I just hope that we dont get complacent now that we have this engine deal with GE, we cannot loose sight of the simple fact that we need a home grown engine for the future, we are set now with the GE engine but it wont do to depend on it for future. I hope the babus have that foresight.
GE-HAL š®š³ deal to pave the way for 80% transfer of technology of jet engines by value
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NG Missile Vessels
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US seals key ājet engine dealā ahead of Modiās visit
Sealing a key deliverable during Prime Minister Narendra Modiās state visit to Washington DC, the United States (US) administration has completed the executive approvals for the manufacture of F414 jet engines in India and begun the process of notifying the US Congress about the impending Memorandum of Understanding to be signed between General Electric (GE) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), people familiar with discussions on the subject said.
This is the first time that the US will share what it called a ācrown jewelā in its defence capabilities with a non-ally; it is the first time that there will be coproduction of jet engines with a country with which Washington DC doesnāt have a treaty; it is also the first time that the US system is sharing a substantial share of sensitive jet engine technology with a provision for tech transfer ratio to increase.
āIt is transformative. India will have access to the full engine. There are no black boxes here. The manufacturing in India is going to start with technology sharing of way over 50% which rises over the production cycle. There will be a flexible licensing agreement. India will have designs and sensitive technology. This is more tech transfer than the US has ever authorised. We are breaking through into new frontiers,ā said a person aware of the discussions.
It is understood that commerce, state and defense departments have pushed through executive approvals, with regard to International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR); the administration is notifying the Senate and House armed services and foreign relations committees; and the process will take a few weeks to get to the full Congress. But given the strong bipartisan support India enjoys on the Hill, it is expected to move through smoothly.
In the meantime, during the PMās visit, GE and HAL will sign an MoU on the manufacturing deal. The jet engines will power Tejas MK 2 fighter planes.
Explaining the significance of the decision, from the American perspective, Sameer Lalwani, a senior expert at the US Institute of Peace (USIP), said, āFor the US, this is a significant move ā a ācostly signalā as social scientists say ā to share some highly sensitive technology, which it has never shared with a non-ally. Such transfers can be made possible, not simply with blueprints but from the transmission of tacit and organisational knowledge through a shared ecology of joint research, manufacturing, and supply chains.ā
From the Indian perspective, Lalwani said, the deal offered access to better fighter jet engines than what China possessed ā āwith greater power and efficiency, longer service life, and less maintenanceā. āIt also offers India a coveted technology cooperation partnership and path to research, design, and produce its own cutting-edge aeroengines and upstream inputs.ā
Given the dealās political importance, Lalwani said, it can help catalyse a much broader defence technology and industrial partnership between the US and India, āranging from basic science to lab research and development to codevelopment and commercialisation of new capabilities for advanced domainsā.
In a recent report arguing for the deal, Heritage Foundationās John Venable and Jeff Smith noted, āThe deal would bolster Indiaās capacity to field indigenously produced fighters with some of the most powerful and reliable engines in the class, saving decades of research and development costs.ā They added that the F414 engine technology transfer will also expand on the āalready growing interoperability between US and Indian military systemsā.
Under the initiative on critical and emerging technologies (ICET), unveiled by national security advisers Ajit Doval and Jake Sullivan in January, the US acknowledged that it had received an application from GR to āto jointly produce jet engines that could power jet aircraft operated and produced indigenously by Indiaā. During secretary of defense Lloyd Austin and NSA Sullivanās visit to India this month, they discussed the subject in detail with their Indian counterparts. Those involved in the discussions said that ICET and the leadership of NSAs made a big difference, as did the focus on actual deliverables.
www.hindustantimes.com
Sealing a key deliverable during Prime Minister Narendra Modiās state visit to Washington DC, the United States (US) administration has completed the executive approvals for the manufacture of F414 jet engines in India and begun the process of notifying the US Congress about the impending Memorandum of Understanding to be signed between General Electric (GE) and Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), people familiar with discussions on the subject said.
This is the first time that the US will share what it called a ācrown jewelā in its defence capabilities with a non-ally; it is the first time that there will be coproduction of jet engines with a country with which Washington DC doesnāt have a treaty; it is also the first time that the US system is sharing a substantial share of sensitive jet engine technology with a provision for tech transfer ratio to increase.
āIt is transformative. India will have access to the full engine. There are no black boxes here. The manufacturing in India is going to start with technology sharing of way over 50% which rises over the production cycle. There will be a flexible licensing agreement. India will have designs and sensitive technology. This is more tech transfer than the US has ever authorised. We are breaking through into new frontiers,ā said a person aware of the discussions.
It is understood that commerce, state and defense departments have pushed through executive approvals, with regard to International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR); the administration is notifying the Senate and House armed services and foreign relations committees; and the process will take a few weeks to get to the full Congress. But given the strong bipartisan support India enjoys on the Hill, it is expected to move through smoothly.
In the meantime, during the PMās visit, GE and HAL will sign an MoU on the manufacturing deal. The jet engines will power Tejas MK 2 fighter planes.
Explaining the significance of the decision, from the American perspective, Sameer Lalwani, a senior expert at the US Institute of Peace (USIP), said, āFor the US, this is a significant move ā a ācostly signalā as social scientists say ā to share some highly sensitive technology, which it has never shared with a non-ally. Such transfers can be made possible, not simply with blueprints but from the transmission of tacit and organisational knowledge through a shared ecology of joint research, manufacturing, and supply chains.ā
From the Indian perspective, Lalwani said, the deal offered access to better fighter jet engines than what China possessed ā āwith greater power and efficiency, longer service life, and less maintenanceā. āIt also offers India a coveted technology cooperation partnership and path to research, design, and produce its own cutting-edge aeroengines and upstream inputs.ā
Given the dealās political importance, Lalwani said, it can help catalyse a much broader defence technology and industrial partnership between the US and India, āranging from basic science to lab research and development to codevelopment and commercialisation of new capabilities for advanced domainsā.
In a recent report arguing for the deal, Heritage Foundationās John Venable and Jeff Smith noted, āThe deal would bolster Indiaās capacity to field indigenously produced fighters with some of the most powerful and reliable engines in the class, saving decades of research and development costs.ā They added that the F414 engine technology transfer will also expand on the āalready growing interoperability between US and Indian military systemsā.
Under the initiative on critical and emerging technologies (ICET), unveiled by national security advisers Ajit Doval and Jake Sullivan in January, the US acknowledged that it had received an application from GR to āto jointly produce jet engines that could power jet aircraft operated and produced indigenously by Indiaā. During secretary of defense Lloyd Austin and NSA Sullivanās visit to India this month, they discussed the subject in detail with their Indian counterparts. Those involved in the discussions said that ICET and the leadership of NSAs made a big difference, as did the focus on actual deliverables.
US seals key ājet engine dealā ahead of Modiās visit
The US administration has completed the executive approvals for the manufacture of F414 jet engines in India.
West is repeating its mistakes vis-a-vis China, and doing so by order of magnitude worse with India. This will come back to haunt them once India throws its weight around and has divergent interests with the West.
The Indian economy is riding on the U.S. and other Western economies. The U.S.'s steps against China are fresh on Indian minds, and let's not forget the U.S. is still the entrepreneur capital of the world; the rest of India is its workforce as the U.S. can dictate policies.
The U.S. will let India rise in a more controlled fashion, with checks and balances in place if it tries to step out of line.
But the main question everyone seems not to be asking is what has Pakistan done or gained in that time? Besides, waiting for Coalition Support Fund to buy more F-16s.
Are you saying Popa John franchises, little fauji brat's budding career at McKinsey and Belgium farm houses are not a net gain?
Cant disagree with what you have written regarding US attempts to check Indian growth, if I was US i would do same. But what will remain to be seen is how effective it will be. In today's globalized and integrated econmy such things are both possible and difficult to achieve. Possible as in a limited capacity to curtail another's growth, but difficult to achieve because in a sense your own economy will also be impacted in a way (however small or big it might be). Untill such a scenario occurs we can only speculate and give our best guesses.
For now I am happy with India US relations and India's growth.
Personal Net Gains, yes. Lol.
Remember one thing about the U.S. economic system.
India is an input in the product or services logistical chain. The U.S. controls the output. Ultimately, and is the deciding factor in how things are divided up. To counter the U.S. and be truly independent, you must turn the economy into an output economy.
However, the output must have independent inputs and not be controlled by the U.S. and West. If you look at raw material sources, it's owned by the U.S. and the West; hence you would be at its whim. Example: Lithography machines, a key input in semiconductors made by AMSL Holding, are in the West.
Only gain that matters...
Nang-e-deen, nang-e-millat, nang-e-watan...
True for Mir Jafar and true for his sepoy successors...
NG Missile Vessels
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GE made-in-India jet engine likely in 3 years
NEW DELHI: India expects the first GE-F414 jet engine to be jointly produced with the US to roll out in three years to power the indigenous Tejas Mark-2 fighters, in the project that will involve 80% transfer of technology (ToT) and herald a new era in the bilateral defence-industrial collaboration.
The MoU inked between General Electric (GE) Aerospace and Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) in Washington will translate into the actual contract āwithin a few monthsā after conclusion of some remaining commercial negotiations, a top government officer said on Friday.
While the final pricing is still to be fixed, the officer said it should cost āless than $1 billionā for 99 such engines. The caveat, however, is that the production of the engines will have to match the timelines for the manufacture of the 120-130 Tejas Mark-2 fighters.
The 17.5-tonne jet is still in the design and development phase after the Cabinet Committee on Security in August last year cleared the development of its prototypes at an overall cost of over Rs 9,000 crore, which will have to be followed by extensive flight-testing and certification process.
Nevertheless, the joint India-US statement said PM Modi and President Biden āhailed the landmark MoU" for the manufacture of GE-F414 engines in India in the ātrailblazing initiativeā that will āenable greater transfer of US jet engine technology than ever beforeā.
The two major takeaways in the defence sector were the co-production of GE-F414 engines and Indiaās proposed $3.5 billion acquisition of 31 armed MQ-9B Predator or Reaper drones, which will be assembled in India, both of which were steered by defence minister Rajnath Singh.
Drone-manufacturer General Atomics will establish a ācomprehensive global MRO facilityā in India as part of the deal, which can cater to other countries like Australia and Japan, as was reported by TOI earlier.
While there will be little ToT in the drone deal, the GE-F414 story is a different story. Jet engine technology is among the toughest to master in the military arena, with only the US, Russia, France and the UK succeeding in it. China is also somewhere there due to its āreverse-engineeringā skills. Indiaās own attempt with the Kaveri aero-engine flopped despite developmental work since 1989.
Itās no wonder Indian officials are all tom-tomming the GE-F414 pact, which will lead to 11 key technologies being transferred to HAL. The seven with ācomplete ToTā are special coatings for corrosion, erosion and thermal barrier for hot-end; blisk machining; machining thin-walled titanium casing; friction welding; PMC (polymer matrix composites) for bypass duct; laser drilling technology for combustor; and bottle boring of shafts.
One critical technology for which āmachining onlyā is on offer is āforging/powder metallurgy discs for turbinesā. Machining and coating, in turn, is on offer for āsingle crystal for turbine blades; castings for nozzle-guide vanes and other hot end parts; and ceramic matrix composites for nozzles and flaps.
āIndia has been in talks for the GE-F414 engines since 2012. At that time, only 58% ToT was offered. Now, itās 80%, which is of an unprecedented kind and scale, and critically important for India. It shows India has gained trust and confidence among US policy-makers,ā an official said.
With the GE-F414 INS6 turbofan engines in the 98 Kilonewton thrust class, the Tejas Mark-2 jets will have better operational capabilities, a longer combat range and greater weapon-carrying capacity than the existing Tejas Mark-1 jets, which have the older GE-F404 engines procured without ToT.
The first two squadrons of the planned fifth-generation stealth AMCA (advanced medium combat aircraft) are also likely to have GE-F414 engines. The next five AMCA Mark-2 squadrons, in turn, will have a more powerful 110 Kilonewton engine to be developed with foreign collaboration. Though India is also in talks with Rolls-Royce and Safran Group, GE will now probably be the front-runner in the fray.
www.google.com
NEW DELHI: India expects the first GE-F414 jet engine to be jointly produced with the US to roll out in three years to power the indigenous Tejas Mark-2 fighters, in the project that will involve 80% transfer of technology (ToT) and herald a new era in the bilateral defence-industrial collaboration.
The MoU inked between General Electric (GE) Aerospace and Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL) in Washington will translate into the actual contract āwithin a few monthsā after conclusion of some remaining commercial negotiations, a top government officer said on Friday.
While the final pricing is still to be fixed, the officer said it should cost āless than $1 billionā for 99 such engines. The caveat, however, is that the production of the engines will have to match the timelines for the manufacture of the 120-130 Tejas Mark-2 fighters.
The 17.5-tonne jet is still in the design and development phase after the Cabinet Committee on Security in August last year cleared the development of its prototypes at an overall cost of over Rs 9,000 crore, which will have to be followed by extensive flight-testing and certification process.
Nevertheless, the joint India-US statement said PM Modi and President Biden āhailed the landmark MoU" for the manufacture of GE-F414 engines in India in the ātrailblazing initiativeā that will āenable greater transfer of US jet engine technology than ever beforeā.
The two major takeaways in the defence sector were the co-production of GE-F414 engines and Indiaās proposed $3.5 billion acquisition of 31 armed MQ-9B Predator or Reaper drones, which will be assembled in India, both of which were steered by defence minister Rajnath Singh.
Drone-manufacturer General Atomics will establish a ācomprehensive global MRO facilityā in India as part of the deal, which can cater to other countries like Australia and Japan, as was reported by TOI earlier.
While there will be little ToT in the drone deal, the GE-F414 story is a different story. Jet engine technology is among the toughest to master in the military arena, with only the US, Russia, France and the UK succeeding in it. China is also somewhere there due to its āreverse-engineeringā skills. Indiaās own attempt with the Kaveri aero-engine flopped despite developmental work since 1989.
Itās no wonder Indian officials are all tom-tomming the GE-F414 pact, which will lead to 11 key technologies being transferred to HAL. The seven with ācomplete ToTā are special coatings for corrosion, erosion and thermal barrier for hot-end; blisk machining; machining thin-walled titanium casing; friction welding; PMC (polymer matrix composites) for bypass duct; laser drilling technology for combustor; and bottle boring of shafts.
One critical technology for which āmachining onlyā is on offer is āforging/powder metallurgy discs for turbinesā. Machining and coating, in turn, is on offer for āsingle crystal for turbine blades; castings for nozzle-guide vanes and other hot end parts; and ceramic matrix composites for nozzles and flaps.
āIndia has been in talks for the GE-F414 engines since 2012. At that time, only 58% ToT was offered. Now, itās 80%, which is of an unprecedented kind and scale, and critically important for India. It shows India has gained trust and confidence among US policy-makers,ā an official said.
With the GE-F414 INS6 turbofan engines in the 98 Kilonewton thrust class, the Tejas Mark-2 jets will have better operational capabilities, a longer combat range and greater weapon-carrying capacity than the existing Tejas Mark-1 jets, which have the older GE-F404 engines procured without ToT.
The first two squadrons of the planned fifth-generation stealth AMCA (advanced medium combat aircraft) are also likely to have GE-F414 engines. The next five AMCA Mark-2 squadrons, in turn, will have a more powerful 110 Kilonewton engine to be developed with foreign collaboration. Though India is also in talks with Rolls-Royce and Safran Group, GE will now probably be the front-runner in the fray.
GE made-in-India jet engine likely in 3 years | India News - Times of India
India News: India expects the first GEF414 jet engine to be jointly produced with the US to roll out in three years to power the indigenous Tejas Mark2 fighter
www.google.com
Ali_Baba
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but - in terms of technology - does the 414 deal give India anything that it did not gain from the engines for the Su30MKI ? TOT for 80% of value suggests that GE will hold the most sensitive technologies for it self ??
Once the manufacturing starts in India, it is very difficult to rest of technology a secret.
VkdIndian
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I also want to ask HAL, why couldnāt they work on the transferred tech and come out with something better than the current version of Kaveri.
GE-414 is in a different league itself hence gain would be quite a lot. It is capable of powering current and future fighter programs.
That appears to be true. Not most critical 20% but quite a lot would still be held back.
These government run defense/aerospace companies in India are hopeless. You need to switch to private management
Seriously India would have more luck manufacturing RD-33s for MiG-29s and AL-31 for Su-30s. I believe India manufactures RD-33s under license.
Mav3rick
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Wasn't Kaveri diverted to power Freight Trains?
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