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French Secularism: Debate on banning all Religious symbols !

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France’s governing party debates secularism

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Jean-Francois Cope, France's UMP political party leader, speaks during a UMP party's debate on secularism in Paris. France's ruling conservatives will discuss a framework for the practice of Islam in French society on Tuesday at a debate which has forced the party to fend off accusations of bigotry. The slogan reads “ Secularism, to live better together”. -Reuters Photo


PARIS: President Nicolas Sarkozy’s governing conservative party held a politically charged conference Tuesday on ways to strengthen secularism in French society, amid worries it would stigmatize France’s millions of Muslims.

The UMP were considering 26 ideas that party officials say are aimed at bringing France’s stringent laws decreeing the separation of church from state into step with the times.

With Europe’s largest Muslim population, estimated at about 5 million, France is much changed from 1905, when the secularism laws were adopted, and they’re in urgent need of revamping, the party argues.

The proposals discussed Tuesday include banning the wearing of religious symbols such as Muslim headscarves or prominent Christian crosses by day-care personnel and preventing Muslim mothers from wearing headscarves when accompanying school field trips.

It also would prevent parents from taking their children out of mandatory subjects including gym and biology.

The debate could lead to a legislative bill in the National Assembly, where the UMP has a majority.


The round-table comes about a week before a new law banning garments that hide the face takes effect. Under the measure, which takes effect on April 11, women who wear the face-shrouding veils risk a fine, special classes and a police record.

The discussion also comes as Sarkozy’s poll numbers continue to slide and with the far-right National Front resurgent under its new party leadership. Critics from the opposition Socialist party contend the debate is an electoral ploy aimed at appealing to voters who could be swayed by the National Front.

UMP leader Jean-Francois Cope insisted Monday that France needs clearer rules about how Muslims should adapt their religious practices to French society.


”The practice of Islam in France is not the burqa. It is not prayers in the street,” he said.

In some neighborhoods with large Muslim immigrant communities, the lack of mosques or prayer rooms means crowds gather on sidewalks and cobblestone streets at prayer times.

Cope tried to distance himself from the National Front. ”They denounce (Muslim practices). We are making proposals” to ease social tensions, he said.

The leaders of France’s main religions have expressed concern about the debate, saying it’s not the right forum for such a discussion. Several religious figures took part, however, with varying degrees of enthusiasm.

”We were not for this debate in the format that was presented,” France’s chief rabbi, Gilles Bernheim, told reporters. France also has western Europe’s largest Jewish population.

Singh Ranjit, of the group Sikhs of France, said, ”This concerns all of us because we all have difficulties as religious minorities when it comes to the relationship we have with the authorities.”

The debate has also taken on an international dimension.
A former foreign minister of the Comoros Islands, a largely Muslim nation in the Indian Ocean, said on the debate’s sidelines that France’s influence goes beyond its geographical limits.

”Unfortunately because of what they call quarrels within France, people don’t measure the impact that France has all over the world.”

On the eve of the rountable, Interior Minister Claude Gueant tried to make a case for the need for the meeting but appeared to have further angered many.

”This growth in the number of (Muslims) and a certain number of behaviors cause problems,” he said in remarks carried on French radio on Monday.

”There is no reason why the nation should accord to one particular religion more rights than religions that were formerly anchored in our country.”

The Movement Against Racism and for Friendship Among Peoples said Tuesday that it would file a legal complaint, accusing Gueant of ”Islamophobic statements.”

Gueant’s predecessor, Brice Hortefeux, was convicted of racism based on a complaint by the same anti-racism group over comments regarding a UMP member of North African descent. He has appealed the conviction and the higher court has yet to rule on the appeal.

In France, the interior minister is primarily in charge of police and public security but is also oversees religious affairs.

France’s governing party debates secularism | World | DAWN.COM




Here we go again !


And -- some say -- Secularism = religious freedom - go fool someone else !
 
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Seems silly how on earth do you enforce a band on head scarves? Ok a full burqa is sort of easy to spot but how do you tell if a woman is wearing a head scarf because she is Muslim or because she just likes scarves or she just had her hair done and its a windy day?
 
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Seems silly how on earth do you enforce a band on head scarves? Ok a full burqa is sort of easy to spot but how do you tell if a woman is wearing a head scarf because she is Muslim or because she just likes scarves or she just had her hair done and its a windy day?

i.e wise men all over the world understand that Sarkozy is a hyperactive moron...

He has brought much shame to France... lets see what else is in the pipeline... ban on being humans??
 
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Seems silly how on earth do you enforce a band on head scarves? Ok a full burqa is sort of easy to spot but how do you tell if a woman is wearing a head scarf because she is Muslim or because she just likes scarves or she just had her hair done and its a windy day?

What right do you have to tell others what they are going to wear? Isn't that the language of 'democracy and human rights' taught by the west in the Muslim World? The west is full of hypocrisy!
 
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He ain`t a jew. Your Username, your grammar and this sentence shows why the French are so worried.

Jean-François Copé, born in Boulogne-Billancourt (Hauts-de-Seine), is the son of Professor Roland Copé, a surgeon of Romanian Jewish origin, and Monique Ghanassia of Algerian Jewish origin. Raised in a French Jewish family

Jean-François Copé - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Whoever he is , doesn't make any difference - all that matters is what he does , this is what makes him a human or a moron !
 
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Its there country, Its there law... Lets not forget the contribution of France on modern world... French revolution redefined the concept of nation state... these gentlemen are not asking you not to practice your religion, you are free to practice your religion... But not on Public places ...

I will quote one incident in my organization... It was year of 2007, month of ramdan, few muslim colleague were bringing mat and performing 5 time azan on top of our office building... Our management took it very badly and warned them not to do it.. same for Holi or deepawali, we are not free to celebrate these events in office hours...
 
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Banning all symbols ?? Excellent move. And if possible every country should follow suit.

Religion is a personal thing to be cherished in your heart not to flaunt in public.
 
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he's not a jew you kidding he's an hungarian imigrant (his parents)jewish in origin
For this, he was Copé who asked for it
and not Sarkozy and Sarkozy is totally christian and said many times he is proud of heritage of catholic in France

About the people in a street in Paris which made debate: there were muslims who wanted to show they are tired to have no place for praying
And then the national front (fascist parti) made a lot of blabla about this

Sarkozy and Cope they see that the national front are stronger in France now
so they try to take the votes of some of the electors
even a part of the UMP parti of Sarkozy said they didn't agree with too much focusing on Islam and reminds that laic system is respect of any religion
prime minister was among them to criticize it

As well for the people who always blame Jews:
the Grand Rabin of France , the organizations of Islam, the Church came ALL TOGETHER to say they didn't want this anti Islam behavior
they say that this debate particular on Islam is not at all about laic

Anyway it lasted only three hours and after three hours they didn't say much


there is worst than this happened yesterday:
the interior minister said it was worrying there were so many muslims in France
he was the guy who already said about Libya it was a crusade
they are some racist and stupid people near Sarkozy, everyone noticed here ;)
 
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Many people are saying the motive behind it is sinister( which may be the case).
But there is a good reason to ban face veil. It stops people from integrating with society.(especially european society which is free and open).
I dont think french are banning hijab.
 
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Many people are saying the motive behind it is sinister( which may be the case).
But there is a good reason to ban face veil. It stops people from integrating with society.(especially european society which is free and open).
I dont think french are banning hijab.

Muslims should not integrate in the rotten permissive western society...

No harm in being a good citizens with some morals and principles in this day and age :)
 
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