French FM offers India 1 bn to fund projects, as Rafale talks stall

[Aarush]

On visit to New Delhi, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius, offered to give India up to 1 billion euros in credit to fund its sustainable infrastructure and urban development projects. This, as talks on a $12 billion (8 billion euro) Rafale deal stalled.

The 1 billion euro credit line will be distributed through the French development agency over a three-year period, said Laurent Fabius on Tuesday.

India, which has said it needs $1 trillion of investment by 2017 to upgrade its infrastructure, is keen to attract foreign development agencies and companies to help finance new roads, railways and cities.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, who took office in May, wants to reinforce India's status as a regional power, and has whetted the appetite of Western powers, who are all scrambling for a piece of its economic pie.

Fabius said he was confident that French aviation company Dassault would be able to supply New Delhi with 126 Rafale fighter jets worth 12 billion dollars (8 billion euros). But on Tuesday he sounded less upbeat after a meeting with Modi.

"The next step is for Dassault and the (Indian) government to discuss the details which have not yet been discussed and hopefully to reach a conclusion," he told news agency reporters. "For us, the earlier the better ... but it's a normal negotiation and the way it must be."

The contract has been under negotiation for two years. And rival countries like Britain see this as a potential opportunity to sideline the French and push forward their own Eurofighter jets.
However, extending a credit line to the Indians, could allow France to boost it ties with the South Asian nation, and gain an early link to the country's future infrastructure schemes, if it it fails to conquer its aviation industry.


French FM offers India 1 bn to fund projects, as Rafale talks stall - France - RFI

 

[GURU DUTT]

i guess deep down there is a feeling seeping in the western defnce contractors that india might not be that good "coustmer" as it was under "sonia & co raj"

 

[Aarush]

French are desperate to get this deal final because if deal don't get sign then it could be the disaster for Rafele.
for india sigining this deal with maximum benifit is in national interest where LCA still has to clear FOC and IAF is already in their falling squadron strength, PAKFA is no where in picture....so how to address this issue?? Eurofighter is good plane but have lots of stakeholders on other hand France is relaible partner of india.
French knows this and could negotiate for maximum of their benifit.

Both Parties very close to deal but seems too far.

 

[Tshering22]

i guess deep down there is a feeling seeping in the western defnce contractors that india might not be that good "coustmer" as it was under "sonia & co raj"

That is alright but we need jets. And we don't see Tejas becoming an MCA anytime soon. And the real MCA is still an aerodynamics model.

Rather than re-bidding their offer, give a two month deadline to consider negotiations and then simply select the next big option. Gripen NG or Typhoon if Rafale deal is not budging.

 

[GURU DUTT]

That is alright but we need jets. And we don't see Tejas becoming an MCA anytime soon. And the real MCA is still an aerodynamics model.

Rather than re-bidding their offer, give a two month deadline to consider negotiations and then simply select the next big option. Gripen NG or Typhoon if Rafale deal is not budging.

well i guess we should buy 8 squads Su-35 with AESA radar instead of rafale and MKIies it just like Su-30 buy that we will save at least 5 billion dallars each in training and infrastructure and maintainence

 

[Tshering22]

well i guess we should buy 8 squads Su-35 with AESA radar instead of rafale and MKIies it just like Su-30 buy that we will save at least 5 billion dallars each in training and infrastructure and maintainence

Then whole point of MRCA was NOT to depend on one country for all our needs. If we had to buy Su-35 we could have simply ordered MiG-35. All aircraft met the criteria by default but the bidding was just to see who could be a strong strategic partner.

It is funny why France is not budging considering that they hardly have customers while EFT and Gripen are still looking for the deal so seriously despite having global customer base.

If we got anything Russian now, IAF will be the second Russian air force on earth.

We need a mix of foreign and Indian made fighters. Don't forget that.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Then whole point of MRCA was NOT to depend on one country for all our needs. If we had to buy Su-35 we could have simply ordered MiG-35. All aircraft met the criteria by default but the bidding was just to see who could be a strong strategic partner.

It is funny why France is not budging considering that they hardly have customers while EFT and Gripen are still looking for the deal so seriously despite having global customer base.

If we got anything Russian now, IAF will be the second Russian air force on earth.

We need a mix of foreign and Indian made fighters. Don't forget that.

well in case of that then buy 4 squads of typhoons with AESA then and make a deal with sweden about LCA

 

[Aarush]

well in case of that then buy 4 squads of typhoons with AESA then and make a deal with sweden about LCA

They are good but Rafele is best as per requirements of india with more A2G role fighter as compared to SU 35 or MKIs.
LCA is in different league which is mainly interceptor or point defence fighter. Rafele also has naval varient where india may have interest in future.
and the IAF is also satisfied user of french fighters which have proven their capabilty again in Kargil as compared to MIG 27 or MIG 23. also France is very reliable partner than other europian countries like Germany.
India should go for this deal with their max benifit and TOT and who knows if there is already a negotiation to develop Tejas MK II with French assistence.

 

[GURU DUTT]

They are good but Rafele is best as per requirements of india with more A2G role fighter as compared to SU 35 or MKIs.
LCA is in different league which is mainly interceptor or point defence fighter. Rafele also has naval varient where india may have interest in future.
and the IAF is also satisfied user of french fighters which have proven their capabilty again in Kargil as compared to MIG 27 or MIG 23. also France is very reliable partner than other europian countries like Germany.
India should go for this deal with their max benifit and TOT and who knows if there is already a negotiation to develop Tejas MK II with French assistence.

2 things

1.yes rafale was developed as a advanced A2G capabllities besides bieng a fighter ircraft while typhoon was an advanced fighter jet from day one but in deu course even typhoon was given A2G design inputs

2. french are too greedy and they wilnever give india so called TOT (scorpene subs) so i guess its a waste ofindian tax payers money to buy rafale

 

[Aarush]

2 things

1.yes rafale was developed as a advanced A2G capabllities besides bieng a fighter ircraft while typhoon was an advanced fighter jet from day one but in deu course even typhoon was given A2G design inputs

2. french are too greedy and they wilnever give india so called TOT (scorpene subs) so i guess its a waste ofindian tax payers money to buy rafale

typhoon over rafele is not good thing for india....because it has many nations involved and each one has their own foreign policies and if war breaks out....there is no gurantee that spare part or other support would come and on top of this they can demand for embargo because each one has their own set of attitude and the weapons for rafele are all of french made and even the third party weapons can be easily assembled like we had in kargil war where israel's laser guided bombs were easily loaded in Mirage but in case of typhoon most of the weapons like air to air missiles are of USA made..which is the prime disadvantage.

 

[GURU DUTT]

typhoon over rafele is not good thing for india....because it has many nations involved and each one has their own foreign policies and if war breaks out....there is no gurantee that spare part or other support would come and on top of this they can demand for embargo because each one has their own set of attitude and the weapons for rafele are all of french made and even the third party weapons can be easily assembled like we had in kargil war where israel's laser guided bombs were easily loaded in Mirage but in case of typhoon most of the weapons like air to air missiles are of USA made..which is the prime disadvantage.

well the bottom line is

1. india needs very urgentlli the best MRCA as both china and pakistan are ganging up on its western and eastern borders

2. India has a good pool of sientist who given a proper chance can make a very good fighter but that is taking time

3. Both USA & France know that they produce the best and india neads there hardware & like a shrewd buisnessmen they are bargaining hard (they should cause its there investment)

4.Rafle is best suited but its way too expensive (but no cost is higher enof for your security) having said that there is a twist french know that there rafale program is doomed if india now changes its mind so they also dont want to loose the ontract and it is here we should get the best whats in owr interest

now india has few options

1. take the deal as french want it
2. modify the deal and reduce the order
3.buy russian Su-35 with latest sries AL-41F engines with AESA radar and other goodies
4.or simply exlarate tejas program & set up moreproduction facalities with help of private players and invest its money to have 4 LCAs(with AESA) at the price of one rafale

lets see the picture willbe clear onliafter couple of months

 

[SR-91]

well i guess we should buy 8 squads Su-35 with AESA radar instead of rafale and MKIies it just like Su-30 buy that we will save at least 5 billion dallars each in training and infrastructure and maintainence

Ties with Russia have been on the down hill, maybe buying SU-35 is on the table. It definitely saves time and billions. So, whats more important, friendship / ties with French or Russia. One thing we know for sure, we will find out soon.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Ties with Russia have been on the down hill, maybe buying SU-35 is on the table. It definitely saves time and billions. So, whats more important, friendship / ties with French or Russia. One thing we know for sure, we will find out soon.

ties with russia went down hill after UPA govt fudged the groshkov deal to have "there cut" so russians also got greedy it was not russians at faultr but owr own politicians

and if that was not enof they went whole hog to buy american equipment which was almost twice the ammount so they could get "there cut"

im sure with Su-35 deal it will be good old days... russians have always stood by us but if we try to be oversmart then they have others buyers too we should remmber it

 

[axisofevil]

French are desperate to get this deal final because if deal don't get sign then it could be the disaster for Rafele.
for india sigining this deal with maximum benifit is in national interest where LCA still has to clear FOC and IAF is already in their falling squadron strength, PAKFA is no where in picture....so how to address this issue?? Eurofighter is good plane but have lots of stakeholders on other hand France is relaible partner of india.
French knows this and could negotiate for maximum of their benifit.

Both Parties very close to deal but seems too far.

Nah France is not as reliable as you think. France equally has given weapons to Pakistan whenever we gained an edge, thus provoking an arms race. Yet, they have the audacity to lecture and scare us about it. This french plane is crap, Typhoon is better and the European consortium has pledged to give us a stake and make us an equal partner.


If we have concerns about the future and how these countries will try to bottleneck us, then I suggest India coordinate a plan that addresses that first and foremost. Western countries may be willing to play ball, or the very least whatever reply is given, their intent will be seen.


Chanakya

 

[cirr]

India needs to a get a firm grip on this matter and move ahead as soon as possible，for China is scheduled to formally induct J-20（Status A）in 2016。

Not to mention 3-5 regiments of J-10Bs and J-10Cs by 2017.