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Genetic Map of Pakistan

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Thanks all for tagging me guys - yeh I love this @Indus Priest King How did I miss this guy? I will join in when I have read up this great thread.

I'm new.

I was introduced to this all one day when I picked up the book "The Indus Saga" by Aitezaz Ehsan. That book completely changed my perspective. Since then, I've been pushing my Indus nationalist ideology at my FB page "Ancient Pakistan".

11,000 likes and counting.
 
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"The Indus Saga" by Aitezaz Ehsan.
Fantastic. And I also got "converted" by that book. I had some ideas of a Indus entity but it was very loose and not well informed. After reading that book everything in mind cleared up and I became as you say "Indus nationalist".


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And I had a look at your page. Fantastic stuff. All power to you. Don't give up on this effort.

https://www.facebook.com/AncientPakistan.pk/

Ahhhh hahahaha you even have the Indus Pakistan Ganga India [Gangadesh] thing going ......


26173267_1766814536711856_7811839209666605643_o.png
 
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I am an Indus nationalist. I yearn for the day Pakistanis embrace their rich Indus heritage, and I believe slowly people are waking up.

Its the future for us no doubt. Our society's hyper "religiouzed" for lack of any other identity. A stronger ethno-geographic identity will do wonders for our inferiority complex viz a viz the Arabs and Europeans for example. However this will take time.
 
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Its the future for us no doubt. Our society's hyper "religiouzed" for lack of any other identity. A stronger ethno-geographic identity will do wonders for our inferiority complex viz a viz the Arabs and Europeans for example. However this will take time.

I believe so...however, someone has to turn the ship in the right direction.

You'd be surprised...how many hyper Indian nationalists and Pakistani Islamists think alike. Both like cursing my Facebook page and my posts. :lol:

That shouldn't come to a surprise. Afterall, all the Islamic parties opposed Pakistan in 1947 anyway.
 
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Fantastic. And I also got "converted" by that book. I had some ideas of a Indus entity but it was very loose and not well informed. After reading that book everything in mind cleared up and I became as you say "Indus nationalist".


View attachment 473570

And I had a look at your page. Fantastic stuff. All power to you. Don't give up on this effort.

https://www.facebook.com/AncientPakistan.pk/

Ahhhh hahahaha you even have the Indus Pakistan Ganga India [Gangadesh] thing going ......


26173267_1766814536711856_7811839209666605643_o.png
I believe so...however, someone has to turn the ship in the right direction.

You'd be surprised...how many hyper Indian nationalists and Pakistani Islamists think alike. Both like cursing my Facebook page and my posts. :lol:

That shouldn't come to a surprise. Afterall, all the Islamic parties opposed Pakistan in 1947 anyway.
Been a follower of your page for long bro.
 
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I am an Indus nationalist. I yearn for the day Pakistanis embrace their rich Indus heritage, and I believe slowly people are waking up.

Very glad to see a person with very good perspective. All the power to you and just checked your facebook page, pity that i didn't stumble across it before.

Welcome to the forum; your posts would be a great addition.
 
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Good to see proponents of a united Pakistani identity under one roof. All the deluded sub-ethnic fascists and hyper religious fundos need to be converted to this cause to stop foreign countries/groups from fomenting trouble and causing Pakistanis to kill their other Pakistani brothers/sisters. We all have shared history and inevitably shared destiny. The sooner we Pakistanis realise this, the quicker we can get on with developing our great nation.

Also, @Indus Priest King Great thread. Good to see you here. :tup:

@Sher Shah Awan @Kaptaan @DESERT FIGHTER @war&peace @Spring Onion
I wonder how that lunatic "Vishvamitra" will take this news:lol:, no doubt he will head for the balcony lol.

I honestly think the fella is experiencing serious inferiority issues. He's just mad he doesn't hail from the beautiful land of IVC. :lol:
 
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Good to see proponents of a united Pakistani identity under one roof. All the deluded sub-ethnic fascists and hyper religious fundos need to be converted to this cause to stop foreign countries/groups from fomenting trouble and causing Pakistanis to kill their other Pakistani brothers/sisters. We all have shared history and inevitably shared destiny. The sooner we Pakistanis realise this, the quicker we can get on with developing our great nation.

Also, @Indus Priest King Great thread. Good to see you hear. :tup:

This is where I might sort of sway away...I do accept the fact that we share similarities among ourselves, but Pakistan should be viewed as a multi-ethnic country. We are a collection of different nations, each with its own rich history and culture and language and every nation in this country should be celebrated equally. Each quam in Pakistan has a story to tell. The history of Sindh for example is vastly different from the history of Punjab.

I agree and support the concept that we share history, culture and languages...but still...I am a big proponent of provincial rights and regional languages. It is this that will promote strengthen Pakistani nationalism...when each quam feels part of the country.

This is why I am against the phrase "na Punjabi, na Sindhi, na Baluch" etc.
 
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This is where I might sort of sway away...I do accept the fact that we share similarities among ourselves, but Pakistan should be viewed as a multi-ethnic country. We are a collection of different nations, each with its own rich history and culture and language and every nation in this country should be celebrated equally. Each quam in Pakistan has a story to tell. The history of Sindh for example is vastly different from the history of Punjab.

I agree and support the concept that we share history, culture and languages...but still...I am a big proponent of provincial rights and regional languages. It is this that will promote strengthen Pakistani nationalism...when each quam feels part of the country.

This is why I am against the phrase "na Punjabi, na Sindhi, na Baluch" etc.

I respect that. I have no qualms with people celebrating their local identities as long as they don't put it above that of a common Pakistani identity. Ethnic fascism and religious sectarian is a disease tearing this country apart.

I am not in favour of forcing people to denounce any part of their identity, I respect and promote diversity of the different cultures of Pakistan. Just not when it takes precedent over Pakistan. Also, in my view and what I hope for is that in a few hundred years time, most Pakistani groups would have mixed so much that they will begin to identify solely as Pakistani and consider their other backgrounds as more historic parts of their identity. A bit like how the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians are all considered part of the English ethnic identity. This is quite a long topic and one I don't want to derail this thread with. But you and I only differ 10% on this topic. So Welcome aboard!
 
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See how the Pakistan component dominates in all Pakistani ethnicities. The slightly Pakistan-shifted Indians are Brahmins and Gujaratis among these samples. Rest of India don't have this component.

source: Dodecad
Does this imply that there is a possibly that Brahamins of India are populations with the "Pakistani" genetic component who migrated through the subcontinent when the climate changed in modern day Pakistan? Some migrated East while some stayed, likely with a reduced population due to reduced carrying capacity of the land. Population then rebounded when climate conditions improved.

It adds credibility to Pakistan being the inheritor of the IVC and its decedents still living in Pakistan today with a portion of the ancient population dispersed in the nation state of India as Brahmans who mixed with the local population.

Centuries after the collapse of IVC in Pakistan, civilization around the Ganges basin rose, possibly due to the IVC migration.
 
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Does this imply that there is a possibly that Brahamins of India are populations with the "Pakistani" genetic component who migrated through the subcontinent when the climate changed in modern day Pakistan? Some migrated East while some stayed, likely with a reduced population due to reduced carrying capacity of the land. Population then rebounded when climate conditions improved.

It adds credibility to Pakistan being the inheritor of the IVC and its decedents still living in Pakistan today with a portion of the ancient population dispersed in the nation state of India as Brahmans who mixed with the local population.

Centuries after the collapse of IVC in Pakistan, civilization the Ganges rose, possibly due to the IVC migration.

This implies a few things:

a. Aryan migration from the west into the Indus Valley indeed occurred beginning in 1800 BCE.

b. Aryans merged with the Harappans over a period of 450 years, giving rise to Indo Aryans in around 1500 BCE. This led to the formation of Vedic Sanskrit, Vedic tribes and Vedic religion or in essence the "Vedic civilization".

c. It appears all the Vedic clans and kingdoms arose at the same time and thus there was no 1 powerful kingdom to wield everyone together. This is what eventually led to the "Battle of Ten Kings".

In the Vedas, a famous battle is said to be have place in 1300 BCE between a confederation of ten tribes and the Bharatas tribe along the River Ravi in Punjab. The Bharatas tribe emerged victorious, BUT the battle was so heavily fought that neither side actually won.

After that battle occurred, the Bharatas are said to have left the Indus Valley and migrated into the Ganga along with there allies (the Kurus for example), while the majority of the tribes remained.

This is where confusion arises. The "official story" is that the Bharatas and there allies took control of the Ganga and wrestled power away from the native Ganga inhabitants, who at that time were the Dravidians. They then wrote the Puranas, Manusmiriti and Mahabharata and pushed the Dravidians into the south. This myth has remained to this day.

Genetically however, this isn't the case at all. From what we can see, North Indian populations are indistinguishable from South Indian populations, who are Dravidian. This means that the current North Indian population are descendants of the original Ganga inhabitants, and hence Dravidian as well. This then obviously means that the Bharatas tribe and there allies must have merged into the local Ganga culture and peoples.

It's this merging which formed what we call Puranic Hinduism or Brahmanism and out of this Vishnu, a Ganga god.
 
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Does this imply that there is a possibly that Brahamins of India are populations with the "Pakistani" genetic component who migrated through the subcontinent when the climate changed in modern day Pakistan? Some migrated East while some stayed, likely with a reduced population due to reduced carrying capacity of the land. Population then rebounded when climate conditions improved.

I have not studied in detail when and why some ancestors of Brahmins moved to India, but clearly, they have a connection to Pakistan, albeit a small fraction of their genes - but most of their genes is typically Indian that they share with neighboring Indians.

My guess would be that a small number of Vedic invaders moved into India. It could be that they were indeed looking for greener pastures, or maybe inter-tribal conflict drove some few weak tribe(s) further into Indian peninsula.

The Vedic connection is proved by the fact that Brahmin men carry R1a in very high frequencies. (There are other lower status/caste groups with some men carrying R1a, but those are most likely due to Non-Parental Events). Their women on the other hand carry, mostly, local mtdna M.

However, to put things in perspective, Brahmins are only 1-3% of India's population. And the fraction of their genes they share with us is also not very significant.
 
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