from 350 to 300 kmph.
Is it true?

And if the speed was reduced to 300kmph, will the track be able to sustain even 400kmph?

That was a political combat between pro-SOE and pro-POE. Wenzhou accident has nothing to do with speed but with ill management and failing signal system. Commercialised speed is 350-380kph at maximum, 400-500kph is testing speed. In every railway, u have to test the maximum speed and operating speed. The most economical speed for now is still 300-380kph.

And mind that, the construction fee of a 350kph line and a 250kph line is negligible.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

That was a political combat between pro-SOE and pro-POE. Wenzhou accident has nothing to do with speed but with ill management and failing signal system. Commercialised speed is 350-380kph at maximum, 400-500kph is testing speed. In every railway, u have to test the maximum speed and operating speed. The most economical speed for now is still 300-380kph.

And mind that, the construction fee of a 350kph line and a 250kph line is negligible.

Dude, learn to be a good teacher. I don't feign my ignorance on this topic. I am still confused.

 

[tranquilium]

Even on the old lines. French technicians once used a certain glue to stabilised ballasted track, used to test TGV at 500kph. Now, we can test 300kph at improved ballasted track. For ballasted tracks, 200-300kph is a very ideal speed.

And this 500 kmph is rolling stock right?
Obviously has to be, for current tracks are for rolling stock. It would be great to have such high speeds, for the current Maglevs also run less than 500kmph.

Okay, I just took time to check some documents. I was wrong. The design limit of the Beijing-Shanghai line is actually 380 kph. So if in the future, the line wants to run 500 kph trains, it is very possible that the line needs to be upgrade in some ways.

Edit: I am not sure what kind of upgrade is required or if one is required at all, since there has been no documented case for such project and my specialty is not in railway engineering.

 

[cirr]

When the East meets the West：

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Okay, I just took time to check some documents. I was wrong. The design limit of the Beijing-Shanghai line is actually 380 kph. So if in the future, the line wants to run 500 kph trains, it is very possible that the line needs to be upgrade in some ways.

This is what I wanted to ask!
But current trains run at 300kmph right?
And how much will it cost to upgrade?

When the East meets the West：

Don't tell me this is a train interior?

 

[tranquilium]

This is what I wanted to ask!
But current trains run at 300kmph right?
And how much will it cost to upgrade?

Don't tell me this is a train interior?

Yes, the current speed is 300kph with a planned speed upgrade to 350 kph. As for the cost for upgrade, no idea. Like I said, I am not a railway engineer and there has not been a documented case for such upgrade, so I can't really say. Though from engineering perspective, these lines would stay at the current design for at least one decade, possibly two decades or more before they need to be upgraded. So discussion right now is actually pointless because that much time can bring a lot of technology change which affect the cost of upgrade.

Edit: At a guess, the cost is probably less than the cost to build these right now, relatively speaking. A lot of the cost right now went into acquisition of the land, as well as building new homes for the relocated families.

 

[AndrewJin]

Yes, the current speed is 300kph with a planned speed upgrade to 350 kph. As for the cost for upgrade, no idea. Like I said, I am not a railway engineer and there has not been a documented case for such upgrade, so I can't really say. Though from engineering perspective, these lines would stay at the current design for at least one decade, possibly two decades or more before they need to be upgraded. So discussion right now is actually pointless because that much time can bring a lot of technology change which affect the cost of upgrade.

Edit: At a guess, the cost is probably less than the cost to build these right now, relatively speaking. A lot of the cost right now went into acquisition of the land, as well as building new homes for the relocated families.

It cannot be updated, u cannot make the distance between two tracks larger. But CIT500 can operate at any speed below 500kph. Just like CRH380 also operates on 200kph lines. They share the same signal system. By upgrading old line, including upgrading signal system, replacing old tracks by seamless tracks, replacing railway crossings by flyovers/tunnels, then we can also enjoy 250kph-300 kph on old lines.

 

[AndrewJin]

Dude, learn to be a good teacher. I don't feign my ignorance on this topic. I am still confused.

No one dare to be your teacher, lol

 

[Viet]

We need a camera at the next executive meeting of Siemens industry. The reaction must be comedic.

I once worked for siemens as trainee. I know the company in and out. as for china, surely siemens feels a bit more pressure, but she does not fall in panic at all. there is no or little reason for.

first, siemens still has a lead in railway technology. leadership in technology has a price. Mercedes car is more expensive than Volkswagen car. everybody accepts it.

second, the deutsche bahn not only buys parts from siemens, but other competitors on the market as Bombardier (Canada) and Alstom (france). so why not from china in the future if quality and price are ok?

third, deutsche bahn is highly indebted (16 billion Euro). she is desperate in seeking other cheaper providers.

last, deutsche bahn uses china as a threat at the next round of price negotiation with siemens.