Future conflict of Pakistan

[araz]

You know as well as I do that you are making up arguments for the sake of it. The answers tobeach if your concerns are self-evident. We will be fighting along with the Taliban not against them. Simply provide them overt, and systematic support to capture and hold areas and firm a truly Islamic, welfare government for the benefit if people. What's more, we will be selling all those Afghan refugees in the areas we capture. We have the moral upper ground because we have no agenda other than restoring respect and dignity for the common Afghan.

Furthermore, we are not going to invade wholesale. Rather, it will be an ultimatum. Whatever area in Afghanistan fires at us, we will capture it and set it right as discussed above. This puts to rest your concern of 'billions'. To put it more succinctly, I am merely proposing a continuation of Zarb-e-Azb into Afghanistan. The same systematic, carefully planned, expertly executed campaign we have already seen. Put in yet another way, build the wall, but keep pushing it further and further into Afghanistan.

As far as Kashmir is concerned, let me tell you point blank I smell treason from your words.

You have done to me what a Mullah who does not have an answer to a questioners query does.He labels him Kafir and you have labelled me traitor!!! I would advise you however to ask for a reason for people making a statement before you start labelling people.
So Allow me to dissect your post sentence by sentence. After all that is what critical thinking requires!!!
"You know as well as I do that you are making up arguments for the sake of it. The answers to each of your concerns are self-evident. We will be fighting along with the Taliban not against them. Simply provide them overt, and systematic support to capture and hold areas and firm a truely Islamic, welfare government for the benefit of people."
Earlier on you wrote this piece which I responded to.
"I smell dejection and capitulation.That entire wall is a manifestation of cowardice and backward thinking that are hallmarks of the Pakistani nation. The enemy's plan was to engage you on the Western border and conveniently enough you go and fall into the same trap"
You are of the opinion that the enemy wanted to engage you on the Western front. Let us define who the enemy is? Is it the US that you want to engage or the Taliban? Or you think there are enough Indians whom you want to engage?
The logical answer is PROBABLY you want to engage the Talibans whom you reckon are fighting because of Coersion by Indian proxies. Taliban ofAfghanistan inspite of the treacherous treatment by our armed forces and the Government have separated themselves entirely from the involvement in the war against the Govtt of Pakistan. So your enemy is the one that lies within your own ranks ie TTP who for the love of Money will sell you down the drain and have repeatedly done so. Now in order to stop them you need to restrict the source of thier sustenance ie money and arms. So tell me how are you goig to do that without the wall. You have employed 80000 soldiers and are still unsuccessful in doing so which was the reason for the wall.
I wont even entertain the madness of taking on the US because the state of Pakistan will cease to exist if you did that.
So I get very confused as to whom you want to fight along with the Afghans in Afghanistan. You are perhaps unaware of the tribal nature of warfare in Afghanistan and the impressions you have created by buckling under the US pressure in the early 2k
"What's more, we will be selling all those Afghan refugees in the areas we capture. We have the moral upper ground because we have no agenda other than restoring respect and dignity for the common Afghan."
Settling people who do not want to go back is an interesting notion. You will immediately be labelled as dictatorial and displacing people. You need to remember you are dealing with people who have been living in Pakistan for 2 generations. This is why IK was talking about giving them nationality so we can put a close to this episode .So financial benefit says people will not be settling back into Afghan lands.
I am arguing with you while thinking all along that you are clueless as to the cost of war in terms of manpower resources and most importantly motives. You are going to spread arms again into an unstable area where people change loyalties overnight and one wrong move could earn you years worth of aggravation. At the end of it all you are still a userper on THEIR lands whether you are there to help or not. Lastly once again who are you planning to fight with the Afghanis. Please clarify. Now let me remind y ou that the US facing resistence against the Afghans is one thing as they are on their lands and dont have the moral high ground to act . But you Induct PA into their lands and the whole dynamics change as they now have a reason to attack whatever and whoever they want. SO BAAAAAAD planning.
"Furthermore, we are not going to invade wholesale. Rather, it will be an ultimatum. Whatever area in Afghanistan fires at us, we will capture it and set it right as discussed above. This puts to rest your concern of 'billions'. To put it more succinctly, I am merely proposing a continuation of Zarb-e-Azb into Afghanistan."
So two things come to mind. Are you not doing the same while erecting the wall.? Secondly the Zarb e Azb has been responsible for a huge drain on Pak resources. You cannot just move into any area. You need to manage resources mobilize manpower and equipment set up logistics which is hugely labour intensive. Soldiers need to be changed around to make up for injuries and deaths. I really think you have been very crass in your assessment. Believe me your bill will go into billions and the aims achieved will be minimal. The classical Afghan tribal technique is Gorrilla type hit and run to which there are very few answers unless you ar ewilling to occupy land and sit there. So are you willing to sit in Afghanistan for years. And then wonce you retreat what is to prevent them from coming back and firing at you again. Things do not work this way.
"As far as Kashmir is concerned, let me tell you point blank I smell treason from your words"
Hmm. So at themoment you have an armed insurgency run by the locals who are continuing on on their own steam. This gives their resistence legitimacy and sooner or later India will have to compromise to settle this situation.The moment you enter into hte fray it is aggression and these youth become traitors as they lose legitimacy. Are you so naive as to see that. You then give the Indians to bear down on you from all nooks and corners of the world and US labelling you a country abetting terrorists. What have you gained and lost .You do the sums.
No my friend it is the flush of youth rather than critical thinking which is making you write what you have written. So noww do you still think I am a traitor???
A

 

[Signalian]

I smell dejection and capitulation.That entire wall is a manifestation of cowardice and backward thinking that are hallmarks of the Pakistani nation. The enemy's plan was to engage you on the Western border and conveniently enough you go and fall into the same trap. This trap will bleed you dry until and unless you whip up the courage to take over Afghan territory and set things right under the umbrella of CPEC. Drop the charade of 'facilitating talks' and topple the Afghan government already
Tell the Americans you are ready to gradually take over the war from them. And on the Eastern front, unleash a campaign of instability upon the enemy. Attack the economic jugular which enables him to strut around.

Taking over Afghan territory is a disastrous strategy. Setting up camps inside Afghanistan is not advisable. The objectives that Pakistan needs to secure can be obtained through intelligence and SF operatives, notching up a bit through UCAV's or as last resort, air assault troops or PAF fighters. Its easier to manage covert Ops in Afghanistan than officially putting boots on the ground. ISI and SSG are trained covert operatives. Its even worse to take over reigns from USA, instead its better to form a consortium of countries (especially China, Russia, Iran, Turkey) and then decide the policy on Afghanistan.
On the Eastern front, its difficult to make enemy bleed economically. The first step is to clean own streets from enemy operatives, funding agents, sympathizers and brain wash potential recruits (Pakistanis with relatives in India, frequent travelers to India). Next step would be to take the Ops to enemy Military.

 

[Manidabest]

well there will be only one conflict and that is against india.

 

[QasimTraveler]

I have come to believe that when and wherever humans are involved, predicting the future becomes a task nearly impossible to achieve - as evident by this thread. People are presenting there arguments and sometimes passion over takes and discussion become heated.

Everyone is a patriot and we all should avoid labeling.

My 2 cents on the topic:

Very short term goal should be to strengthen the economy; 5 to 10 years of effort is needed (and we are doing that).

We could conquer the world but what good it be if we are unable to provide for our populace?

 

[CriticalThought]

Taking over Afghan territory is a disastrous strategy. Setting up camps inside Afghanistan is not advisable. The objectives that Pakistan needs to secure can be obtained through intelligence and SF operatives, notching up a bit through UCAV's or as last resort, air assault troops or PAF fighters. Its easier to manage covert Ops in Afghanistan than officially putting boots on the ground. ISI and SSG are trained covert operatives. Its even worse to take over reigns from USA, instead its better to form a consortium of countries (especially China, Russia, Iran, Turkey) and then decide the policy on Afghanistan.
On the Eastern front, its difficult to make enemy bleed economically. The first step is to clean own streets from enemy operatives, funding agents, sympathizers and brain wash potential recruits (Pakistanis with relatives in India, frequent travelers to India). Next step would be to take the Ops to enemy Military.

There is no 'taking over' and there will be no camps. I am talking about foemalizing the natural social extensions into an uninterrupted geographical extension. And here are the specific modalities: start talking with people living immediately adjacent. The people whose kids come into Pakistan in the morning for school and leave by evening. Explain to them that we will provide development and protection from American bombing. We will uphold the rule of law. If they want Islamic law, we will facilitate its implementation. Their territory will be a protectorate. We look after security, use it as security needs dictate, and share in mineral resources. Once they agree, push the boundary wall forward to include their areas as well. And in all of this, we will be working with the Taliban. There is no 'conquest'. We are not trying to rule over them. Once they are developed and educated, boundaries and suspicions will fall naturally.

May Allah Help us in achieving these aims. Aameen.

I see Afghanistan as our strategic depth.

 

[VCheng]

Once they agree, push the boundary wall forward to include their areas as well.

Is it really that easy? Once such annexation is attempted, wouldn't there be an international reaction? Is Pakistan prepared to weather that situation? Have the lessons of the Kargil (mis)adventure been forgotten already?

 

[CriticalThought]

Is it really that easy? Once such annexation is attempted, wouldn't there be an international reaction? Is Pakistan prepared to weather that situation? Have the lessons of the Kargil (mis)adventure been forgotten already?

EU is supporting BLA. Should we let the Balochs create their own country? Mischief in Afghanistan is the West's proxy war against Pakistan. You want to appease the enemy instead of safeguarding your own interests? We need to take charge of this situation, rest of the world be damned.

 

[VCheng]

EU is supporting BLA. Should we let the Balochs create their own country? Mischief in Afghanistan is the West's proxy war against Pakistan. You want to appease the enemy instead of safeguarding your own interests? We need to take charge of this situation, rest of the world be damned.

That is precisely my question. Can Pakistan afford to damn the rest of the world as you want it? Surely a smarter way to safeguard national interests is better.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Generals play while soldiers fight.
And this is more of a suggestion.
Chess and War have many similarities , once a move is done you cant take it back
was thinking how future combats will take place if that happenes between India and Pakistan
with Pakistan being much smaller nation what steps they can take for the survival i wont go straight to nukes , Nukes are stalement and make sure players dont play.
"the only winning move is not to play." Famous words said by AI.

1 Traning commanders
First doing big military exercises are expensive and take planning
Just like simiulator use of AI , and tactital games which will enhance the reaction times of commanders , will show there abilities and weaknes , show the apporach they take to different kinds of situation and mentaliy perparing for them
2 Quantum Tech and AI
these two technologies will change the word and its the best time to invest in it it can run simultaneous simulations which can help and lower the response time and can show enemies weakness
3 Using Terrain to home sides advantage
Building bunkers outspots which can hold or delay enemies push , Rebuilding local forces which are close to border as they will be 1st responders after Rangers until main forces take over.
Pakistan and india both have big advantage and disadvantage , border region is heavily populated this can delay enemies push on either side.
4 Increasing size by deploying decoys
Decoys play a major role in warfare , deploying decoys in that can help alot building decoys which affect thermal and infra red sensors and show that defending forces are superior in numbers can have a psychological affect on both defenders and attackers
5 Mobile Anti Air units
Pakistan has been lacking in long range Sams , if Pakistan is able to deploy a highly mobile anti air system which can protect from mid range and deploy long range systems in its safety it will limit Indian air forces mobility inside Pakistan
with Armed helis protecting armour can help alot in stopping Indian push as they have much bigger force in numbers
6 Drones
Air and Naval drones can do many jobs e.g survillance ,Attack and defend
deploying long endurance drones as parts of units will help in lowering loss on friendly side with providing latest update on enemy movement to attacking enemy.
Building drone ******** which can push while friendlys can retreat or flank army.
7 Traning of units
As all units are desgined with a specific role , deploying them and terraning them in different other roles will help them nurture , it will diversify the thinking makes units more flexiable to missions and can show the limits and skills of soldiers itself.
8 Propganda
Deception will be the best friend leakingwrong information , using enemies communication lines to attack , flee for own advantage , making sure of protecting own comm channels
9 Supplies
Building Road and Train infrastructure which move transport supplies at fast pace , make sure its well protected build alternatives so you are not solely dependent on 1 road or train route

There was no need to open this thread mate.
Pakistan know how to defend itself in case a war happens with much bigger india.And history is evident.And trust me after becoming a nuclear power there will not be another war with india.

 

[Darth Vader]

There was no need to open this thread mate.
Pakistan know how to defend itself in case a war happens with much bigger india.And history is evident.And trust me after becoming a nuclear power there will not be another war with india.

OVERESTIMATE Much ?
and i you didnt read the title