Future Submarine fleet for Bangladesh

[kalu_miah]

Cross posted:

Dolgorae shallow water sub is obsolete, so only option remaining for shallow water is KSS-500A:
Submarines: South Korea And The Little Wonders

As for the bigger 2000 ton range diesel electric sub with AIP, export version of Type 039A (Type 41) Yuan Class, AKA S20, is meant for both Bangladesh and Pakistan:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...est-chinese-sub-frigates-115.html#post3971316
Pakistan Submarine Import and Export Behavior | Articles | NTI Analysis | NTI

Pakistan may have had input in its design:
http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=33878
Pakistan in Deal To Buy Chinese Subs: Report | Defense News | defensenews.com

Pakistan is working to develop its own nuclear sub, to balance threat from India’s nuclear sub:
Pakistani Navy to Develop Nuclear-Powered Submarines: Reports | Defense News | defensenews.com

People in this forum were also hoping that Pakistan gets Qing class Type 032 (Type 043) 6000 ton from China:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...est-chinese-sub-frigates-115.html#post4277441

Chinese subs are still noisy compared with Western designed subs:
China's Noisy Subs Get Busier -- And Easier to Track | Danger Room | Wired.com
Problems in China's submarine program?

But with constant research, they are improving every year and will eventually win:
Why Beijing Could Win the Great China-America Showdown of 2030 | Danger Room | Wired.com

So we should bet on China and build a relationship with them from early on. The subs will be cheaper and technology will be shared with Pakistan and I am hoping with Bangladesh also. And technology will be upgraded fast in coming decades and will become close to Western design subs.

So both Saudi and Pakistani S20 subs can be made in Karachi shipyard. Bangladesh may opt for made in China S20 for the first one and eventually may try to make it in Bangladesh Naval shipyard.

 

[bd_4_ever]

Probably for SWADS there are SDV and UUV or they are supposed to join, I'm not sure though...SWADS info are classified.

SEAL Delivery Vehicle (SDV):

SEAL Delivery Vehicle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Back in 2010, Planning Minister Air Vice-Marshal (retd) AK Khandker disclosed the purchase of 4 Seal Delivery Vehicles and 4 Underwater Scooters. Here you go :-

On modernisation of the navy, the minister said the government plans to purchase two new frigates, four patrol craft, one logistic ship, four seal delivery vehicles and four underwater scooters.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/bangla...aries-armed-forces-members.html#ixzz2gSA0iq2x

News link - Govt to raise salaries of armed forces members

So our SWADS are already using them. Its also possible that more have been bought. But i dont have any links right now.


Cheers!!!

 

[bd_4_ever]

These are a underwater scooters :-

And the Seal Delivery Vehicle :-

Could someone enlighten me on the potential differences?


Cheers!!!

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

my guess would be range and payload, and may even be speed....

These are a underwater scooters :-

And the Seal Delivery Vehicle :-

Could someone enlighten me on the potential differences?


Cheers!!!

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

@Loki we need you here.... this thread has become long with irrelevant stuff....

 

[Luffy 500]

2/3 AIP S-20 would do just fine and is more than enough for BD. Subs are costly business and whatever the costs, its potency as a weapon is worth every penny. As per reports 2 would be song class with possibility of 2 more advance subs. Both song and s-20 can be fitted with AIP and needless to say China is our best bet to get subs. Infact S-20 is put forth by china targeting countries such as BD as a possible customer.

 

[fallstuff]

So the Navy got a submarine yet
?

 

[Bamboo Castle]

I think its pretty clear that Bangladesh is going for Song class submarines:
Type 039 submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does anyone know how many? Wiki says 4:
Bangladesh Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In addition to these 2250 ton subs, Bangladesh needs some smaller subs also I think, to mainly operate within the maritime EEZ of Bangladesh. As far as I know China does not produce these small subs.

A 500 ton small sub for shallow waters of Bay of Bengal, the best option for this is Korean KSS 500A:
http://asw.newpacificinstitute.org/?p=9083

And then we need a few midget subs for the Frogman Marine commando operations. Pakistan currently operates at least 2 MG110:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-navy/18074-pn-mini-submarine-fleet-6.html
MG 110 Midget Submarine
Submarines & Warships Construction
Cosmos Class MG110

The above is about 100 ton and has a speed of 9 knots, a slightly bigger one, Dolgorae, 175 ton and 16 knots, is available from Korea:
Dolgorae-class submarine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bay of Bengal depth:

Since we have shallow water near the coast, I think the small subs will be useful, both the Dolgorae and the KSS 500A. Saudi Arabia may go for similar small subs for operation in shallow waters of Arabian Gulf. So we may coordinate with Saudi Arabian Navy (RSNF) before these purchases, so we can get similar equipment. RSNF may also go with Song class subs like Pakistan and Bangladesh for over 2000 ton category:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/arab-defence/278421-submarines-should-rsnf-go-after-8.html

@Yzd Khalifa @Arabian Legend @al-Hasani You may find this thread relevant.

Here is a video showing sonar use by helicopter and submarine sea to air missile target the helicopter:

DCNS - SMX-26 Littoral Seabed Landing Submarine Combat Simulation [1080p] - YouTube

Bangladesh is not buying the song class. You have to understand the role this initial submarine is going to play. This ship will be more like a training platform. This submarine will be used primarily for training the sailors how to operate submarines and the role of submarines in naval warfare and in the peacetime. The submarine is also intended for the much needed ASW training for the surface fleet of Bangladesh navy also for the newly established air wing training.

I do not believe, govt. will go for expensive song class for the training submarine. Yes, govt. will buy the future (after the training submarine) submarines of state of the art type by 2030. But till them I think ming class is what govt. is planning.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

I agree with you in the point that the govt. is currently keeping submarine training (especially ASW training) as a priority over creating a deterrent.... though it wouldn't hurt getting both at the same time, particularly if Myanmar gets a couple of Kilos or something similar within the next couple of years or so... budget constraints would play a big role here.... lets keep our fingers crossed.... I'm sure the BN wants Song, but the govt. may push for something less on budgetary grounds... but anyway, BN got priority in recent times, which is why they got so much within such a short time.... never know, it may even get the Songs....

Bangladesh is not buying the song class. You have to understand the role this initial submarine is going to play. This ship will be more like a training platform. This submarine will be used primarily for training the sailors how to operate submarines and the role of submarines in naval warfare and in the peacetime. The submarine is also intended for the much needed ASW training for the surface fleet of Bangladesh navy also for the newly established air wing training.

I do not believe, govt. will go for expensive song class for the training submarine. Yes, govt. will buy the future (after the training submarine) submarines of state of the art type by 2030. But till them I think ming class is what govt. is planning.

 

[kalu_miah]

I agree with you in the point that the govt. is currently keeping submarine training (especially ASW training) as a priority over creating a deterrent.... though it wouldn't hurt getting both at the same time, particularly if Myanmar gets a couple of Kilos or something similar within the next couple of years or so... budget constraints would play a big role here.... lets keep our fingers crossed.... I'm sure the BN wants Song, but the govt. may push for something less on budgetary grounds... but anyway, BN got priority in recent times, which is why they got so much within such a short time.... never know, it may even get the Songs....

Instead of scrapping China should give us one of its obsolete Ming class for training free of charge or for minor refitting charge, if Bangladesh decides to go for a new submarine order. After placing an order it takes many years to build a submarine, so I support ordering S20 model, as deterrence, which will come in service around 2020 even if it is ordered in next few years.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

I'm pretty sure that the BN is opting for an off-the-shelf SSK.... judging by the urgency of the buildup, its pretty certain that BN is looking at a force level currently just out of reach if built up only with new ships.... the most urgent ones are coming second hand or smaller ships that can be built quickly.... e.g. three frigates and two corvettes bought second hand and two corvettes built new in China, along with 5 patrol vessels built at KSY.... once you feel a bit safer after getting your bare necessities, you go for the next building options.... e.g. Type 056 corvettes.... I think the next priority is submarines, which makes me think that the first subs would be second-hand, whatever class it is...

Instead of scrapping China should give us one of its obsolete Ming class for training free of charge or for minor refitting charge, if Bangladesh decides to go for a new submarine order. After placing an order it takes many years to build a submarine, so I support ordering S20 model, as deterrence, which will come in service around 2020 even if it is ordered in next few years.

 

[Bamboo Castle]

I'm pretty sure that the BN is opting for an off-the-shelf SSK.... judging by the urgency of the buildup, its pretty certain that BN is looking at a force level currently just out of reach if built up only with new ships.... the most urgent ones are coming second hand or smaller ships that can be built quickly.... e.g. three frigates and two corvettes bought second hand and two corvettes built new in China, along with 5 patrol vessels built at KSY.... once you feel a bit safer after getting your bare necessities, you go for the next building options.... e.g. Type 056 corvettes.... I think the next priority is submarines, which makes me think that the first subs would be second-hand, whatever class it is...

I think it won't be anything better than ming class.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

real possibility.... unless the Chinese are willing to give up some of their in-service subs well before their retirement date.... that would mean a drop in their force levels.... not sure whether they would be doing that....

I think it won't be anything better than ming class.

 

[bdslph]

the mistake Bangladesh is making is that they are wasting the 2 sub money i know it will be cheap but not that cheap
its a sub it is outdated and old before anything take place it will be sink its too noisy
i know it is for familiar purpose but no one does that they always buy sub better could have been if we embedded different navy to train
China and Russian sub is best for us
but what Bangladesh navy needs are small compact submarine

 

[arp2041]

Any plans for inducting Nuclear Missile Ballistic Submarines?