Future Pakistan-Turkish defense cooperation likely to be incremental, for now

[Foxtrot Delta]

I don't think chinese would like turkish collaboration. Its better to keep two different projects one with turkey and one with china seperate non dependant on each other. To avoid hiccups

 

[rcrmj]

I don't think chinese would like turkish collaboration. Its better to keep two different projects one with turkey and one with china seperate non dependant on each other. To avoid hiccups

it has nothing to do with who likes whom``its all about who has the wit and money, sounds mean isnt it?

but its hard fact, Turkey is nobody in providing cuttin edge aviation technology, not semiconductor, not structual design, not data support, not material science, not metallurgical industry, not engine tech, not data link tech`````nothing, period`````they might use Western parts to assemble a helli, but a next gen fighter? lol```like I said, not in 2 decades even with Western support````

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

it has nothing to do with who likes whom``its all about who has the wit and money, sounds mean isnt it?

but its hard fact, Turkey is nobody in providing cuttin edge aviation technology, not semiconductor, not structual design, not data support, not material science, not metallurgical industry, not engine tech, not data link tech`````nothing, period`````they might use Western parts to assemble a helli, but a next gen fighter? lol```like I said, not in 2 decades even with Western support````

Not really i guess you are not familiar with turkish people. They can do alot. Don't be too harsh on them. We will see in due time. They might be slow as beginning of amything new is always slow. But as a pakistani i hope and pray they will reach all the objectives they set for themselves. As a pakistani i would like to see a strong turkey stronger than Germany and France. We need to support them just like we support china.

 

[PakAlp]

Block 3 should have design changes, AESA IRST, etc. Hopefully engine change.

Jf17 Block 4 is realistic but will be something like an upgrade as we won't be staying with Block 3 forever. If we look at block 1 and 2, they are the same, the difference is just upgrades and no design changes.

I don't see the future for an Jf17 stealth fighter. Will Mirage 2000 have an stealth or f16 have stealth. I doubt it. Also no point because paf will have stealth 5th generation fighters.

Block 4 or 5 will be upgraded Jf17. I can see Jf17 with a lot of Turkish/western systems for the future.

For a stealth plane paf will go for 5th generation. One with China and one Turkey. Seems like Chinese f31 is delayed till 2030s(only 2 prototypes built).
Turkey 5th generation will be 2030s aswell. A long wait

 

[The Eagle]

Future Pakistan-Turkish defense cooperation likely to be incremental, for now
By: Usman Ansari   September 19, 2018
string of recent deals, analysts believe further cooperation will be incremental.

Speaking to Turkey’s Daily Sabah, Muhammad Syrus Sajjad Qazi highlighted defense relations such as recent deals for platforms like the T-129 helicopter gunships and Milgem corvettes, which he said would further improve as the countries continue to explore new opportunities.

The existing deals alone are likely to see substantial offsets and technological input for Pakistani industry, and build upon existing supply of defense technology critical for all three branches of Pakistan’s military.

Pakistan’s defense industry generally lags behind other nations, and has struggled to offer much in return bar a deal for the PAC Super Mushak basic training aircraft, further highlighting the importance of the relationship between Ankara and Islamabad.

Asked exactly how that relationship may further improve, Brian Cloughley, and author, analyst, and former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, said there is room to do so. He highlighted training as one area of cooperation, thanks to tensions between Pakistan and the U.S., along with armored personnel carriers and future orders of helicopters.

While Turkish AFV-related technology is already finding its way onto Pakistani APCs and tanks, Pakistan is exploring options to supplement or even replace its M113 type APCs, perhaps with an IFV design, with Turkey’s Kaplan or Tulpar IFV programs potentially of interest.

Turkey’s T625 multirole transport helicopter may also be considered to replace Pakistan’s range of legacy types.

Both countries also have active fifth generation fighter development projects, but analysts believe this level of cooperation is presently a step too far.


Justin Bronk, an analyst with the RUSI think tank, raises concerns given “the lack of any proven domestic capacity in both Pakistan and Turkey to produce a fifth-generation fighter, than with any issues around security or industrial interests.”

“Neither country is in any position to develop such capabilities for the foreseeable future without massive external assistance and technology transfer,” he said

That idea is echoed by author, analyst, and former air force pilot Kaiser Tufail, who nevertheless stresses their respective fifth generation programs “must continue for a long-term goal of manufacture”.

Tufail believes both nations should co-operate on an interim type of jet, with some of the technical characteristics of a full fifth-generation fighter “rather than jumping straight to a full-capability fifth generation fighter.”

Though new to aircraft manufacture, he believes Pakistan has gained a slight edge over its potential partner, having co-produced the JF-17, “essentially a Chinese design based on PAF's specifications”, though there is still “need for collaboration in design and production of any new fighter.” Turkey in comparison, though having license produced F-16s, lacks comparable modern fighter design experience.

Their close relationship makes fighter co-production “logical” though, he said.

Therefore, present co-operation “could well take the shape of a ‘Block-4’ JF-17 developed by Turkey and Pakistan” to be “considered for joint design and co-production”, after which “a stealth fighter would then be a logical next step.”


https://www.defensenews.com/global/...cooperation-likely-to-be-incremental-for-now/

Why to bring an article from 2018? and that too by posting a duplicate thread?

It will be really helpful to adopt standard practice.

Regards,

 

[khansaheeb]

it has nothing to do with who likes whom``its all about who has the wit and money, sounds mean isnt it?

but its hard fact, Turkey is nobody in providing cuttin edge aviation technology, not semiconductor, not structual design, not data support, not material science, not metallurgical industry, not engine tech, not data link tech`````nothing, period`````they might use Western parts to assemble a helli, but a next gen fighter? lol```like I said, not in 2 decades even with Western support````

But Turkey has a need to counter the Advance warplanes of the neighbours and increase influence on the antagonists.

 

[HAIDER]

Why to bring an article from 2018? and that too by posting a duplicate thread?

It will be really helpful to adopt standard practice.

Regards,

Why to bring an article from 2018? and that too by posting a duplicate thread?

It will be really helpful to adopt standard practice.

Regards,

I didn't notice if any Pak Turkey block 4 thread is active . Anyway, no problem.

 

[rcrmj]

But Turkey has a need to counter the Advance warplanes of the neighbours and increase influence on the antagonists.

indeed, Turkey needs advanced kits for its own national security, but the problem is that its own technological capability prevents that, so has to rely on Western tech support, but due to its political differences, its a hard situation for them to acquire advanced Western bits and bots, I'd say harder than India

 

[rcrmj]

Not really i guess you are not familiar with turkish people. They can do alot. Don't be too harsh on them. We will see in due time. They might be slow as beginning of amything new is always slow. But as a pakistani i hope and pray they will reach all the objectives they set for themselves. As a pakistani i would like to see a strong turkey stronger than Germany and France. We need to support them just like we support china.

technology capability is not anything personal, its a hard reality, same to us in fields of top end turbofan engine tech, and many others.

 

[khansaheeb]

indeed, Turkey needs advanced kits for its own national security, but the problem is that its own technological capability prevents that, so has to rely on Western tech support, but due to its political differences, its a hard situation for them to acquire advanced Western bits and bots, I'd say harder than India

Yes, it seems to be a sales dumping ground for Western equipment and their indigenous high caliber weapons manufacturing is poor.

 

[mustafa erkan]

but its hard fact, Turkey is nobody in providing cuttin edge aviation technology, not semiconductor, not structual design, not data support, not material science, not metallurgical industry, not engine tech, not data link tech`````nothing, period`````they might use Western parts to assemble a helli, but a next gen fighter? lol```like I said, not in 2 decades even with Western support````

My advice visit Turkish defence in countries section to learn about our capacity .
We know better than you which we are good at and bad at. And our defence managemant is working sistematically developing projects also industrilization of products and export.
We focused on emergency systems which we need urgent and devoloped them. Yes we didnt wait for Turkish engine to developing Altay Tank or Atak T-129 and for others. No need to waste time because we need these platforms now but when Europan countries and US put amborgoes on a critical component we developed that.
It is about using budget and time affectivelly which many of people couldnt understand.
We have defence projects over than 600 cost 60 billion.
I know we can't wait from everyone to understand Turkish defence sectors strategy and management of developing Technology,making products,industrilization and exporting .But afraid seen at our enemies say to us it is a success story in the world, no need to prove from others.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

If aircraft production JV is to come to reality between Pakistan and Turkey. Then in my opinion it should be in form of FB Radom's MSBS rifle. What I mean is one design which can be produced in multiple iterations such as: air superiority, also medium multi role and light combat and possibly a small stealth trainer/LIFT. One design that can cheaply branch off into a whole family of aircraft.

Also CZ has a weapon family of Skorpion evo, BREN platform which can be configured into 556 and 762 on the spot depending upon requirements.

I know some must think it crazy comparing guns to airplanes. But I hope I am able to get my point of view across.

One design
In 2 difderent variants
Catering to 2 distinct needs.

 

[kamranofficial]

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan’s ambassador to Turkey pledged this week to increase defense cooperation between the two countries to new levels, but after a string of recent deals, analysts believe further cooperation will be incremental.

Speaking to Turkey’s Daily Sabah, Muhammad Syrus Sajjad Qazi highlighted defense relations such as recent deals for platforms like the T-129 helicopter gunships and Milgem corvettes, which he said would further improve as the countries continue to explore new opportunities.

The existing deals alone are likely to see substantial offsets and technological input for Pakistani industry, and build upon existing supply of defense technology critical for all three branches of Pakistan’s military.

Pakistan’s defense industry generally lags behind other nations, and has struggled to offer much in return bar a deal for the PAC Super Mushak basic training aircraft, further highlighting the importance of the relationship between Ankara and Islamabad.

Asked exactly how that relationship may further improve, Brian Cloughley, and author, analyst, and former Australian defense attaché to Islamabad, said there is room to do so. He highlighted training as one area of cooperation, thanks to tensions between Pakistan and the U.S., along with armored personnel carriers and future orders of helicopters.


While Turkish AFV-related technology is already finding its way onto Pakistani APCs and tanks, Pakistan is exploring options to supplement or even replace its M113 type APCs, perhaps with an IFV design, with Turkey’s Kaplan or Tulpar IFV programs potentially of interest.

Turkey’s T625 multirole transport helicopter may also be considered to replace Pakistan’s range of legacy types.

Both countries also have active fifth generation fighter development projects, but analysts believe this level of cooperation is presently a step too far.

 

[WarKa DaNG]

Good to see Turkey developing indigenous products

 

[Umair Nawaz]

it has nothing to do with who likes whom``its all about who has the wit and money, sounds mean isnt it?

but its hard fact, Turkey is nobody in providing cuttin edge aviation technology, not semiconductor, not structual design, not data support, not material science, not metallurgical industry, not engine tech, not data link tech`````nothing, period`````they might use Western parts to assemble a helli, but a next gen fighter? lol```like I said, not in 2 decades even with Western support````

Dude, in JF17 half the systems r Chinese and other half are Turkish mostly....Even Pakistan used their ASELPODs to bomb the shit out of indians on 27 feb.

Turkish Def. industry is very good, yr just not aware of it.