German Muslims must obey law, not sharia: Merkel

[Parashuram1]

Chancellor Merkel doesn't seem to have said anything wrong. The comments seem to have straight targeted radicalized youth who mis-interpret religious laws and come in conflict with the federal laws of Germany. If a person is German citizen irrespective of religion, he or she must follow the federal laws rather than going by laws that make the very person an alien in his/her adopted country.

When other communities have no problems in following the laws and making concessions in their own faiths to integrate with the country, I don't see any reason for certain people of Muslim community to refute this demand as biased. It would be wrong to point out that Merkel said something offensive and this simply reflects the narrow-mindedness of certain people in German society.

 

[Nothing]

But shouldn't that state also try to provide proof or at least some illustrations where Shariah law has come into conflict with its national law? I mean, shouldn't Merkel be more specific when she says that Muslims should follow German law instead of Shariah while living in Germany, its highly dubious that Muslims living in Germany follow shariah when several Muslim states across the world don't even have Shariah law ?
If Germans consider freedom to profess Islam as a Shariah law then it's not the problem with Interpretation it's just their "insidious hypocrisy". No matter what they say Nazis were "German's" or can they proof with scientific knowledge that they were some special species? Anyways after killing millions of jews, i kind of expected germans to be little tolerant, but, i guess i was wrong they still believe in "Uberdeutcheman" philosophy

Agree with you for some points, but dude no need to get past of Germany in between.

If some non-Muslim state will started pointing out to sharia more specifically then there may be chance of more intensified debate between lawmaker and religious figures. Even there will be chance of more visible devision between them. Rather then any state do this .. better some uniform body who represent all Muslim world should do that .. They should come up with more easy to understand format of sharia in multiple language and that should be approved by all OIC nations. That will help every other nation and Muslim population in world.

Just take my example , I know many Muslim friends and as out customers. Whenever I tried to understand sharia laws from them every one tells me different interpretation which is confusing for non-Muslim person like me to understand exact purpose as well as nature of sharia.

Again organisation like TTP which claims that, their final goal is to make sharia implementation across nation or world is giving negative impression about sharia in western countries.

 

[Spring Onion]

Chancellor Merkel doesn't seem to have said anything wrong. The comments seem to have straight targeted radicalized youth who mis-interpret religious laws and come in conflict with the federal laws of Germany. If a person is German citizen irrespective of religion, he or she must follow the federal laws rather than going by laws that make the very person an alien in his/her adopted country.

When other communities have no problems in following the laws and making concessions in their own faiths to integrate with the country, I don't see any reason for certain people of Muslim community to refute this demand as biased. It would be wrong to point out that Merkel said something offensive and this simply reflects the narrow-mindedness of certain people in German society.

Can you state what sharia laws are they following in Germany which are against German laws ???? other than their personal laws which are followed by everyone else too according to own faith

 

[Moorkh]

no the "3 talaq" system is not acceptable in india . there have been statements by the courts AND the muslim clerics saying the same.

also why are we just looking at marriage. what about inheritance, adoption or the last rites.

some things which might come in conflicy with german law include polygamy. in islam upto 4 wives are allowed under conditions. but in german law polygamy might be totally banned and be socially unacceptable. now if a person starts claiming a right to marry multiple times as part of his right to follow his religion, it creates a problem. the person will be alienated from the society in which he should be trying to assimilate. also he will be doing something illegal acording to the prevalent laws.

this is just one example of how problems might arise depending on the interpretation etc.

the example of hindus not being allowed to build funeral pyres in britain also comes to mind. again the last rights, considered essential parts of all religions come in conflict with the laws of the state.

and then one can create hypothetical cases. say some religion does not allow followers to wear headgear. then this would come in conflict with the traffic laws which require a person to wear a helmet.

the assertion chancellor Merkel might be trying to make is that the laws in the countries reflect the opinions and moral guidelines of the people living in them. these laws will be given higher priority and the immigrants will have to follow these pre-existing laws. right to freedom of religion does not give them the right to stop following them.

 

[Spring Onion]

Yes, I understand the difference, I think. Anyway, about your first question - if there were to be such a law, then it would not be secular. However, what "the law of the land" argument does mean is that if the law requires you to register the marriage, then you have to do so. Perform the marriage as per your customs, but then follow the law and register your marriage.

I dont think so registration of marriage is a big issue because here in Pakistan too we do register the marriage with the concerned department.

So, of course, your point cannot be entirely dismissed, because there is always going to be a constant balancing act between the law and the religion/culture of minorities. However, ordinarily, the minorities should obey the law and fight their case legally, or not go there.

They had been doing that already viz a viz moronic laws of that land about the attire and appearance.

 

[LaBong]

you still have to go through the legal proceeding to get officially divorced. How else would the government know whether you are divorced?

But I always wondered, how many wives would a muslim be allowed to have if get divorced??? According to the law board you are allowed to have 4 wives, but what is you divorce your first wife? Are you allowed to marry 3 women of 4?

I'm not very learned in this issue, but AFAIK saying 3 talaq considered as legal way to get divorced for Muslims in India if you got married under muslim personal laws.

 

[Camdor]

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self deleted

 

[MYSTIC]

no the "3 talaq" system is not acceptable in india . there have been statements by the courts AND the muslim clerics saying the same.

also why are we just looking at marriage. what about inheritance, adoption or the last rites.

some things which might come in conflicy with german law include polygamy. in islam upto 4 wives are allowed under conditions. but in german law polygamy might be totally banned and be socially unacceptable. now if a person starts claiming a right to marry multiple times as part of his right to follow his religion, it creates a problem. the person will be alienated from the society in which he should be trying to assimilate. also he will be doing something illegal acording to the prevalent laws.

this is just one example of how problems might arise depending on the interpretation etc.

the example of hindus not being allowed to build funeral pyres in britain also comes to mind. again the last rights, considered essential parts of all religions come in conflict with the laws of the state.

and then one can create hypothetical cases. say some religion does not allow followers to wear headgear. then this would come in conflict with the traffic laws which require a person to wear a helmet.

the assertion chancellor Merkel might be trying to make is that the laws in the countries reflect the opinions and moral guidelines of the people living in them. these laws will be given higher priority and the immigrants will have to follow these pre-existing laws. right to freedom of religion does not give them the right to stop following them.

very well said.

 

[Parashuram1]

Can you state what sharia laws are they following in Germany which are against German laws ???? other than their personal laws which are followed by everyone else too according to own faith

Lady, you very well know that the Chancellor had targeted the narrow minded radical youth who are more apt at mis-interpreting religious laws rather than actually attempting to understand them. I am not familiar with your laws but I can very well understand what the German leader was speaking about and whom she was targeting.

I intend to target the same group of narrow-minded misguided people and say that these people should not cook up their own interpretations and come in conflict with the federal laws of Germany. And since you are a media person, you must be aware of certain fresh cases that have emerged when the German police arrested some plotters of attacks in Germany some days back.

Do you not think that such a case strengthens the point of what the Chancellor speaks about?

 

[r3alist]

what prompted her to target the whole muslim population so publicly?

 

[fallstuff]

All the muslims in Germany are following the German law. I dont know why she needed to mention Sharia. Sharia in Europe is just an imagination of few Hizub ul tehrir guys and Christian Democrats like Merkel.

This is unfettered political rhetoric. Intended audience is probably conservative Chritsian voters.

People migrate mostly for a better life for themselves. I doubt the idea that generally people would migrate to a conutry like Germany with an intent to live an extra constitutional life.

 

[Stealth_fighter]

huh...another sign of jealousy about Muslim presence in Europe..sharia law never says disobey the law of a country you r living,but you should not forget/disobey ur own culture,heritage,duty as a Muslim...

 

[MYSTIC]

huh...another sign of jealousy about Muslim presence in Europe..sharia law never says disobey the law of a country you r living,but you should not forget/disobey ur own culture,heritage,duty as a Muslim...

Than why not stay in a country where you can practice your culture and religion freely. When you immigrate to a country where your culture is against the regular practice (either for security reasons or otherwise), you will face opposition.

You either live by the rules or get out.

And what jealousy???

 

[Peregrine]

Than why not stay in a country where you can practice your culture and religion freely. When you immigrate to a country where your culture is against the regular practice (either for security reasons or otherwise), you will face opposition.

You either live by the rules or get out.

And what jealousy???

Then why don't they also treat all citizens on equal grounds, why pin point Muslims only? Okay we get it, that they don't like Muslim women wearing head scarfs but what about Christian nuns? people wearing crucifix's? this is not jealousy these are double standards designed to target Muslims only. Has German government specified any particular incident where Muslims were practicing Shariah and were violating German laws? As for Polygamists, all i want to say is Americans have Polygamists as well, why didn't Merkel bother to include them while delivering her heads up speech?

 

[arun]

I dont think so registration of marriage is a big issue because here in Pakistan too we do register the marriage with the concerned department.

They had been doing that already viz a viz moronic laws of that land about the attire and appearance.

I know that registering marriages is required in Pakistan (not something you would expect an indian to know, I guess )

Anyway, there is one thing that I find very interesting. Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs; they all face similar conflicts when migrating to the western countries. But why are the Muslims very vehement regarding these conflicts as compared to the others? It seems to me that they attach far more importance to their religious teachings than the other two, when they are in conflict with the law of the land.