General Kayani and Nawaz Sharif

[All-Green]

Did you Know why Army is more Credible than Any Politicians??????.

BCZ My Dear....It is not answerable/accountable to anyone let alone Awam. On the Other hands Politician are answerable to everyone

Opposition
Allies
Parliament
Judiciary
Free Media
Neighbours
And above all
AWAM

Open your Eyes and smell the Cofee!!!

Are you sure you are talking about Pakistan?
In what manner have the politicians answered to the people for their absolutely corrupt and inefficient handling of nearly all matters of the state for the last 3 years?
There is 0% accountability of our politicians except when they try to frame each other, even then they are not jailed or punished, just dismissed from their ministry.
They are all running rampart, with our President and Prime Minister Sahibaan leading the way by practicing open corruption and nepotism!
What in the world do you mean by answerable?
The difference between our politicians and the Army is not that one is the devil and the other is angel, certainly the Army is not full of angels.
However the Army has professional credibility (regardless of what level of corruption there maybe) on its side whereas the Politicians have never ever even tried to do a half decent job because all they want to focus on is to extract as much money out of their position as possible, making hay while the sun shines.

The Army and civil bureaucracy is only strong because the politicians have no agenda that is Pakistan centric. Had someone really put some serious effort into ruling with some sense and honesty towards the cause of Pakistan, they would automatically have diminished the influence of the bureaucracy.

Now i am all for the rulers answering to their people and the supremacy of the elected government but if we decide to run the Army like the Police, this country will be finished!

The Police is the prime example of what damage our politicians can do when given the power to appoint their own blue eyed boys and to transfer those whom they dislike, the Pakistani Policemen has one of the toughest duties in the world because of the absolutely pathetic command and control system that is prevalent due to interference from the politicians.
If the Police was like the Army and was answerable to its chief, it would have performed a hundred times better even if there were many corrupt people in its ranks.
With the way things are, the policeman has to think a hundred times before taking any step due to foreseen and unforeseen political implications which easily lead to his dismissal, suspension or transfer at the hands of political puppets whose masters are offended.

These politicians promise a lot and deliver nothing, that is the sole reason they are detested by most.
What was promised to the nation 3 years ago and what has been delivered?
I hope they are answerable to you, because i have had no idea about this wonderful change in Pakistan whereby our government has become answerable.

Maybe the water and power minister has really done a very good job in 3 years and i am just too biased to applaud his efforts despite the goodwill and confidence generated by his visionary leadership amongst the Pakistani masses.
...
Or maybe he is truly not answerable to you or me for his incompetency and failures!

 

[moha199]

Well i would support Army of Pakistan million times over pakistani politicians, Army can do mistakes but won't destroy Pakistan, where as Politicians just destroy Pakistan! Screw this democracy s-h-i-t! I'm personally done with this FOR Pakistan.... Our generals are great, World is a dirty place to be and our politicians are too naive to play on international and national level. I mean WTF man are they gonna learn how to run Pakistan after destroying? Heck with that, I wish Army come Back or a person who know how to control situation does and his name is Musharraf!!! sorry if i hurt someones feelings but this is my personal opinion!

 

[Solomon2]

Well i would support Army of Pakistan million times over pakistani politicians, Army can do mistakes but won't destroy Pakistan, where as Politicians just destroy Pakistan!

What are you thinking? The Army already destroyed Pakistan back in 1971! Isn't it just that the follies of politicians are more visible so you tend to blame them instead?

 

[All-Green]

What are you thinking? The Army already destroyed Pakistan back in 1971! Isn't it just that the follies of politicians are more visible so you tend to blame them instead?

Well the Army took the fall but it was not solely responsible, it was something which was built up over a couple of decades of mistrust and failure to recognize a potential disaster in the making.
Even when Jinnah was alive some people made a point about Bengali being national language instead of Urdu despite the fact that most people in Sub continent understand Urdu whereas the Pashtuns, Punjabis, Sindhis, Muhajirs etc have no understanding of Bengali.
Yet it was clear that the perception of discrimination could creep in easily and it did over next decades due to reasons both right and wrong.

Dictatorship had its benefits as well; Ayub Khan was responsible for doing a lot of work in both East and West Pakistan and whereas certainly people with bias can gun him down as a dictator, fact of the matter is that he did more for economic development of Pakistan than any other democratic leader to date.

In 71 the man in charge Gen Yahya is portrayed as the architect of doom and certainly his fall from grace in his private life leaves little in way of sympathy towards the man, however the fact is that Yahya inherited a very old problem which had its roots in a power struggle between east and west Pakistan which had started in the 50s.
Gen Yahya actually reversed two things which were quite honestly done to address the concerns of east Pakistan, however it was too late and his good actions were actually used as propaganda by some parties to further fuel the fires of hatred.
He reversed the one unit formula and also restored the one man one vote rule which is the basis of democracy.
His promise to help address the injustices against the east was instead used by some to spread the propaganda that finally the criminal has admitted guilty.
In such trying and impossible situation Yahya looked towards Bhutto to act as a stabilizing force but Bhutto was an arrogant man who had his own axe to grind and did not want to give way to Mujib ur Rehman despite a nearly 2:1 National Assembly seats advantage in favor of Mujib after the general election.
Democracy could be damned as far as Bhutto was concerned and he proved how democratic he was in handling/mishandling the opposition in later years.

Bhutto declared that Mujib won in the east and Bhutto won in the west so they should form a coalition, Bhutto even famously threatened to break the legs of any PPP elected member to attend the inaugural session of National Assembly due to Mujib's refusal of Bhutto's demands.

Yahya is someone who takes all the blame but certainly he does not deserve it all, no matter how pathetic his conduct in his private life became.
The Army was not happy to do the cleanup act as many commanders knew the implications of the political animosity between Bhutto and Mujib, the situation was certainly not conducive for Military operation.
One of the most brilliant Generals in Pakistan Army actually relinquished his command of East Pakistan because he disagreed with the policy of using Army to control the matters which were clearly of a complex political nature and out of hand at that, still the political stalemate actually led to civil unrest and unfortunately Army was called to act.
It was something doomed to failure, yet it was deemed necessary to at least attempt to restore order.

To those well versed with the motives of various parties and the facts, this was not a simple matter which went out of hand just because the military operation was launched.
The blame for civil war actually rests on entire political and military leadership and the civil bureaucracy, not just the military.

The military blunder in the east Pakistan scenario is actually much more highlighted than the political pigheadedness displayed by Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto and his influence on the decisions of Yahya regarding Mujib and his famous uturn later on by having Yahya arrested for doing something which Bhutto was in no manner opposed to.

I wish that the fact finding commission had been given a free hand and the reports should have been used to punish the blunders made by the bureaucracy, military and political leadership, yet Bhutto did not allow the Hamood ur Rehman commission report to be used for public accountability and instead used it to simply bully the military into obedience.

 

[Fracker]

army remains credible as its generals were not replaced by politicians while democracy in Pakistan is incredible as its politicians were always derailed by the generals.

otherwise army is also corrupt but it fortunately knows how to hide it better

The only difference i see in Army vs Democracy arguments is, When Army take over, only some people are doing corruption, but while in democracy 1000+ people join together and damage the country. Which is why Army is more credible then Politics. Also Army does corruption, but also remain with-in limits, but in case of politics they bust all the limits and start to fill up thier international accounts and assets

 

[Solomon2]

One of the most brilliant Generals in Pakistan Army actually relinquished his command of East Pakistan because he disagreed with the policy of using Army to control the matters which were clearly of a complex political nature and out of hand at that, still the political stalemate actually led to civil unrest and unfortunately Army was called to act.
It was something doomed to failure, yet it was deemed necessary to at least attempt to restore order.

Too bad there was only one such general. This was the mistake, of course: deciding to use blunt-force trauma to restore order rather than embracing disorder, accepting change, and yielding political power in a lawful, democratic fashion.

Analogy 1: In 1828 Andrew Jackson was elected President of the U.S. The outgoing president and his circle - dignified, honest, nation-centered public servants whose reputations had been tarnished by the Jackson crowd - knew quite well that Andrew Jackson and his supporters were really the ones who were dishonest, angry, and corrupt. Yet I know of no hint that President John Quincy Adams considered sending in troops to arrest Jackson and his followers so he could remain at the helm of the nation. Adams contented himself by snubbing Jackson at his inauguration and running for Congress, becoming both a thorn in Jackson's side a champion of the causes Adams believed in.

Analogy 2: In 1932-33 the Bonus Army of 40,000 WWI veterans assembled in the suburbs of Washington, demanding immediate payment of certificates that were not due until 1945. As the local police were not at the time well trained to handle such a crowd, and the total Army of the U.S. at the time numbered only 100,000 spread from the Philippines to the Caribbean, the Bonus Army was considered something of a threat. President Hoover sent in tanks to break it up. The Bonus Army re-formed the next year, and President Roosevelt sent...his wife to talk with them! Can you guess which approach was more successful?