Future Typhoon development.

[Philip the Arab]

IMO best thing for PAF is to try to upgrade all aircraft to Block 70/72 or UAE Block 60 variant which I think could be done considering UAE paid for 3 billion R&D and development. 76 F-16Vs or F-16 Block 60s would significantly increase Pakistan's air forces ability combined with JF-17 Block III. Typhoon will be a huge economic burden to Pakistan because you have to add supply lines and servicing techniques.



In a perfect world Pakistan would increasing ties with GCC nations as much as it can and trying to form an alliance with them that mandates attacking any aggressor that attacks any of the nations in the group. If Pakistan could secure this they would have to defend GCC against Iran but have GCC to fall back on if conflict with India arises.

Kuwait, Qatar, and Bahrain alone have pretty big air forces for their sizes and would help Pakistan's defense strategy a lot even without KSA/UAE.

Kuwait has 56 new 4+ gen fighters coming in as well as 28 older F/A-18s (EFT and F/A-18 Super Hornets)

Qatar has 86 new 4+ gen fighters coming in (EFT, Rafale, F-15QA)

Bahrain has 39 new upgraded and new built 4+ gen aircraft (F-16V)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Most people on the forum rate Euro Fighter as the Ideal , Upgrade over F16 C/D
Now the F16 V model is a different bird and concept

But the Airforce Pilots I am sure would appreciate arrival of Euro Fighter

If Only Pakistan could have placed the order back in 2006

 

[Philip the Arab]

Most people on the forum rate Euro Fighter as the Ideal , Upgrade over F16 C/D

It is a lot better can C/D but only a tad bit better than F-16V.

 

[alee92nawaz]

Why do you think so?

Dual engine and very expensive. Even for IAF

 

[Path-Finder]

Great video on the upgrades and the future of the Typhoon.

Pantsir featured in the video!

 

[Mithridates]

Most people on the forum rate Euro Fighter as the Ideal , Upgrade over F16 C/D
Now the F16 V model is a different bird and concept

But the Airforce Pilots I am sure would appreciate arrival of Euro Fighter

If Only Pakistan could have placed the order back in 2006

pal EF maximum radar range is 180 km vs 120 for f-16, while they both have same g limits EF has more than 75 degree of turn rate while for f-16 the number is only 29 degrees per second.
7 tons of mission payload vs 9 tons of EF, 13 pylons vs 11 ones of f-16...
the only advantage of f-16 is it's better fuel capacity which can be translated as better range and endurance.

 

[LeGenD]

pal EF maximum radar range is 180 km vs 120 for f-16, while they both have same g limits EF has more than 75 degree of turn rate while for f-16 the number is only 29 degrees per second.
7 tons of mission payload vs 9 tons of EF, 13 pylons vs 11 ones of f-16...
the only advantage of f-16 is it's better fuel capacity which can be translated as better range and endurance.

AN/APG-83 AESA radar system in use in the latest F-16 Block 70/72, can detect potential targets at a distance of up to 300 KM from the position of the aircraft (maximum radar range). A potential target with an rcs of 2m^2 will be visible around 160 KM mark.

AN/APG-83 is one of the most advanced radar systems in existence, capable of developing fire solutions for over 20 airborne targets in a short span, and making it possible for the pilot to engage both airborne and surface targets simultaneously. This radar system is a derivative of AN/APG-81 in use in F-35 variants.

The airframe of F-16 Block 70/72 is designed in such a manner that it can ensure 9+ g load factor even with 'conformal fuel tanks'. Imagine this.

Combat radius without conform fuel tanks = 1570 KM
Combat radius with conformal fuel tanks = 3970 KM

I am not sure about the turn rate potential of F-16 Block 70/72 but it is equipped with a very powerful engine (129 kN thrust rating), and offer excellent tactical endurance for operations (113 minutes at a distance of 400 NM).

The aircraft does not have to outgun others in every metric, to be better. F-16 Block 70/72 is actually the most advanced 4.5th generation fighter aircraft in existence with numerous qualitative advantages to be accounted for including integrated avionics.

The aircraft is particularly optimized for net-centric warfighting wherein limitations of one aircraft are easily overcome in squadron format.

 

[Mithridates]

AN/APG-83 AESA radar system in use in the latest F-16 Block 70/72, can detect potential targets at a distance of up to 300 KM from the position of the aircraft (maximum radar range). A potential target with an rcs of 2m^2 will be visible around 160 KM mark.

AN/APG-83 is one of the most advanced radar systems in existence, capable of developing fire solutions for over 20 airborne targets in a short span, and making it possible for the pilot to engage both airborne and surface targets simultaneously. This radar system is a derivative of AN/APG-81 in use in F-35 variants.

The airframe of F-16 Block 70/72 is designed in such a manner that it can ensure 9+ g load factor even with 'conformal fuel tanks'. Imagine this.

Combat radius without conform fuel tanks = 1570 KM
Combat radius with conformal fuel tanks = 3970 KM

I am not sure about the turn rate potential of F-16 Block 70/72 but it is equipped with a very powerful engine (129 kN thrust rating), and offer excellent tactical endurance for operations (113 minutes at a distance of 400 NM).

The aircraft does not have to outgun others in every metric, to be better. F-16 Block 70/72 is actually the most advanced 4.5th generation fighter aircraft in existence with numerous qualitative advantages to be accounted for including integrated avionics.

The aircraft is particularly optimized for net-centric warfighting wherein limitations of one aircraft are easily overcome in squadron format.

i'm not saying f-16 is a bad fighter but the fact is EF is way ahead of it.
typhoon radar can detect a target with 1 sqm RCS at 180 km range...
the maximum g limit for a manned jet is +9 and -2, otherwise rockwell himat could achieve +18 g and SU-57 can achieve +21 g. the thing matters is thrust/weight ratio, turn ratio and maximum angle of attack.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Euro Fighter has a bit easier procurement

 

[LeGenD]

i'm not saying f-16 is a bad fighter but the fact is EF is way ahead of it.
typhoon radar can detect a target with 1 sqm RCS at 180 km range...
the maximum g limit for a manned jet is +9 and -2, otherwise rockwell himat could achieve +18 g and SU-57 can achieve +21 g. the thing matters is thrust/weight ratio, turn ratio and maximum angle of attack.

Eurofighter Typhoon cannot be way ahead of F-16 Block 70/72 because Bulgaria chose to induct F-16 Block 70/72 after evaluating both among other options. They would know better.

Maximum radar range is different from the range being specified for detecting an object of certain rcs size such as 1m^2.

Captor-M can notice an airborne target having 3m^2 uniform rcs around 185 KM mark while Captor-E can notice the same around 216 KM mark. Detection possibilities for an airborne target having 2m^2 uniform rcs will noticeably shrink in each case. Nevertheless, even Captor- E is not in the league of AN/APG-81 and its derivatives when assessed holistically.

Thrust ratio of F-16 Block 70/72 exceed 1:1, but there is far more to see in a fighter aircraft than raw kinematics.

 

[Mithridates]

Maximum radar range is different from the range being specified for detecting an object of certain rcs size such as 1m^2.

it would be around 140 km for tracking range.

Captor-M can notice an airborne target having 3m^2 uniform rcs around 185 KM mark while Captor-E can notice the same around 216 KM mark. Detection possibilities for an airborne target having 2m^2 uniform rcs will noticeably shrink in each case

yeah that shrinks to 195 km lol.

Nevertheless, even Captor- E is not in the league of AN/APG-81 and its derivatives when assessed holistically.

let me guess Americans are saying??

 

[khanmubashir]

Suppose we have money. Typhoons have both Meteor and Scalp which India is buying. Do you think India could create a hurdle???

not scalp but storm shadow

IMO besides payload both are on par in terms of tech.

typhoon isn't stealth

 

[Haris Ali2140]

not scalp but storm shadow


typhoon isn't stealth

AFAIK they are same.

Stealth??? I am talking about F-16 and Typhoon in just in case.

 

[Mithridates]

typhoon isn't stealth

thank you for reminding me, typhoon's RCS is 0.5 sqm while the best RCS attributed for falcon is 1 sqm. also i forgot to mention the super cruising capability of EF which gives it better position in air superiority missions.
@LeGenD

 

[LeGenD]

it would be around 140 km for tracking range.

yeah that shrinks to 195 km lol.

let me guess Americans are saying??

For reference: http://www.defense-aerospace.com/ar...eurofighter-looks-to-future-improvements.html

"The fact is that, while the electronically-scanned Captor-E radar first flew on Eurofighter in 2007, and while the four partner nations have spent €1 billion on its full-scale development, so far none of the four has decided to retrofit it to its Typhoons.

It has become even touchier since the United Kingdom decided not to retrofit the Captor-E to its own Typhoons, while the Italian defense ministry, already unable to meet its defense funding obligations, seems to consider an AESA radar on Typhoon an unnecessary expense.

Both Britain and Italy operate the Lockheed F-35, whose capabilities in this respect are claimed to far exceed what Typhoon could do even with an AESA radar. The British and Italian military have come to believe their own hype about the F-35’s capabilities, and so see little reason to invest in an AESA radar for Eurofighter."

Captor-E will achieve IOC in 2020.

Maximum target detection range of AN/APG-83 is 370 KM, based on this source: http://cmano-db.com/pdf/sensor/5555/

Sensitivity factor of AN/APG-83 is largely unknown at present but since it is based on AN/APG-81, you are looking at a radar far more capable than Captor-M if not Captor-E. However, even Captor-E is a joke in comparison to AN/APG-81. So you can do the math.