Generals exempted from property tax

[blain2]

But I certainly have a problem when huge sums are wasted on total unnecessary stuff that I mentioned in my last few posts. People try to build their careers on public expanse by going out all the way to make them happy. Seniors too set wrong precedents and use their position to abuse service property. And the dilemma is that it rising and rising. Every new guy goes a step further than his predecessor and there seems to be no end to it. Acts that were considered intolerable and punishable in past have now become legit because we have renamed them as PERKS.

Yes I concur. I would suggest people to read "From First Post to last Post". Its a good book about the trends and culture in the contemporary Pakistan Army.

 

[dabong1]

Dabong, I disagree with your overt generalization in the other direction as well.

The vast majority of the Army 98% is busy in the exact same job as you suggest I.E. "the army is to protect the country not make money."

Fauji foundation and its retired leadership cannot be taken to represent the Army. The Army's budget, overhead etc., is all separate and different from any of these other business conglomerates that people talk about and link with the Army.

The Generals, when in uniform (all the Corps commanders etc.) are very tightly monitored by intelligence and the chain of command for various reasons. Someone's huge bank asset is not an easy thing to hide. There are security implications for the country if this is not checked and tracked closely.

Now if someone suggests that the Generals may have offshore accounts, then the same suggestion can be made about any general in the US Army or Indian Army. I would like to see records of any of these gentlemen (not saying its never happened, yet its not as common as the propaganda is made out to be).

The bottom line is that most of the Army is minding its business and training. There is an inherent bias against the Army for the services it provides to its people and this builds resentment. I can guarantee you one thing, you give same allocation of funding to the Army and to another civilian entity and the Army will build, maintain and service this project better than the civilian entity. The reasons for this are many, but when the Army becomes a target for all to bash, then nobody looks at the technicalities of how Army or any of the other conglomerates built by retired armed forces personnel work better.

If someone did this objectively, maybe they would learn a lesson or two on how to run things better....but such is not the way of Pakistanis.

Regards

So you have no problem with either the NAB or some other equivalent investigation agency looking into the bank records of past and present senior military officers like we did with the politicians to find any corrupt elements workin within?

 

[roadrunner]

So you have no problem with either the NAB or some other equivalent investigation agency looking into the bank records of past and present senior military officers like we did with the politicians to find any corrupt elements workin within?

This name suits you well dabonga, as yet again you've proved to get your facts wrong. NAB have not only looked into the bank records of past and present military officers, they have prosecuted entire heads of of the Army and Navy to the amount of millions of rupees!

Case in point :

FORMER CHIEF OF PAKISTAN NAVY SURRENDERS US $ 7.5 MILLION
ACCEPTED AS COMMISSIONS AND KICKBACKS IN DEFENCE DEALS

(EX-ADMIRAL) MANSUR-UL-HAQ, SETTLES HIS INDICTMENT BY PLEABARGAIN
AS GOVT. OF PAKISTAN STRIPPS OFF HIS RANK AND REVOKES
POST RETIREMENT SERVICE PRIVILEGES

http://www.nab.gov.pk/Downloads/Case_studies/mansoorulhaq.pdf

Now that you know NAB is prosecuting ex heads of the military to recover money spent, the evidence should suggest to you that NAB is willing and able to prosecute corruption cases against the military.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So you have no problem with either the NAB or some other equivalent investigation agency looking into the bank records of past and present senior military officers like we did with the politicians to find any corrupt elements workin within?

I think Blain suggested that the Army is already doing that.....

The Generals, when in uniform (all the Corps commanders etc.) are very tightly monitored by intelligence and the chain of command for various reasons. Someone's huge bank asset is not an easy thing to hide. There are security implications for the country if this is not checked and tracked closely.

 

[dabong1]

This name suits you well dabonga, as yet again you've proved to get your facts wrong. NAB have not only looked into the bank records of past and present military officers, they have prosecuted entire heads of of the Army and Navy to the amount of millions of rupees!

Now that you know NAB is prosecuting ex heads of the military to recover money spent, the evidence should suggest to you that NAB is willing and able to prosecute corruption cases against the military.

Wow one person from the military...what about the list below how many of them have been investigated proplerly or charged?





- Air Chief Marshal Abbas Khattak (retired) had received Rs180 million as kickbacks in the purchase of 40 old Mirage fighters

- Air Chief Marshal, Farooq Feroz Khan was suspected of receiving a five per cent commission on the purchase of 40 F-7 planes worth $271 million

- In 1996, the Army bought 1,047 GS-90s jeeps, at a cost of $20,889 per unit. The market value of a jeep then was only $13,000. According to the National Accountability Bureau (NAB), Pakistan’s main accountability organization, some senior Army officers made Rs. 510 million in the deal.

- One hundred and eleven Army men got 400 plots in Bahawalpur and Rahimyar Khan districts at throwaway prices, paying Rs. 47.50 per kanal (1/8th of a acre) as against the actual price of Rs15,000 to Rs20,000 (1US$=Rs. 56). Another 35,000 kanals were distributed among them.

- Six respondents got 400 kanals in the Punjab while former NAB chairman Lt. Gen Mohammad Amjad was allotted a two-kanal plot on the Sarwar Road in Lahore for just Rs. 800,000 - payable in installments over 20 years. The market value of this plot was Rs. 20 million.

- General Pervez Musharraf acquired a commercial plot worth Rs 20 million at DHA in Lahore for just Rs. 100,000, payable in 20 years. "As mentioned in the report of defense services director-general, a loss of Rs 5 billion was incurred due to such allotments."

- The Army awarded a contract for the purchase of 1,000 Hino trucks at $40,000 per unit while the local Gandhara Industries had offered trucks of the same specification for $25,000 a piece. In the purchase of 3,000 Land Rover jeeps in 1995, Army officials allegedly received around Rs. 2 billion as kickbacks.

- The Army management at WAPDA raised the power tariff 13 times during the last three years besides purchasing electric meters at Rs. 1,050 a piece against the open market price of Rs. 456, causing a loss of Rs 1.65 billion to the national exchequer.

- A former military regime sold the Pak-Saudi Fertilizers for Rs. 7 billion and earned a Rs 2 billion commission on the deal.

- In 1996, the Pakistan Navy spent Rs. 13 million on installing air-conditioners at the Islamabad Golf Club without any justification.

Apart from this petition some other major scams involving serving or ex members of the military junta are as follows:

- Ex Army chief General Jahangir Karamat took kickbacks of more than US$ 20 Million from Ukrainian tank company for purchase of 300 Ukrainian tanks for Pakistan Army through a middleman named as Colonel Mahmood , a brother tank corps officer of Karamat . Former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif sent the present chief of the WAPDA Major General Zulfiqar, then serving in ISI, to Ukraine and Azerbaijan to investigate the scam.

- General Zulfiqar compiled a complete report of the transaction and the bribes given. But the Army tried to buy him out by rewarding him with the post of WAPDA Chairman and promoting him to the rank of a three star General. The then Army Chief, General Jahangir Karamat was forced to resign, based on the threat that if he did not, he would be charged for corruption.

- Many road contracts were given to a firm Hasnain Construction company without any public tenders by the recently removed Railways and Communication minister General Qazi. The company, owned by a relative of General Pervez Musharraf’s son, was also awarded the lease of a lucrative real estate in Lahore for construction of a Golf Course under frontmanship of Palm Country Golf Club, Singapore. The relative of General Musharraf admitted publicly that he was working for a commission to use his contacts and influence for the company.

- Prime commercial land developed in Defence Housing Authority Karachi was leased at dirt heap rates to McDonalds operated by Amin Lakhani by the then Corps Commander, Karachi Lt. General Afzal Janjua.

- The Army’s coercive organ NAB struck various under the table deals with various individuals accused of high profile economic crimes in addition to arm twisting NAB defaulters, into joining the present government.

 

[blain2]

So you have no problem with either the NAB or some other equivalent investigation agency looking into the bank records of past and present senior military officers like we did with the politicians to find any corrupt elements workin within?

No I do not. They will not find much...I am fairly confident of that. Not everyone is involved in procurement and induction within the Army. There are specific branches and personnel who are responsible for such things. Financial discipline is as such that even if an individual officer bounces a check/cheque written to the bank, the CO hears about it.

I am sure there are some black sheep, but the Army has an internal system to check financial irregularities. Having an external entity like NAB to go into Armed Forces and do the same is duplication and would also result is hurting the morale.

 

[blain2]

Wow one person from the military...what about the list below how many of them have been investigated proplerly or charged?





- Air Chief Marshal Abbas Khattak (retired) had received Rs180 million as kickbacks in the purchase of 40 old Mirage fighters

- Air Chief Marshal, Farooq Feroz Khan was suspected of receiving a five per cent commission on the purchase of 40 F-7 planes worth $271 million

- In 1996, the Army bought 1,047 GS-90s jeeps, at a cost of $20,889 per unit. The market value of a jeep then was only $13,000. According to the National Accountability Bureau (NAB), Pakistan’s main accountability organization, some senior Army officers made Rs. 510 million in the deal.

- One hundred and eleven Army men got 400 plots in Bahawalpur and Rahimyar Khan districts at throwaway prices, paying Rs. 47.50 per kanal (1/8th of a acre) as against the actual price of Rs15,000 to Rs20,000 (1US$=Rs. 56). Another 35,000 kanals were distributed among them.

- Six respondents got 400 kanals in the Punjab while former NAB chairman Lt. Gen Mohammad Amjad was allotted a two-kanal plot on the Sarwar Road in Lahore for just Rs. 800,000 - payable in installments over 20 years. The market value of this plot was Rs. 20 million.

- General Pervez Musharraf acquired a commercial plot worth Rs 20 million at DHA in Lahore for just Rs. 100,000, payable in 20 years. "As mentioned in the report of defense services director-general, a loss of Rs 5 billion was incurred due to such allotments."

- The Army awarded a contract for the purchase of 1,000 Hino trucks at $40,000 per unit while the local Gandhara Industries had offered trucks of the same specification for $25,000 a piece. In the purchase of 3,000 Land Rover jeeps in 1995, Army officials allegedly received around Rs. 2 billion as kickbacks.

- The Army management at WAPDA raised the power tariff 13 times during the last three years besides purchasing electric meters at Rs. 1,050 a piece against the open market price of Rs. 456, causing a loss of Rs 1.65 billion to the national exchequer.

- A former military regime sold the Pak-Saudi Fertilizers for Rs. 7 billion and earned a Rs 2 billion commission on the deal.

- In 1996, the Pakistan Navy spent Rs. 13 million on installing air-conditioners at the Islamabad Golf Club without any justification.

Apart from this petition some other major scams involving serving or ex members of the military junta are as follows:

- Ex Army chief General Jahangir Karamat took kickbacks of more than US$ 20 Million from Ukrainian tank company for purchase of 300 Ukrainian tanks for Pakistan Army through a middleman named as Colonel Mahmood , a brother tank corps officer of Karamat . Former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif sent the present chief of the WAPDA Major General Zulfiqar, then serving in ISI, to Ukraine and Azerbaijan to investigate the scam.

- General Zulfiqar compiled a complete report of the transaction and the bribes given. But the Army tried to buy him out by rewarding him with the post of WAPDA Chairman and promoting him to the rank of a three star General. The then Army Chief, General Jahangir Karamat was forced to resign, based on the threat that if he did not, he would be charged for corruption.

- Many road contracts were given to a firm Hasnain Construction company without any public tenders by the recently removed Railways and Communication minister General Qazi. The company, owned by a relative of General Pervez Musharraf’s son, was also awarded the lease of a lucrative real estate in Lahore for construction of a Golf Course under frontmanship of Palm Country Golf Club, Singapore. The relative of General Musharraf admitted publicly that he was working for a commission to use his contacts and influence for the company.

- Prime commercial land developed in Defence Housing Authority Karachi was leased at dirt heap rates to McDonalds operated by Amin Lakhani by the then Corps Commander, Karachi Lt. General Afzal Janjua.

- The Army’s coercive organ NAB struck various under the table deals with various individuals accused of high profile economic crimes in addition to arm twisting NAB defaulters, into joining the present government.

Dabong,

What is the source of these accusations? I am sure some may be true while others are simply accusation. As far as you asking have they been investigated, I am sure most of them have. However the issue remains inside of the service and appropriate disciplinary actions are taken. I doubt the stuff about the kickbacks in the aircraft deal as they are just accusations. Both of those deals were so small and transparent, that the claims just look defamatory to be very honest.

The rest of the stuff is made up of the typical civilian gripe about the plots. "he then Army Chief, General Jahangir Karamat was forced to resign, based on the threat that if he did not, he would be charged for corruption."

Come on now...lets get real here if we think an Army chief would be forced to resign because someone has a flimsy claim of him taking kickbacks on the Ukrainian tank deal....I mean this list is a compilation of unsubstantiated trash against every single senior Armed Forces officer and every single major defence deal...its a very easy thing to do if someone wants to paint a picture of doubt about the transparency in such deals...just put a whole bunch of names and a whole bunch of deals together and you have every one convinced that "Daal may kutch kaala hai" given the prevailing "bash Army" trend...

Since in Pakistan there is no threat of getting sued for Libel and defamation, everything goes.

 

[dabong1]

Dabong,

What is the source of these accusations? I am sure some may be true while others are simply accusation. As far as you asking have they been investigated, I am sure most of them have. However the issue remains inside of the service and appropriate disciplinary actions are taken. I doubt the stuff about the kickbacks in the aircraft deal as they are just accusations. Both of those deals were so small and transparent, that the claims just look defamatory to be very honest.

The rest of the stuff is made up of the typical civilian gripe about the plots. "he then Army Chief, General Jahangir Karamat was forced to resign, based on the threat that if he did not, he would be charged for corruption."

Come on now...lets get real here if we think an Army chief would be forced to resign because someone has a flimsy claim of him taking kickbacks on the Ukrainian tank deal....I mean this list is a compilation of unsubstantiated trash against every single senior Armed Forces officer and every single major defence deal...its a very easy thing to do if someone wants to paint a picture of doubt about the transparency in such deals...just put a whole bunch of names and a whole bunch of deals together and you have every one convinced that "Daal may kutch kaala hai" given the prevailing "bash Army" trend...

Since in Pakistan there is no threat of getting sued for Libel and defamation, everything goes.

The point i am trying to make is that the army is not a "Holier Then Thou" organization.
I can not understand why the polticians corruption can not be passed off as " just a whole bunch of names and a whole bunch of deals together and you have every one convinced that "Daal may kutch kaala hai" .

 

[roadrunner]

Wow one person from the military...what about the list below how many of them have been investigated proplerly or charged?





- Air Chief Marshal Abbas Khattak (retired) had received Rs180 million as kickbacks in the purchase of 40 old Mirage fighters

- Air Chief Marshal, Farooq Feroz Khan was suspected of receiving a five per cent commission on the purchase of 40 F-7 planes worth $271 million

- In 1996, the Army bought 1,047 GS-90s jeeps, at a cost of $20,889 per unit. The market value of a jeep then was only $13,000. According to the National Accountability Bureau (NAB), Pakistan’s main accountability organization, some senior Army officers made Rs. 510 million in the deal.

- One hundred and eleven Army men got 400 plots in Bahawalpur and Rahimyar Khan districts at throwaway prices, paying Rs. 47.50 per kanal (1/8th of a acre) as against the actual price of Rs15,000 to Rs20,000 (1US$=Rs. 56). Another 35,000 kanals were distributed among them.

- Six respondents got 400 kanals in the Punjab while former NAB chairman Lt. Gen Mohammad Amjad was allotted a two-kanal plot on the Sarwar Road in Lahore for just Rs. 800,000 - payable in installments over 20 years. The market value of this plot was Rs. 20 million.

- General Pervez Musharraf acquired a commercial plot worth Rs 20 million at DHA in Lahore for just Rs. 100,000, payable in 20 years. "As mentioned in the report of defense services director-general, a loss of Rs 5 billion was incurred due to such allotments."

- The Army awarded a contract for the purchase of 1,000 Hino trucks at $40,000 per unit while the local Gandhara Industries had offered trucks of the same specification for $25,000 a piece. In the purchase of 3,000 Land Rover jeeps in 1995, Army officials allegedly received around Rs. 2 billion as kickbacks.

- The Army management at WAPDA raised the power tariff 13 times during the last three years besides purchasing electric meters at Rs. 1,050 a piece against the open market price of Rs. 456, causing a loss of Rs 1.65 billion to the national exchequer.

- A former military regime sold the Pak-Saudi Fertilizers for Rs. 7 billion and earned a Rs 2 billion commission on the deal.

- In 1996, the Pakistan Navy spent Rs. 13 million on installing air-conditioners at the Islamabad Golf Club without any justification.

Apart from this petition some other major scams involving serving or ex members of the military junta are as follows:

- Ex Army chief General Jahangir Karamat took kickbacks of more than US$ 20 Million from Ukrainian tank company for purchase of 300 Ukrainian tanks for Pakistan Army through a middleman named as Colonel Mahmood , a brother tank corps officer of Karamat . Former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif sent the present chief of the WAPDA Major General Zulfiqar, then serving in ISI, to Ukraine and Azerbaijan to investigate the scam.

- General Zulfiqar compiled a complete report of the transaction and the bribes given. But the Army tried to buy him out by rewarding him with the post of WAPDA Chairman and promoting him to the rank of a three star General. The then Army Chief, General Jahangir Karamat was forced to resign, based on the threat that if he did not, he would be charged for corruption.

- Many road contracts were given to a firm Hasnain Construction company without any public tenders by the recently removed Railways and Communication minister General Qazi. The company, owned by a relative of General Pervez Musharraf’s son, was also awarded the lease of a lucrative real estate in Lahore for construction of a Golf Course under frontmanship of Palm Country Golf Club, Singapore. The relative of General Musharraf admitted publicly that he was working for a commission to use his contacts and influence for the company.

- Prime commercial land developed in Defence Housing Authority Karachi was leased at dirt heap rates to McDonalds operated by Amin Lakhani by the then Corps Commander, Karachi Lt. General Afzal Janjua.

- The Army’s coercive organ NAB struck various under the table deals with various individuals accused of high profile economic crimes in addition to arm twisting NAB defaulters, into joining the present government.

LOL. I like the way you don't give the website you took all that from? Are you too ashamed to admit where you get your information from? Here is it.. Good ole' convicted criminal Bibi herself!

Pakistan Peoples Party

As for your assertion that it is the ONLY military man convicted by NAB. That's incorrect. Many military personnel have been convicted by NAB, the Admiral happens to be the biggest catch. That is why he is a model example of NAB prosecuting military members on their website. If you want to know more military personnel that have been prosecuted by NAB, search around ALL websites, and not only those of Bhutto.

According to a recent World Bank report, the NAB “successfully prosecuted a large number of high government officials, politicians, senior military officers and major tax and loan defaulters.” The NAB was made responsible for investigating cases of corruption as well as prosecuting the corrupt. In 2001-2002, in the investigative area, the Bureau was authorized to pursue 1,060 cases of which 372 were completed and 80 were closed. In the area of prosecution, the Bureau filed 397 cases in the courts of which 198 were decided. Among the decided cases, 169 convictions were received while 23 charged persons were acquitted. At 85 per cent, the rate of conviction was very high. At the moment, 199 cases are in progress in the courts.
Pakistan Link - Letter & Opinion

Now, as has already been said, NAB will only prosecute the senior officers int he military, while the junior ones will be taken care of by the internal system.

Once again, you seem to be the one singling out the Army, whilst ignoring the ills of Bhutto (in fact quoting her website). Improvements are all RELATIVE.

 

[blain2]

The point i am trying to make is that the army is not a "Holier Then Thou" organization.
I can not understand why the polticians corruption can not be passed off as " just a whole bunch of names and a whole bunch of deals together and you have every one convinced that "Daal may kutch kaala hai" .

Its not. The monies that have been retrieved from the politicians alone is in mind boggling sums. The corruption was there for all to see in the public sector. The same went on with some of those involved at the very top (Adm Mansoor-ul-Haq etc.).

I do not want to carry on unnecessarily on this topic. Corruption exists everywhere with varying levels. PA is no different. The only difference in the Armed Forces is that if the corruption is found and proven then the punishment is severe and immediate so this in itself is a major deterrence which quite frankly is wholly missing in the civilian society. You do not need watchdogs to tell the military penal system to move against an offender. Its done in order to maintain discipline. Allegations of misappropriations usually cannot be wished away on the basis of leveraging influence of the chachay/mamay in the armed forces. You get busted for financial irregularities then you face the music.

Now like ANY other system in the world, people find loopholes and some corruption happens. Nobody would deny that, however the level of corruption in the civilian society and that in the armed forces is vastly different.