From pk-15 , JF-17 Thunder and Al Khalid to fifth generation stealth fighter jet project Azm

[Chhatrapati]

So much bragging when a one to one industrial capacity comparison will put these folks in the dirt. But it has reached a point that Indian members want to get down and start some comparison game. Move on @HostileInsurgent

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

It is Pakistani website not Chinese

Why are you pakis so insecure with Tejas that you peddle fake info for exaggerating, why does it make you feel so much insecure.

The design is made by dassault wtf? Does Dassault have patent for Delta design considering Tejas is a cranked delta wing design.

any country willing to induct JF-17 first needs Russian approval as supply of RD-93 engine.

Yes its Pakistani website but are you forgetting its a joint project, so it is written in same way. You should first see the difference between 3rd and 4th jet fighters and then see the specs provided to get to the truth.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Yes its Pakistani website but are you forgetting its a joint project, so it is written in same way. You should first see the difference between 3rd and 4th jet fighters and then see the specs provided to get to the truth.

I am talking about JF-17 Block-1 it was a 3rd gen aircraft, Block-2 a 4th generation aircraft and Block-3 4.5 generation aircraft.

so how does inducting a 3rd generation aircraft earlier than your adversaries’ 4th gen aircraft Tejas give some sort of an edge?

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

I am talking about JF-17 Block-1 it was a 3rd gen aircraft, Block-2 a 4th generation aircraft and Block-3 4.5 generation aircraft.

so how does inducting a 3rd generation aircraft earlier than your adversaries’ 4th gen aircraft Tejas give some sort of an edge?

What is 3rd gen and what is 4th gen?
Write the difference and then write the block-1 specs and compare to prove your point.

 

[HostileInsurgent]

What is 3rd gen and what is 4th gen?
Write the difference and then write the block-1 specs and compare to prove your point.

Generation 3: Supersonic speed; pulse radar; able to shoot at targets beyond visual range.

Generation 4: Pulse-doppler radar; high maneuverability; look-down, shoot-down missiles.

Can’t find the exact specs of JF-17 Block-1

 

[Marker]

58% of Airframe means 58% of the airframe not aircraft. Comparing a Pak-China aircraft to an aircraft made by a single country.

Compare our Tejas with your aircraft when you make one on your own without China’s help. I mean feeling pride that an aircraft made by 2 countries took less time and blah blah blah blah blah .

Inducting a 3rd generation fighter early just to have an edge over your adversary’s later induction is the most foolish thing PAF can do, the JF-17 Block-1 is a 3rd generation fighter, Block-2 is 4th gen and Block-3 is 4.5 Gen.

so you inducted a 3rd gen aircraft early, so?

Which claim that Maruts didn’t fly sorties, they rekt a whole pakistani tank formation during battle of longewala.

MiG-21s would have been replaced if IAF had numbers, thats why they are scheduled to be retired by 2025.

It is better to have 50 JF-17 Block 3s, 50% to 60% indigenously developed, with capabilities of 4.5 gen aircraft in less than $2 billion, then buying 36 Rafale for $9.3 billion. In other words cost of 2 Rafale is equal to cost of 13 JF-17 Block 3s.

Chinese 3rd Gen aircraft is equivalent to Western 4th Gen aircraft. You are mistaken about JF17 Block 1, these aircraft have 4 gen aircraft capabilities.

I think you did not read my initial post in which clearly pointed out that few HAL HF-24 Marut were used and flew no more than 100 sorties.

For your info only few HF-24 HAL Marut were used and no more than 100 close air sorties were flown.

Rafale was quoted by PM to show the significance of retiring old platforms with new ones.

Some where in this thread you stated Rafale were bought to replace old platforms. So 36 Rafale will replace IAF Mig-21 fleet. Interesting!!!

 

[Saudang]

your article is a prime example of self glorification. If that keeps you happy, then we are also happy with your state of mind ..

Just to counter few points -

- JF 17 program is much matured than Tejas, but Tejas is being adopted and new orders are being made. in due course of time, even the numbers in IAF will catch up with that of PAF JF 17

- Al Khalid is just a renamed Chinese Type 90 Tank. If renaming and local assemble makes it indigenous then India also has Bhishma (t-90) getting manufactured for decades now.

- Insas refile is in service since 1994,served the forces for 26 years. Now we are moving to better platform and local assembly of AK 203. the deal is done and production will start soon. as a journalist, you should be better updated about the development. happy to help you

India finalises deal with Russia to manufacture AK-47 203 rifles

The rifles will be manufactured in India as part of the joint venture Indo-Russia Rifles Private Limited (IRRPL), established between the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), the Kalashnikov Concern and Rosoboronexport.

www.dnaindia.com

- regarding the last point around Dhruv helicopter, you conveniently avoided the fact that 2 out of the four helicopter bought by Ecuador cashed due to human error (inquiry done by France and Brazilian experts). but you need glory in your own bubble of parallel world, where Pakistan is the benchmark.

As an aspiring defense journalist, you have to evolve beyond your narrow spectrum of point of views. don't just write articles which can be destroyed with 2 minutes for google search. try to be pragmatic, otherwise you will end up writing for the trolls..

 

[HostileInsurgent]

It is better to have 50 JF-17 Block 3s, 50% to 60% indigenously developed, with capabilities of 4.5 gen aircraft in less than $2 billion, then buying 36 Rafale for $9.3 billion. In other words cost of 2 Rafale is equal to cost of 13 JF-17 Block 3s.

Chinese 3rd Gen aircraft is equivalent to Western 4th Gen aircraft. You are mistaken about JF17 Block 1, these aircraft have 4 gen aircraft capabilities.

I think you did not read my initial post in which clearly pointed out that few HAL HF-24 Marut were used and flew no more than 100 sorties.





Some where in this thread you stated Rafale were bought to replace old platforms. So 36 Rafale will replace IAF Mig-21 fleet. Interesting!!!

Lol why do you include life cycle costs of the aircraft? Even if you are, so include of your jf17s also.

where is it said that maruts flew less sorties? Did the IAF spoke to you in personal about that?

JF-17 Block-1 is a 3rd gen aircraft, just post the specs here you’ll get your answer by your own. A pulse radar, no inflight refueling probe etc.

Block-2 is a 4th gen aircraft like F-16 block-52 that PAF uses.
Block-3 is a 4.5 gen aircraft better than F-16 block-52 of PAF.

Some where in this thread you stated Rafale were bought to replace old platforms. So 36 Rafale will replace IAF Mig-21 fleet. Interesting!!!

36 in first batch, 114 in MMRCA RFI issued by IAF.

 

[donkeykong]

Dont worry im sure china will sell pakistan some 5th gen stealth jets soon enough

 

[Green shirt123]

Generation 3: Supersonic speed; pulse radar; able to shoot at targets beyond visual range.

Generation 4: Pulse-doppler radar; high maneuverability; look-down, shoot-down missiles.

Can’t find the exact specs of JF-17 Block-1

Your problem is that you are a stupid..you said that block 1 is 3rd gen while block 2 is 4 gen aircraft and the funny thing is that you don't even know about block 1..so now let me tell you the difference between block 1 and block 2
1-Block 1 uses KLJ-7V1 radar while block 2 uses it's upgraded version i.e KLJ-7V2..Now both of these radar are pulse Doppler mutimode radar..V1 has range of around 70-80km while V2 has range of 100km
2-Refueling probe..Block 2 introduces a Refueling probe.But it doesn't mean that block 1 can't have refuling probe.I have seen a block 1 with refueling probe
3-More ammunition,most important of which is BVR missile Sd10A..Now that doesn't mean that block 1 can't fire BVR bcoz in airshow,before block 2 was made,Sd 10 missile is always shown with block 1.Pakistan simply buy and sd10 after block 2..
4-Some avionics were also upgraded but any information about these are not available so simply it mean that this upgrade was not so imp.
Pictures of Block 1 with refueling probe,sd 10missile are given below
Now according to your own definition of 4rth gen aircraft jf17 thunder looks like 4rth gen aircraft
Moreover look at the cockpit of JF17..show me any 3rd gen aircraft with MFDs with full glass cockpit.I mean even have a look at the cockpit of raptor of east,it still have some analogue meters..
Chinese 3rd gen aircraft simply mean 4rth gen aircraft..

 

[HostileInsurgent]

Dont worry im sure china will sell pakistan some 5th gen stealth jets soon enough

Yes and Pakistanis will rebrand it as a project azm and call it indigenous.

Your problem is that you are a stupid..you said that block 1 is 3rd gen while block 2 is 4 gen aircraft and the funny thing is that you don't even know about block 1..so now let me tell you the difference between block 1 and block 2
1-Block 1 uses KLJ-7V1 radar while block 2 uses it's upgraded version i.e KLJ-7V2..Now both of these radar are pulse Doppler mutimode radar..V1 has range of around 70-80km while V2 has range of 100km
2-Refueling probe..Block 2 introduces a Refueling probe.But it doesn't mean that block 1 can't have refuling probe.I have seen a block 1 with refueling probe
3-More ammunition,most important of which is BVR missile Sd10A..Now that doesn't mean that block 1 can't fire BVR bcoz in airshow,before block 2 was made,Sd 10 missile is always shown with block 1.Pakistan simply buy and sd10 after block 2..
4-Some avionics were also upgraded but any information about these are not available so simply it mean that this upgrade was not so imp.
Pictures of Block 1 with refueling probe,sd 10missile are given below
Now according to your own definition of 4rth gen aircraft jf17 thunder looks like 4rth gen aircraft
Moreover look at the cockpit of JF17..show me any 3rd gen aircraft with MFDs with full glass cockpit.I mean even have a look at the cockpit of raptor of east,it still have some analogue meters..
Chinese 3rd gen aircraft simply mean 4rth gen aircraft..

You upgraded it later. But you inducted it early at the cost of a Generation.
No Tejas doesn’t have analogue meters, all are digital.

 

[Green shirt123]

Dont worry im sure china will sell pakistan some 5th gen stealth jets soon enough

France will definitely sell you 5th gen aircraft as everyone knows that HAL capabilities

Yes and Pakistanis will rebrand it as a project azm and call it indigenous.

You upgraded it later. But you inducted it early at the cost of a Generation.
No Tejas doesn’t have analogue meters, all are digital.

I am talking about MKi.
Bro you have some real issues with jf 17.i have given you proof and evidences..but yo lack mind to understand it...
We upgrade JF 17 block 1 with BVR missile and all of suden it become 4rth gen aircraft...man I think you are mad

 

[Green shirt123]

I think now we should end this debate..There are problems in Pakistan as well as India..so rather fighting with each other let have some Peace..

 

[Tair-Lahoti]

Generation 3: Supersonic speed; pulse radar; able to shoot at targets beyond visual range.

Generation 4: Pulse-doppler radar; high maneuverability; look-down, shoot-down missiles.

Can’t find the exact specs of JF-17 Block-1

JF-17 Thunder Multi-Role Fighter | Military-Today.com

The JF-17 Thunder multi-role fighter was jointly developed by China and Pakistan. This aircraft is intended for air defense and ground attack missions.

www.military-today.com

The Thunder multi-role fighters delivered to Pakistan are fitted with Italian Grifo S-7 multi-track, multi-mode pulse Doppler radar. It has look-down, shoot-down capability. Other radars can be fitted. Some sources claim, that aircraft are fitted with the Russian radars. Avionics systems will be gradually upgraded in later batches. *radar: KLJ-7V1 is Pulse Doppler, mechanically steered Array Radar & is equipped on first batch of 50 JF-17 Block 1. It is a Multi mode Fire Control Radar (FCR)

Comparison: PAF JF-17 & IAF MIG-29

Hie, Su-30mki is IAF's prime air superiority fighter and F-16 is PAF's.I feel rather than comparing jf-17 with MKI , comparing jf-17 with Mig-29 would make more sense ! * I have tried to keep the comparison as neutral as possible . Please correct me if I am wrong with any specifications ...

defence.pk

Hope you will never embarrass yourself again by declaring JF17 block-1 a 3rd gen jet!

 

[FAROOQ RASHID BUTT]

36 in first batch, 114 in MMRCA RFI issued by IAF.

Even If India gets 1000 Rafale and 2000 F-35 Still the Chinese army's batons and ironic rods will be enough to teach them the lesson on the art of the war . . .