From Arabization to Turkfication Ertugrul and Pakistani Nationalism

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Its hard for folks under 35 or even 20 like me to understand Pakistan prior to the 1980s was hell out of different place



Saudisation is better term leads to more better understanding

Have you lived in Pakistan? Grown up here? Lived in a rural village?

 

[Yankee-stani]

I had some good friendships with Arabs of various backgrounds. As stated before I do speak Classical Arabic. I found Yemenis closest to Pakistanis, from cultural perspective. They, like us, are very diverse racially and ethnically.

Without the opulence wealth and toxic culture that riches have made to them, Gulf and Peninsular Arabs traditionally were very down to Earth and humble people.

best Yemen too bad the North took over from the Socialist South grrr

 

[Psychic]

I learned here that there are Pakistanis... mostly are hiding behind all kinds of cliques while trying to show his/her indoctrinate level... who cannot express their personal hatred to Turkey openly....

The said Pakistani is a die hard Assadist. Most likely he is butt-hurt over the thrashing Turkey gave to Bashar the Butcher recently.

Him supporting the genocidal despot who is also an Arab nationalist doesn't make him an Arab wannabe...but a Pakistani watches Ertugrul makes him go absolutely ape.

They try to give opinions like an expert in areas where they are mostly ignorant, even without any historical knowledge... Or, as seen here, they try to pursue Pakistani identity polemics over on TV series...

A few characteristics of such Pakistanis.

• Live in the West, never stepped their feet on Pakistani soil
• Themselves follow Western culture, but blame Pakistanis of not following their own culture; paradoxically they also want to replace Pakistani culture with Western culture.
  
• Ignorant of Pakistan's history, culture and psyche. Believes that culture is static and not evolutionary.
  
• Are themselves of a hybrid race, Pakistani father and non-Pakistani mother. Yet blame others of being not proud of their "pure race."

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Its hard for folks under 35 or even 20 like me to understand Pakistan prior to the 1980s was hell out of different place



Saudisation is better term leads to more better understanding



Last time I checked Pakistanis are the largest pool of scholarships in China

That your reply to my statement?

The said Pakistani is a die hard Assadist. Most likely he is butt-hurt over the thrashing Turkey gave to Bashar the Butcher recently.

Him supporting the genocidal despot who is also an Arab nationalist doesn't make him an Arab wannabe...but a Pakistani watches Ertugrul makes him go absolutely ape.

A few characteristics of such Pakistanis.

• Live in the West, never stepped their feet on Pakistani soil
• Themselves follow Western culture, but blame Pakistanis of not following their own culture
  
• Ignorant of Pakistan's history, culture and psyche. Believes that culture is static and not evolutionary.
  
• Are themselves of a hybrid race, Pakistani father and non-Pakistani mother. Yet blame others of being not proud of their "pure race."

Pure race? Yeh kya majra ha ?

 

[El Sidd]

Last time I checked Pakistanis are the largest pool of scholarships in China

And why haven't we turned Chinese yet.

There is massive corruption in Pakistan if you need a reminder.

 

[Salmanov]

Not all Afghan empires were Pukhtoon. We viewed Sikh empire as occupiers.

Your sense of history is a bit off.



@Itachi I am not fighting anyone, but this guy tried to join with Indians and others against me, even tried to use my personal life against me. Alhamdulilah I did not tell him much about me, as he wanted me to. I had a bad feeling from the beginning.

He is not a good person, suffice to say I am done with him. May Allah swt give him Hidayat and Hikmat.

Let us talk about more positive things.



That is because I do not accept their narrative that Pakistanis do not know our heritage.

We can all trace our lineages by clan, village, and sharajtul nasab. Any true Pakistani will know that.

We are confident and have a healthy relationship with our identity. Being friends with Turks and Arabs does not lessen our sense of ourselves.



My friends keep asking me to come to Turkey, I have friends from all over your country, even rural areas. I was planning a visit also with my family, but COVID.

Pakistan has a vibrant and diverse culture. All climates and geographical zones. Like Turkey, Pakistan is on the crossroads of different areas (ME, Central Asia, and South Asia.)



I was shocked when I began watching Turkish dramas and meeting more friends from Turkey, our cultures are so alike in many ways.

How they are occupiers when they were Punjabi you brainwashed islamist?

Suggest the triangle. Islamabad, Peshawar, Lahore and Northern Areas.

There is. I agree with @OsmanAli98 that since 1970s post Arab oil bonanza we have seen a process of Arabization in Pakistani society. Khuda Hafiz replaced with Allah Hafiz, increasing use of the Arab robes as dress, most religious parties are permeated with Arab influence. The problem is this takes us on path to the most backward part of the Muslim world ~ Arabian peninsula. The high mark of Muslim civilization was in Baghdad, Cairo, Granada, Esfahan, Istanbul.

The process of Turkification which will take place if Turkish series like Ertrugul make inroads into Pakistan is a good thing. It will prime our people for the evolution turkey has seen. Not Bollywood. Not Saudization.

Why not? And do you want me to list the invasions and colonization you have been through?

The difference is that we don’t suffer from inferiority complex and we don’t consider the invaders as part of our history and culture like the sassanids, Byzantines, Greeks mean nothing for Iraqis and Egyptians

 

[Psychic]

Pure race? Yeh kya majra ha ?

Maybe, I did not write what I meant to say. Will edit.

That gem will make you understand what I mean.

pseudo religious filled with confused individuals who want to tie us to Arabs,Turks and Persians do we lack self esteem as a people we have kaleidoscope of nationalities straddling the Indus River Valley and basin cmon

There are many like the above one.

Now, the said diverse nationalities in "Indus Pakistan" do have some nationalities(a tiny minority) like Syeds, Alwis, Shirazis, Mirzas, Baigs etc whose ancestors are Arabs, Persians or Turks. Does that make them any less Pakistani, or do they become inferiority complex ridden just for stating their lineage? Will he say the same to an Irish American, or an Italian American?The hatred of he and his godfather Indus Pakistan against the muhajir community is already infront of everyone as they mock them for being of a "Gangu" origin despite them being Pakistani Muslims and more patriot then them.
The accusation which he hurls at many Pakistanis is that they falsely claim those lineage because they have inferiority complex. The impression that he gives is that everyone is a pure local breed of that region(Indus valley) with no foreign settlers. That impression is self-deceiving at best since many came from outside who settled in this region starting from the time of Bin Qasim's invasion. Then the intermixing with the locals also happened, including instances of "outsiders" marrying among new converts.

Now these accusations of not being proud of our local races coming from someone who himself is a hybrid makes no sense to me.

That is what I meant, not sure if I conveyed it right.

Coming to his ignorance about Pakistani culture, I already mentioned about the Arabic, Turkic and Persian influences on our cuisine, religion, ideology, clothing and festivals. Most of our popular dishes like Pulao, qorma, kebab, helwa etc are not local to the Indic people but are of the same Turk,Persian origin which he abhors. Shalwar Qameez was not worn by IVC people, it is a Kurd dress brought in the 13th century. That is what Pakistani culture is today and how it has evolved over the course of the past thousand years, it has already absorbed many things from those who are called outside invaders by revisionists like him. Now, unless we want to revert to wearing white lioncloths and eating daal and dahi baras only, we cannot exclude Turkic/Persian influences which were by and large brought by Mughals and Delhi Sultanate who themselves are of Turkic origin and who forged our(local people's) fate.

@DESERT FIGHTER Forgot to mention this one , quoting @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan

However yes, our guest here is 100% Republican alt-right social media creation. As if his anti-immigrant, anti-black, and anti-Turk sentiment was not proof enough.

The days when he was new to pdf...

Its hard for folks under 35 or even 20 like me to understand Pakistan prior to the 1980s was hell out of different place

^
More self-deception.

This khuda hafiz v Allah Hafiz is a myth created by a blogger.. which was forst published in some paper and taken by indian media.

Unlike you ppl we live in Pakistan, and say whatever we like Allah Hafiz/Khuda Hafiz and in 30 years of my existence i have yet to see someone correct me.

Your personal experiences dont define a country of 210 million people..

Arabisation lol, what are the clear cut examples of that?

Funny thing is, Khuda is itself a Persian word. Their English language and culture is not threatened by import of Latin and French words but somehow Pakistan will be doomed by saying Allah instead of Khuda. These idiots think that this is the biggest challenge which Pakistan faces.

I mean, I don't want to eulogize Arabs but why hate them either?

Why conveniently forget the contribution of KSA towards our economic stability after nuclear tests? If we can have good relations with an Arab country or for that matter, even Turkey, why are these people crying in agony? Are they going to provide jobs to millions of our workers who work in GCC? Whenever in need of economic bailout, run with begging bowl towards KSA and expect help from them before continuing Arab-bashing.

Somehow, the definition of Pakistaniyat according to these uber-liberals is to bash Arabs.

@Psychic

told ya its about Allah

Yes it is.

Osman Ali's overlord Indus Pakistan says it quiet clearly and openly albeit in a coded manner.

 

[El Sidd]

Yes it is.

Osman Ali's overlord Indus Pakistan says it quiet clearly and openly albeit in a coded manner.

Its not coded at all. Its there for everyone to see.

No one cares actually. Its a self healing mechanism. Hint: Honor Killings

 

[Desert Fox]

LoL.

The Delhi Sultanate which ruled modern day Pakistan(and India) were Turkic with roots in Central Asia. Later in the sixteenth century, Babur came. Babur, the founder of the Mughal empire was a Timurid Turkic prince who came from modern day Uzbekistan. Those who ruled these lands for a thousand years spoke Turkic language in their harems and used Persian as their court language. Urdu itself is a Turkic word, a language which was a mixture of Turkic, Persian, Sansikrat and Arabic. Much of Pakistan's modern culture has borrowed massively from the culture "imposed" by Timurid Turkic Mughals including the language, cuisine and festivals. Kurta and Pajama, Sherwani, Helwa, Pulao, qourma and Kebab originated in Central Asia, not in the Indus Valley. Shalwar qameez was not the dress of the people of the Indus Valley Civilization, it was brought by the Muslims in 13th century. Had our forefathers not borrowed anything at all from those "foreign" cultures, the "sons of soil" or "inheritors" of the Indus Valley Civilization would be wearing white dhotis(read lioncloths) today just like the one that Gandhi wore. Eating burgers and pizzas is OK but if we eat shwarma than all libbus go bonkers and blame us of borrowing Arab culture.

We consider Muhammad PBUH who was an Arab to be our greatest leader, not the local Raja Dahir or Jay Pal. Pakistani culture already has many influences from "outside" including the dominant religion itself (Islam was meant for all of mankind, not just for Arabs alone). That is how cultures evolve. There is no one alive today who proudly follows to the letter what the people of the Indus Valley Civilization did as a part of their "indigenous" culture; not sure what you guys mean when you hammer the term Indus Valley Civilization because that civilization exists no more. The local culture evolved over a period of a thousand years and was influenced heavily by "foreign invaders" who made this place their own land and their own country and shaped its future.

If you ever watch that TV drama Ertugrul, you won't feel any threat to the Pakistani culture at all as it more or less resonates with the cultural, religious and moral values we already uphold; it does not present something which is radical or totally alien to the local Pakistani culture. On the other hand, we would never accept things like Third Wave Feminism, Gay Rights Movements and desensitization of degeneracy which Hollywood and the West promotes (things which Ertugrul bashers also promote and don't think of them as a threat to Pakistani culture). Pakistanis wear jeans and T-shirt, watch bollywood and Indian soap operas in which a man prays to an idol before going to work, watch Hollywood movies which don't reflect our culture at all, if all of that doesn't pose a threat to Pakistani culture then so doesn't Ertugrul.

P.S, last Chief Minister of Sindh and the current one are Syeds(Arab origins). So, you want to exile them to Arabia? People settled from outside in this region throughout history, you cannot disown them because of their Arab or Persian origins.

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Desert Fox

Well said brother.

Been extremely busy so haven't been active lately, but will try to get around to giving my take on this issue.

But I will give a short nutshell summary right now of what the gist of my post will be:

Islam --> Muslims --> Pakistan

Without the message of Islam there would be no Muslims in the Indian subcontinent. And without Muslims there would be no Pakistan.

One of the greatest proponents of Islam within the subcontinent were Turkic rulers who established themselves in this region.

Note, that the Turks took the mantel of carrying Islam from the Arabs, which proves that Islam needs no race of culture to survive or thrive.

Turka were at their zenith in history under banner of Islam, just as were the Arabs who before Islam were a disorganized bunch of warring tribes.

Turks and Arabs of today have lost that vigour they possessed in the past.

But, having taken into consideration the role Arabs and Turks played in Islamic legacy it is understandable why Pakistanis are receptive and welcoming of a depiction of Turkic Muslim warriors back when Muslims still had a spine.

It's not the Turks being admired here, but rather their love for Islam through which their attained their zenith.

Therefore islamic Turkic culture and legacy is in no way shape or form a threat to Pakistan or its identity since Pakistan wouldn't even exist right now if not for the former.

@OsmanAli98 @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @LeGenD

 

[Psychic]

Well said brother.

Been extremely busy so haven't been active lately, but will try to get around to giving my take on this issue.

But I will give a short nutshell summary right now of what the gist of my post will be:

Islam --> Muslims --> Pakistan

Without the message of Islam there would be no Muslims in the Indian subcontinent. And without Muslims there would be no Pakistan.

One of the greatest proponents of Islam within the subcontinent were Turkic rulers who established themselves in this region.

Note, that the Turks took the mantel of carrying Islam from the Arabs, which proves that Islam needs no race of culture to survive or thrive.

Turka were at their zenith in history under banner of Islam, just as were the Arabs who before Islam were a disorganized bunch of warring tribes.

Turks and Arabs of today have lost that vigour they possessed in the past.

But, having taken into consideration the role Arabs and Turks played in Islamic legacy it is understandable why Pakistanis are receptive and welcoming of a depiction of Turkic Muslim warriors back when Muslims still had a spine.

It's not the Turks being admired here, but rather their love for Islam through which their attained their zenith.

Therefore islamic Turkic culture and legacy is in no way shape or form a threat to Pakistan or its identity since Pakistan wouldn't even exist right now if not for the former.

@OsmanAli98 @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @LeGenD

The real reason for their stomach-ache is the conservative and Islamic undertone of that TV serial. Not some imagined threat to Pakistani culture from Turk influence. All Pakistani self proclaimed liberals are bashing this show 24/7 for a reason on social media.

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Urdu speakers butt- hurt of seeing Turkey drama challenging there cRaP

Are u f**** stupid or what? Go through this forum and go for posts of @Indus Pakistan and @OsmanAli98 about Urdu speakers and Culture of Arab and Turkey than come and Bark here

@dBSPL Don't forget to visit Karachi

 

[AUz]

You got to be kidding me. Babylonians [modern day Iraqi's] were raped into becoming Arabs. so much now they actually think they have Arab forefathers. The Eygptians. don't start me on them. They went from Copts and native Egyptians of the Nile Delta to becoming artificial Arabs. Newsflash. Arabs and Arabic is from Arabian Peninsula.

All the other 'Arabs' are products of invasion, rape, miscegnation ...

Here comes the low-IQ curmudgeon who is perpetually mad that his secular narrative has been laughed and mocked by Pakistanis on this forum, and all the evidence of history is against his retarded, reductionist notions that he gets from Wikipedia.

I remember people used to take you seriously, and now----you barely get interacted with on this forum since most just roll their eyes on your continuous squealing like a puppy

Let's give you few lessons in history, shall we you man-child?

Here, an Egyptian copt----who was very anti-Islam----writing about Arab-rule in Egypt and the justice it carried (which was quite unprecedented in medieval times, mind you).

Here, a report of Jizyah being returned by Muslims when Muslim were not able to protect non-Muslims against Romans (as per the contract). Showing Jizyah was based on contractual terms, and not exploitative taxation of a conquered people

Historian writing about the myth of "rape, pillage, forced conversion" blah blah. Arab Conquests didn't do any of those things...

Btw, Egypt was conquered in the 6th century by Amr Ibn Al Aas (companion of the Prophet PBUH), but it wasn't a majority Muslim country until the 10th-11th century. Showing that the 'Arabization' linked with Islam was a gradual, mostly consensual social process that took place over centuries, and not "forced" by sword and rape like it happened in Latin America

But hey, keep vomiting your frustrations on here. Provides a nice laugh to most of us

How they are occupiers when they were Punjabi you brainwashed islamist?

You have to be stupid to even write that. Ranjit Singh banned Azaan (Islamic Call to prayer) in Punjab, banned Beef consumption in Punjab, forced Muslim Punjabis in his service to eat pork (to test their loyalties to the Sikh raaj), and desecrated major Mosques (Used the largest Mosque of Punjab as whore-house, famously).

 

[Max]

Although Turkish drama series have been aired before in Pakistan, Ertugrul is breaking all the previous records. According to a rough estimate, around 134 million people watched it from April 25 to May 14. As requested by Prime Minister Khan, Ertugrul was dubbed in Urdu and aired on the state-run channel PTV. The viewership of PTV’s YouTube channel has gone above 2 million while the popularity of series increasing with every passing day.

Do you know Dirilis was released in Pakistan on Hum TV like 5 years ago and no one care to watch? That's how boring it was..

Its now hit bcoz of social media propaganda mostly by PTI guys bcoz their leader recommended it to watch.


There is no debate in Pakistan on the status of Islamic republic. There is no discussion regarding this in mainstream media or Parliament of Pakistan. There is no discussion even on Pakistani or Turkish ideology, there are just few lowly liberal scums working for 3rd rated tabloids who hate Pakistan and Pakistani ideology to the core and they live in their own world. The problem is they think everyone is thinking what they are thinking but its not the case.

its like someone start writing articles on foreign funded 3rd rated website about conquest of Ottomans and declare it genocide of Christian Europeans, few Turks counter his argument... but at the same time author start thinking that All Turks believe what he is writing, its biggest debate in Turkey... etc just like Pakistani lowly authors believe its debate in Pakistan, but there is no such debate on any of national platform.

The article is perfect example of low self esteem and dignity.

author may know this but he still tried to sale fake notion presenting Pakistan as subservient to Saudi and Irani ideologies (Fiefdom vs Mullahism) , just to show that Pakistani suffer from crisis which is not true, we are not allies with Saudi Arabia bcoz its Sunni majority, there are 50 more Sunni Majority countries, Majority of Pakistani Sunni follow Hanafi Madhab with touch of light Sufism which is more closer with Afghans, Central Asians, Benaglis Then its with Arabs (yet we are not great allies with them),

we consider Saudi ally bcoz Saudi Kings/Govt supported us through thick and thin, our govt told us that its important relationship bcoz of Holy cities of Makkah and Madinah, Saudi supported us thinking we Pakistanis will fight their wars, on which we failed them recently and they are angry, so does we on their behavior.. but still they are source of good foreign remittance and hold great economic influence.

 

[El Sidd]

I was banned for using the word Ishtar too.

 

[Nein]

Since when do Pakistani Liberals and Secularists ever care about Pakistan where ever they go they put down their nation to please the white man.

Where is this nationalism from them??

Even Turkish secularists are more nationalistic than the Pakistani ones.

Pakistanis liberals hate everything Islamic and Muslim about Pakistan to the point where they become racist at their own people.