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Featured General Qamar Javed Bajwa to visit Saudi Arabia next week

It seems everyone is afraid of Bajwa selling out.
I see this more as good cop, bad cop routine.
The Americans, directly and through the Saudis, are trying to undermine CPEC and they see Pakistan as the weak link, which in my opinion is what this is actually about, as well as Pakistan's growing closeness to countries Saudi Arabia sees as competitors and enemies.
I don't think Pakistan can be swayed in its move away from the US/Saudi bloc, hence the sharp reactions on both sides.
The Kashmir thing, in my opinion, was just a smokescreen from the Pakistani side.
 
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Iran was actually the first country to say that Makkah and Madina should be an independent territory to avoid political influence and they are right, that is how it should have been.

It seems like an unrealistic idea but it really isn't. If just Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, and Malaysia alone supported this idea without actually doing it, it would severely undermine the credentials of Saudi leadership in the Muslim world.
Why people see the Saudis as leaders of the Muslims baffles me. A country that can't take a piss without permission from Washington can never be seen as a leader of anything, let alone the Muslims.
 
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forget placating or lollipop n my view Bajwa is called to explain his country for the insolence expressed by SMQ against the Saudi royal highness.
I think Bajwa might have to stake the telling off for SMQ rants.
Saudis dont talk criticism lightly. valid or invalid is irrelevant. Saudis simply dont take criticism lightly
we dont look good talking like that when we are owed money to Saudis.
If they wanted to do that why call him there. A harsh remark from the King or MBS would have been enough. No this is much more than what you are portraying. Incidentally the money has been paid.
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Sorry, i didn't know that Iran Gov't supported Pak on Kashmir issue, I thought they were still mostly on Indian side.
 
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So put yourself in his boots and lets hear what you will do. It is easier to criticize but reality has a price that needs to be paid.
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For Pakistan, somebody someday needs to take a stand and if QJB is such a patriotic soldier, it's his time to prove it. We always had a good relationship with KSA all along but we won't be at the suffering end if MBS is an Indophile.
 
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Iran was actually the first country to say that Makkah and Madina should be an independent territory to avoid political influence and they are right, that is how it should have been.

It seems like an unrealistic idea but it really isn't. If just Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, and Malaysia alone supported this idea without actually doing it, it would severely undermine the credentials of Saudi leadership in the Muslim world.
Please dont talk ofthe deviousness of Iran and its Ayatullahs. I dont want to open up on open forum but they are no better if not worse than the house of Saud. They have specific agendas and none of it is good. If they are so realistic/open ask them to allow just a single Sunni mosque to run in Iran.
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People need to divorce Makkah and Madinah from the Saudi Royal family and Saudi Arabia.
We cannot be expected to take dictation from the Saudis on every matter of import.

I agree with you, but in mind of average Pakistani they are one and the same
 
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For Pakistan, somebody someday needs to take a stand and if QJB is such a patriotic soldier, it's his time to prove it. We always had a good relationship with KSA all along but we won't be at the suffering end if MBS is an Indophile.
Diplomacy is about getting as much as can of what you want while doing the least amount of damage to the relationship.
That is what is going on.
SMQ kicked the door in, QJB will repair it the best he can.
In the meantime the policy shift has been established.
 
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For Pakistan, somebody someday needs to take a stand and if QJB is such a patriotic soldier, it's his time to prove it. We always had a good relationship with KSA all along but we won't be at the suffering end if MBS is an Indophile.
OK. I understand where you are coming from and you essentially are expressing the same fears that I am. My friend times have changed and realities of life have made all countries make pacts with the very devil they curse morning and evening. India and its rising market has become a need for the Sauds and the Nahyans. This is mostly because of the crookedness of our own people as we have always gone for short term gains rather than long term results. Arab money in Pakistan has been squandered very unscrupulously by our polity and business community.If we had played our cards right and done good business we would have had tons of money being invested. Instead the Sauds and Nahyans are afraid to invest in Pakistan. India is a good market and trading terms are better as are people. There are other perks as well. We need a policy which will allow the Arabs to invest in Pakistan as well as India. However the present scuffle is much more than a few dollars. This is strategic planning which Pakistan is not happy about. I suspect whereas we were aggrieved by the Sauds holding us from joining the Turk Malaysia conference, certain promises were made in return.Pakistan has kept its bargain but the Arabs have not. The establishment in Pakistan can no longer afford to tow the Saudi line without any consideration as annexation of kashmir is a life or death situation for Pakistan. The Sauds are being selfish and Bajwa will be helpful in making them swallow a bitter pill of realization that bargains need to be two sided. He will be tested to the maximum, and this is our fear. An accompaniment from amongst the political setup would have been more prudent but the political setup has placed its faith in Bajwa and lets hope he can achieve his aims.
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OK. I understand where you are coming from and you essentially are expressing the same fears that I am. My friend times have changed and realities of life have made all countries make pacts with the very devil they curse morning and evening. India and its rising market has become a need for the Sauds and the Nahyans. This is mostly because of the crookedness of our own people as we have always gone for short term gains rather than long term results. Arab money in Pakistan has been squandered very unscrupulously by our polity and business community.If we had played our cards right and done good business we would have had tons of money being invested. Instead the Sauds and Nahyans are afraid to invest in Pakistan. India is a good market and trading terms are better as are people. There are other perks as well. We need a policy which will allow the Arabs to invest in Pakistan as well as India. However the present scuffle is much more than a few dollars. This is strategic planning which Pakistan is not happy about. I suspect whereas we were aggrieved by the Sauds holding us from joining the Turk Malaysia conference, certain promises were made in return.Pakistan has kept its bargain but the Arabs have not. The establishment in Pakistan can no longer afford to tow the Saudi line without any consideration as annexation of kashmir is a life or death situation for Pakistan. The Sauds are being selfish and Bajwa will be helpful in making them swallow a bitter pill of realization that bargains need to be two sided. He will be tested to the maximum, and this is our fear. An accompaniment from amongst the political setup would have been more prudent but the political setup has placed its faith in Bajwa and lets hope he can achieve his aims.
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Very well summarised and articulated.
 
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If they wanted to do that why call him there. A harsh remark from the King or MBS would have been enough. No this is much more than what you are portraying. Incidentally the money has been paid.
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my comment was semi serious but have lived and worked with Saudis for a long period so there is some merit in their grudge issues. on Principle I dont disagree with what SMQ said but we have nothing to stand on.

Agree that there might be more to what Gen Bajwa has been summoned for. our services are not required regarding Middle eastern proxy wars so ts a mystery.

People need to divorce Makkah and Madinah from the Saudi Royal family and Saudi Arabia.
We cannot be expected to take dictation from the Saudis on every matter of import.
in order to do such thing one has to have common sense and free of fake and misplaced religious emotions.
Pakistanis dont have the mental capacity to distinguish Hijaz from Saudi tribe turnd royals thanks to our former Imperial masters.

So predictable ...... Such a terrible example of running to SA everytime these Saudis have a hissy fit. Pakistan people do not deserve such humiliation of their so called powerful military leaders running to SA like this. This needs to STOP.
maybe Saudis have decided to treat us as their equals and listen to our requests to cease their proxy war with Iran.
 
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No they are trying to patch up differences.One needs to understand that both brotherly nations need one another. Pakistan is hurt by Saudi insensitivity over kashmir but there maybe other issues. People who think it was SMQ alone who let out a Barak are grievously mistaken. Sometimes these messages are let out for a reason and then the other side latches on to the seriousnes of the situation and tries to patch the situation up. I think it is too soon to predict what is going on but I can bet you anything a very reconciliatory message will come from Riyadh. Rather than the OIC it is the lack of support of the Saudis over kashmir which is trouble some although behind the line certain other financial arrangements will also be made. Bajwa needs to be careful in that he does not make this a personal gain situation rather than a national gain. However if he maintains his stance and I see no reason that he wont Pakistan will gain out of this. I suspect a lot of the previous arrangements will be ratified
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The issue with Saudis is actually not Kashmir. I was watching a video from GVS News on YouTube that did an excellent analysis of the situation.

What basically happened is this: SMQ made some criticism in a statement about Saudis and OIC. At almost the same time Saudis suspended an oil deal and loan which was unrelated to anything SMQ said except the fact that it happened at around the same time. Indian media started speculating, they put 2+2 together and published a hit piece that Saudi is punishing Pakistan for brining up Kashmir at OIC by pulling oil deal and loan. However SMQ Kashmir statement and Saudi reaction is not related in any way besides the fact that it happened around the same time. Typically Indian media is garbage in Pakistan, but this story was a little bit different because Pakistanis themselves believe the same story about Saudis getting angry over Kashmir OIC that Indians cooked up and hence this is giving more credibility to Indian media on this story in Pakistan than normal because Pakistanis themselves are saying same thing as Indians.

Saudis are not angry about Kashmir. It might be a factor but it is a side issue for them. Saudis would not cancel an oil deal or call a loan over Kashmir dispute because Saudi is familiar with this Kashmir issue in Pakistan for decades and many years and it is not something new that happened recently. For Saudis, Kashmir is a tiny issue that does not matter to them or affect them in any way. Saudis do not care about Kashmir, it is irrelevant distraction for them, and they would not take drastic steps over something irrelevant to them like Kashmir. There is something else completely separate going on besides Kashmir that caused Saudis to react like this so suddenly. So Kashmir is not the reason for this tension.

Nothing in Kashmir has changed recently. But something else big in Pakistan did change recently.

Think outside the box. Kashmir is small for Saudis. There is a different problem involving Pakistan for Saudis way bigger than Kashmir.

There is something much bigger in Pakistan that is going on that is a problem for Saudis....

Something big has changed recently and suddenly in Pakistan and it is not Kashmir. Think bigger. Much bigger.

Now think about this:

1. What event and recent development happened in last few weeks that involves Pakistan and is very bad for Saudi?

2. What huge change could be a bigger problem for Saudi-Pakistan that has nothing to do with Kashmir?

Remember that Iran-China $400 billion deal from few weeks ago?

That $400 billion Iran-China deal could not have happened without heavy Pakistani involvement.

Basically, in the eyes of Saudis, Pakistan was responsible for pumping $400 billion into Iranian economy vis a vis China.

Saudis are furious at Pakistan for this. Not only was Pakistan at the table between Iran and China to sign this $400 billion deal, it was probably Pakistan that gave Iran and China the idea and brought them to the table to sign this deal in the first place by helping to facilitate and connect the two with CPEC infrastructure links. Now what incentive does Pakistan have to do something like this? From Pakistan's perspective, if the Iran-China deal is $400 billion, probably $100 billion of this will directly or indirectly find its way into Pakistan's economy through infrastructure links either connected, added, or merged from Iran to China into existing Pakistan CPEC infrastructure. It was also in Pakistan's interests to kick India out of Iran and stabilize its borders by getting Iran into Chinese camp. So this $400 billion Iran-China is great news for Iran, Pakistan, and China.

But you know who its bad news for? Saudis, Israelis, and US. Saudis were watching Pakistan in this deal like a hawk. Saudis don't care what Pakistan does in Kashmir, but with China's help, Pakistan singlehandedly engineered the single biggest economic deal in Iran's history since the Iranian Revolution, which set off every alarm in Riyadh. Saudis were caught blindsided and utterly flatfooted by this move. For years, Saudis thought Pakistan was their puppet and that they could ignore Kashmir without consequences. Well, actions have consequences, a lesson the Saudis would soon learn. While the Saudis were busy dumping Kashmir to focus on isolating Qatar and killing Jamal Khashoggi, Pakistan was quietly cooking up its own plans to distance itself from Saudis and get closer to Iran which gave Pakistan among the strongest support for Kashmir along with Turkey and Malaysia. An Iran-China deal was always a long shot that was never really possible on a big scale without Pakistan being onboard with it. For a while Pakistan didn't want to get involved in this, mainly due to what Pakistan believed to be Saudi pressure. However, a change of view and shift of opinion in Islamabad may have occurred after Saudi pressured Pakistan to boycott the Malaysia summit. In this sense, Kashmir was small the issue that triggered the much bigger issues later on. Imran Khan at some point must have realized that acting in alignment with Saudis would inherently mean going against Pakistan's national interest. And it is from this day that Pakistan began realigning itself, quietly with Iran on which Pakistan agrees on many issues. Iran supports Pakistan on Kashmir, but in reality, it is just a piece of one of many things that Pakistan and Iran agree on. Both agree that China is the future, both agree on Kashmir, both have economic difficulties, both share a border, both have common enemies with India/Israel alliance. Saudis disagree with both Iran+Pakistan on almost all of these key issues. It was natural that as both Islamabad and Tehran's tension with Riyadh and Washington increased that Pakistan would look to counter it by leveraging their influence in Tehran and Beijing as Tehran did in Islamabad. The result of this gradual realignment that started after Malaysia summit fiasco was Pakistan's increased willingness to take opposite side of Saudis over a period of time. The ultimate result of these efforts by Pakistan to bridge the gap between Iran and China economically and physically is the $400 billion deal that was unveiled recently.

While Saudis might not care what Pakistan does in Kashmir, they will be angry at Pakistan for facilitating recent Iran-China deal which is a much bigger deal for them than Kashmir as unlike Kashmir, a stronger Iran backed by Pakistan and China has grave implications that directly undermine Saudi interests. Saudis feel that they must punish Pakistan for this, and as it happened, this reaction happened to come at same time as SMQ statement on Kashmir even though Saudi tension has nothing to do with it other than a timing coincidence.
 
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Unless it's the americans or the Western nations doing it............:disagree:
bhai fault lies with us
we lack self respect
our military support is worth much less than we claim
we give them unskilled labour that they can get from India and Bangladesh
we owe them loans
our international standing is nil for them
 
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It's time for Pakistan to leave OIC. When was the last time OIC did anything for Pakistan. They already have blocks inside who fights with each other . May be OIC should invite India as a permanent member since India is such a big market for these Arabs countries.
 
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Let’s be honest folks, the question right now would be far different.

1. What will Saudi do if Pakistan is attacked by India near Karakoram pass?

2. As the Americans are unreliable case and point what happened to Egypt Mubarak and Libya Gadhafi. Does MBS want to be in the Chinese camp who need oil or stay in the American camp who do not need oil?

3. will the Pakistani forces in Saudi support MBS if the council chooses his cousin to be ruler or not? No one thought of this?

In short this meeting is about the people with guns in Saudi will support which ruler and what is MBS willing to give to be King

I believe current Pakistani deployment is about 2000 Ssg commandos on royal protection duty and additional 5-7k forces as part of Yemen defence and other collaboration/ deputations. Can someone please confirm. I am including army air force and navy.

kv

I sometimes feel strange when people refrain from sharing insight.

why not bring our Pakistani Brethren back to Pakistan who function as slaves in the Middle East and use them in building rail and road for CPEC projects.

Our focus should be to link ourselves to CPEC and the world bank project to connect Central Asia and Afghanistan and Iran through Pakistani and irani ports. Let’s focus on making our region stronger.

this is a watershed moment for us. We can end Paskistani slavery in Qatar, uae, Saudi

kv
 
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