German Muslims must obey law, not sharia: Merkel

[notsuperstitious]

None of them are secular. They just do the drama of being secular, but behind the scenes things are different.

They may have removed religion from state activities, but religion still plays an important role in their lives and perceptions.

Then thats perfect secularism, isn't it? As secularism only removes religion from state activities, but leaves people free to follow it as they will. Secularism is not atheism.

But her claim that German values are 'çhristian or jewish' values is not secular.

 

[KS]

Why India needs people like her, I don't understand. We don't follow Sharia here anyway. Criminal laws are uniform for all Indians regardless of their religion or casts. Yes we have different civil laws(marriage and inheritance) for different religions but there is also an uniform civil law which people can follow if they wish.

We need a Uniform Civil Code ,not different codes for different religions.

And not if they wish, it should be mandatory.

You mean it should be this way, right?
Yeah in an ideal world. It'll be opposed by both Hindu and Muslim hardliners anyway.

I dont think there is any opposition from Hindu groups for the Uniform Civil Code.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Then thats perfect secularism, isn't it? As secularism only removes religion from state activities, but leaves people free to follow it as they will. Secularism is not atheism.

But her claim that German values are 'çhristian or jewish' values is not secular.

Well that is what I am trying to say, they do say that they are secular by having removed the religion from state, but in reality, it hasn't been 100%, which you just quoted in your last line. One way or another, they do use the religious card in their decisions and politics.

 

[LaBong]

I dont think there is any opposition from Hindu groups for the Uniform Civil Code.

Mainly because uniform civil code will be almost same as current Hindu civil code which went through several reforms. But Hindu hardliners fought tooth and nail against Raja Rammohan and Vidyasagar when they tried to abolish Sati, Multiple Marriage, Widow Marriage act etc. They only succeeded because then British rulers were largely insensitive towards Hindu majority and saw those evil as they were. What makes you think Muslims hardliners are any different than their Hindu counterparts that they will accept these reforms without any opposition.

Nobody except Indira Gandhi tried to walk the walk in independent India, they all talk the talk but would not try to do any reforms keeping in mind the vote-bank.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Germany like all European countries may be officially secular but no denying that the German culture is closely based on Judeo-Christian culture....however they are secular in that they do not base the affairs of their state /laws on the Christian religion so for all intents and purposes of immigration they can be called secular.......there is a big difference between culture and religion and the culture of a distinctive region ( be it germany / scandinavia /france ......any where else ) is unavoidable and irreplacable.....an immigrant immigrates to a country to live in such a culture in the first place .....if he gets his religious rights guarenteed then he should raise no objection.....but objecting to eating habits , dressing habits , socializing tendencies ....so on and so forth will not be accepted by the society in question and will lead to " perceived restrictions ".......

moot point : Is the german law uniform for all and based on non - religious principles ? if so then Merkel is right to compel the German populace to adhere to it rather than to the Sharia.....

the benefits they enjoy come at the price of erasing their origin to a certain extent ...to put it a bit harshly.....
if they feel this be a reasonable price to reside in germany ....well and good ...else they would have to reconsider their choice of residence.....

 

[jha]

Good observation Madam. If i go to germany I'll have to abide by german law. No one forced me to go there.Since they have been following Christianity and Judaism for thousand years, I should not expect them to allow me to follow Manu-smriti and make them uneasy.

 

[Spring Onion]

What sharia laws are being followed by Muslims in Germany ?

1. If they are offering their prayers then whats the issue with Christians or Jews there?


2. If they are following personal laws like marriage etc etc according to their religion then what is the problem with that ? After all everyone from other faith is doing so as well.


I feel they are trying to confused personal Islamic laws with sharia. Sharia has more to do with administration of many things in a social system including governance which in my views is NOT at all followed by Muslims in any non-Muslim or even Islamic country.

 

[KS]

Mainly because uniform civil code will be almost same as current Hindu civil code which went through several reforms. But Hindu hardliners fought tooth and nail against Raja Rammohan and Vidyasagar when they tried to abolish Sati, Multiple Marriage, Widow Marriage act etc. They only succeeded because then British rulers were largely insensitive towards Hindu majority and saw those evil as they were. What makes you think Muslims hardliners are any different than their Hindu counterparts that they will accept these reforms without any opposition.

Nobody except Indira Gandhi tried to walk the walk in independent India, they all talk the talk but would not try to do any reforms keeping in mind the vote-bank.

Maybe you got me wrong - I am for removing religion perse from politics and government including Hinduism.

Frame a Civil Code keeping equality in mind and not any religion in mind.I support that.

Also if any hindu groups had protested against abolition of Sati,then they were wrong.Simple.

 

[LaBong]

Maybe you got me wrong - I am for removing religion perse from politics and government including Hinduism.

Frame a Civil Code keeping equality in mind and not any religion in mind.I support that.

Also if any hindu groups had protested against abolition of Sati,then they were wrong.Simple.

I'm only trying to say that, these hardliners groups exists among Hindus as well. The reform that has been done to Hinduism was carried out by Hindus themselves. Muslims moderates have to come forward in this case.

 

[arun]

None of them are secular. They just do the drama of being secular, but behind the scenes things are different.

They may have removed religion from state activities, but religion still plays an important role in their lives and perceptions.

That is the characteristic of a secular country. Otherwise, you would be looking at a communist one.

...

Nobody except Indira Gandhi tried to walk the walk in independent India, they all talk the talk but would not try to do any reforms keeping in mind the vote-bank.

I don't know about Indira Gandhi, but now nobody even talks the talk. The BJP is insensitive to the concerns of minorities and the rest are too busy consolidating their vote-banks.

What sharia laws are being followed by Muslims in Germany ?

1. If they are offering their prayers then whats the issue with Christians or Jews there?


2. If they are following personal laws like marriage etc etc according to their religion then what is the problem with that ? After all everyone from other faith is doing so as well.

There is no restriction on their praying in a mosque. If somebody objects to THAT, then he/she is a bigot.

As far as the personal laws are concerned, in a truly secular country, different personal laws for different communities (excepting some tribes etc which are near extinction anyway) is not acceptable. You either follow the law of the land, or you don't go there.

 

[greatsequence]

We should not bring religion in the matter of law. Germany should integrate muslims in their society with the fact that all laws will be similar for all citizens.

All the muslims in Germany are following the German law. I dont know why she needed to mention Sharia. Sharia in Europe is just an imagination of few Hizub ul tehrir guys and Christian Democrats like Merkel.

 

[TaimiKhan]

That is the characteristic of a secular country. Otherwise, you would be looking at a communist one.

Plz learn about secularism and communism, both are different.

 

[Spring Onion]

As far as the personal laws are concerned, in a truly secular country, different personal laws for different communities (excepting some tribes etc which are near extinction anyway) is not acceptable. You either follow the law of the land, or you don't go there.

and by your logic the Hindus in Germany should not tie the knot in a mandir and should not take those pheraz ??


Do you even understand personal laws and difference between law of that land ??

 

[arun]

Plz learn about secularism and communism, both are different.

I have done several courses in Sociology and I am perfectly aware of what Communism is. I was just saying that the kind of society that you were referring to (no religion in public or private) is not Secularism. Of course, it is not Communism. Maybe I should mention Marxism-Leninism in its place? Anyway, in most of the significant Communist regimes, religions have been heavily persecuted, with the Soviet Union and China being the prime examples. This is what I meant.

and by your logic the Hindus in Germany should not tie the knot in a mandir and should not take those pheraz ??

Do you even understand personal laws and difference between law of that land ??

Yes, I understand the difference, I think. Anyway, about your first question - if there were to be such a law, then it would not be secular. However, what "the law of the land" argument does mean is that if the law requires you to register the marriage, then you have to do so. Perform the marriage as per your customs, but then follow the law and register your marriage.

And you would also be interested to know that Hindus in the UK (and many other places, I presume) are not allowed to have funeral pyres. They have to use crematoriums. And they abide by the law.

So, of course, your point cannot be entirely dismissed, because there is always going to be a constant balancing act between the law and the religion/culture of minorities. However, ordinarily, the minorities should obey the law and fight their case legally, or not go there.

 

[LaBong]

and by your logic the Hindus in Germany should not tie the knot in a mandir and should not take those pheraz ??


Do you even understand personal laws and difference between law of that land ??

The can tie knot and make pheraz but that won't be legal marriage according to German law. Hope you know the difference between law and rituals.