Future of SD-10 in PAF?

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Thanks for the very well detailed reply. My point wasn't Pakistan owning Denel 100% but perhaps something more modest like 10-15%.

Direct ownership, especially with a state in another state-owned entity, is a touchy subject. Imagine how things would go down if someone proposed letting UAE's Tawazun Industries buy a stake in PAC. However, offsets and subsidiaries are possible, though much farther down the line.

 

[PaklovesTurkiye]

It is said in the U S---you want to check the pulse of the U S--check the car sales in the U So----that is the first thing that tells you what is coming----. The sale of vehicles to the citizens of a certain nation in the late 90's and early 2000's tells a very interesting story

The indian influence by mid 2005 was no surprise---.

I m struggling to get this thing in my head....Will u b kind enough to elaborate what you just wrote in above quoted post of yours?

 

[Viper0011.]

Viper---in as many ways you want to put---there is political ' term oil ' in the country---.

I am calling the fck ups of the Paf the fck ups of the Paf---the reason I am calling the defence minister and illiterate---because I know that he is---.

MK - I don't know your level of understanding of these matters anymore. To be honest, sometimes, you sound so far apart like the Earth and the Sky. I've watched, studied and observed Pakistan and how shit happens in Pakistan for 48 years now. There is NOTHING in Pakistan that a defense civilian minister does. The military guys find what they need, facilitate the deal (actually make the deal 90% of the time) and send the invoice to the civilian defense minister. Who then signs off on it having no choice. This is Pak military for you and that's how they operate. Above all laws!! Who are you fooling by putting the blame onto civilians??

On political "unrest", yea, after "re-introducing" politics of intensity and extremism where you verbally abuse your opponents family and all, now your guy wants to attack the sitting PM's house, just like he did to the Parliament of Pakistan. That's not term oil. That's one selfish individual so madly obsessed with one PM and the power seat, that he wants to damage his country. For the remainder of this "political instability shiit", read the following. If the Bloomberg and all are ok with Pakistan and call it the top investment destination, I don't think you or a few others opinion matter as its based on selfish purposes, not towards Pakistan. Sorry, but that's the truth. I would say, I expected better and truthfulness from you. But oh well.

Did you know that Pakistan has emerging market status but China doesn't? And you'll tell me the people running a $ 20 trillion economic system are stupid and you are wiser !!

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/06/15/why-...g-markets-index-approval-and-china-didnt.html

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...s-jump-most-this-year-after-upgrade-from-msci

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...growth-surging-to-7-as-china-invests-billions

 

[Waqas Bin Adam]

What is stopping Pakistan now to outflank india and sign a deal for 40 Rafaels tomorrow?

Indian diplomacy.

 

[fatman17]

SD10 is comparable to AIM120A, so not a bad missile.

 

[MastanKhan]

I m struggling to get this thing in my head....Will u b kind enough to elaborate what you just wrote in above quoted post of yours?

Hi,

Everyone who comes to the U S---has to buy a car---so where do new comers go---new comers with jobs and money---they go to new car dealers---.

So---at that time there was a massive influx of people in the IT field---pay was very good---along with it came the ideology as well---.

Then unlike the pakistanis---the indians wooed the american politicians and public---got into media as well.

9/11 was a big setback for them because they saw re-birth of alliance between the U S and pakistan---but they did not have to worry for too long---pakistanis ended up stabbing themselves in their own heart.

MK - I don't know your level of understanding of these matters anymore. To be honest, sometimes, you sound so far apart like the Earth and the Sky. I've watched, studied and observed Pakistan and how shit happens in Pakistan for 48 years now. There is NOTHING in Pakistan that a defense civilian minister does. The military guys find what they need, facilitate the deal (actually make the deal 90% of the time) and send the invoice to the civilian defense minister. Who then signs off on it having no choice. This is Pak military for you and that's how they operate. Above all laws!! Who are you fooling by putting the blame onto civilians??

Viper,

I did not write any different---. I stated that the defense minister is illiterarte---he knows nothing---which can also be translated to---the military gets what it wants---.

 

[SQ8]

SD10 is comparable to AIM120A, so not a bad missile.

C janaab. Horse's mouth.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

C janaab. Horse's mouth.

He compares it like cigars.

 

[SQ8]

He compares it like cigars.

Should do that. he is in this picture.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Should do that. he is in this picture.

Expected.

 

[fatman17]

PL-12/SD-10

A PL-12 active radar homing AAM was being fired from a PLAN J-10A fighter. PL-12 (K/AKK-12?) was under development at LETRI/607 Institute since early 90s. The missile was expected to be in the same class as AIM-120A/B and its active seeker may have evolved from the earlier AMR-1 design (R-129? based on Russian 9B-1348 seeker & datalink for R-77). Its tailfins appear to have fin tips as well as the leading edges of the fin root cropped. These specially designed tailfins are believed to possess lower drag for greater speed and higher torque for better maneuverability. Two datalink antennas can be seen next to the nozzle for mid-course correction. Several dielectric strips are seen along the middle warhead section which house the radio proximity fuse. PL-12 completed its development test in December 2004 and was certified in 2005. Its export version is called SD-10 (SD-10A as the improved version) and was first revealed to the public during the 2002 Zhuhai Airshow. Currently it is in the service with J-8F/DF, J-10/A/B/C, J-11B/BH, J-15 and Su-30MK2. In addition SD-10A is being carried by JF-17 currently in service with PAF. Some specifications of SD-10: length 3,850mm, diameter 203mm, wing span 674mm, weight 180kg, max g-load 38g, max speed 4M, range 60-70km. Recently produced PL-12 is expected to feature an improved seeker with new digital processor and SINS. The improved PL-12 (PL-12A?) is thought to be comparable to American AIM-120C4. It was reported in November 2010 that PL-12 may feature an active/passive dual mode seeker in order to achieve greater ECCM capability and kill probability. Several improved versions were proposed by the 607 Institute, including PL-12B with improved guidance system, PL-12C with foldable tailfins for internal carriage by the 4th generation fighters (e.g. J-20) and PL-12D with a belly air inlet and a ramjet motor for long range attack similar to PL-21 (see below). However it appears that the PL-12C/D proposal may have merged into the PL-15 program. During the 2012 Zhuhai Airshow a new anti-radiation air-to-ground variant was unveiled as LD-10 with a range of 60km, which could equip JF-17 as well. It was reported that PAF ordered 100 LD-10 in 2011 and 50 was delivered between 2014 and 2015.
- Last Updated 8/22/16

PL-12/SD-10

A PL-12 active radar homing AAM was being fired from a PLAN J-10A fighter. PL-12 (K/AKK-12?) was under development at LETRI/607 Institute since early 90s. The missile was expected to be in the same class as AIM-120A/B and its active seeker may have evolved from the earlier AMR-1 design (R-129? based on Russian 9B-1348 seeker & datalink for R-77). Its tailfins appear to have fin tips as well as the leading edges of the fin root cropped. These specially designed tailfins are believed to possess lower drag for greater speed and higher torque for better maneuverability. Two datalink antennas can be seen next to the nozzle for mid-course correction. Several dielectric strips are seen along the middle warhead section which house the radio proximity fuse. PL-12 completed its development test in December 2004 and was certified in 2005. Its export version is called SD-10 (SD-10A as the improved version) and was first revealed to the public during the 2002 Zhuhai Airshow. Currently it is in the service with J-8F/DF, J-10/A/B/C, J-11B/BH, J-15 and Su-30MK2. In addition SD-10A is being carried by JF-17 currently in service with PAF. Some specifications of SD-10: length 3,850mm, diameter 203mm, wing span 674mm, weight 180kg, max g-load 38g, max speed 4M, range 60-70km. Recently produced PL-12 is expected to feature an improved seeker with new digital processor and SINS. The improved PL-12 (PL-12A?) is thought to be comparable to American AIM-120C4. It was reported in November 2010 that PL-12 may feature an active/passive dual mode seeker in order to achieve greater ECCM capability and kill probability. Several improved versions were proposed by the 607 Institute, including PL-12B with improved guidance system, PL-12C with foldable tailfins for internal carriage by the 4th generation fighters (e.g. J-20) and PL-12D with a belly air inlet and a ramjet motor for long range attack similar to PL-21 (see below). However it appears that the PL-12C/D proposal may have merged into the PL-15 program. During the 2012 Zhuhai Airshow a new anti-radiation air-to-ground variant was unveiled as LD-10 with a range of 60km, which could equip JF-17 as well. It was reported that PAF ordered 100 LD-10 in 2011 and 50 was delivered between 2014 and 2015.
- Last Updated 8/22/16

confusing to say the least

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

PL-12/SD-10

A PL-12 active radar homing AAM was being fired from a PLAN J-10A fighter. PL-12 (K/AKK-12?) was under development at LETRI/607 Institute since early 90s. The missile was expected to be in the same class as AIM-120A/B and its active seeker may have evolved from the earlier AMR-1 design (R-129? based on Russian 9B-1348 seeker & datalink for R-77). Its tailfins appear to have fin tips as well as the leading edges of the fin root cropped. These specially designed tailfins are believed to possess lower drag for greater speed and higher torque for better maneuverability. Two datalink antennas can be seen next to the nozzle for mid-course correction. Several dielectric strips are seen along the middle warhead section which house the radio proximity fuse. PL-12 completed its development test in December 2004 and was certified in 2005. Its export version is called SD-10 (SD-10A as the improved version) and was first revealed to the public during the 2002 Zhuhai Airshow. Currently it is in the service with J-8F/DF, J-10/A/B/C, J-11B/BH, J-15 and Su-30MK2. In addition SD-10A is being carried by JF-17 currently in service with PAF. Some specifications of SD-10: length 3,850mm, diameter 203mm, wing span 674mm, weight 180kg, max g-load 38g, max speed 4M, range 60-70km. Recently produced PL-12 is expected to feature an improved seeker with new digital processor and SINS. The improved PL-12 (PL-12A?) is thought to be comparable to American AIM-120C4. It was reported in November 2010 that PL-12 may feature an active/passive dual mode seeker in order to achieve greater ECCM capability and kill probability. Several improved versions were proposed by the 607 Institute, including PL-12B with improved guidance system, PL-12C with foldable tailfins for internal carriage by the 4th generation fighters (e.g. J-20) and PL-12D with a belly air inlet and a ramjet motor for long range attack similar to PL-21 (see below). However it appears that the PL-12C/D proposal may have merged into the PL-15 program. During the 2012 Zhuhai Airshow a new anti-radiation air-to-ground variant was unveiled as LD-10 with a range of 60km, which could equip JF-17 as well. It was reported that PAF ordered 100 LD-10 in 2011 and 50 was delivered between 2014 and 2015.
- Last Updated 8/22/16



confusing to say the least

I still maintain that for the evolving threat in our theatre, something beyond SD-10 has to be looked into. SD-10 is a good stop gap measure as the BVR landscape was empty for a long time. However, we would still need speciality weapons to interdict specific threats.

 

[MastanKhan]

I still maintain that for the evolving threat in our theatre, something beyond SD-10 has to be looked into. SD-10 is a good stop gap measure as the BVR landscape was empty for a long time. However, we would still need speciality weapons to interdict specific threats.

Hi,

This threat was as visible 15 years ago as it is today---.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I still maintain that for the evolving threat in our theatre, something beyond SD-10 has to be looked into. SD-10 is a good stop gap measure as the BVR landscape was empty for a long time. However, we would still need speciality weapons to interdict specific threats.

Well Sir, we all agree that for present and next 5-8 year time frame the SD-10 and AMRAAMs may do the task, but for future what the the issues that you are seeing and what recommendation do you have.

Getting western stuff presently is a tough task and in future also would be very tough / impossible especially if we have no plans to acquire a western platform.

So where to go and what to do. Keep the Chinese engaged for their future projects and look for some western stuff / try new projects with Turks ?

PL-15 / 21 is said to be a future system by Chinese:

http://www.popsci.com/chinese-air-to-air-missile-hits-targets-spooks-usaf-general
http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/missiles-i.html

Russian options are currently don't seem possible and in future also chances are very slim till we induct one of their platforms which the Indians won't let.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Hi,

This threat was as visible 15 years ago as it is today---.

15 Years ago the nuclear triad and the strategic forces were not organized and deployed like they are today. There threat 15 years ago was different, and the threat today is different.