French Avionics for JF-17

[Awesome]

These days whenever I hear of French deals, I imagine kickbacks.

 

[TaimiKhan]

So the stage-1 for JF-17s is nearly set.

150 JF-17s, in which 50 with Chinese avionics and missiles and rest 100 with western ones.

Stage-2 to be seen if we go ahead of the 150 JF-17s and if yes, what type of JF-17s are they gonna be. are we gonna see another evolution of JF-17s to become something different class of fighter or same old JF-17s or even NO JF-17s at all.

PAF in 2015-16 time frame seems to be having:

hopefully & approx 150 JF-17s
hopefully & approx 60 F-16s
hopefully & approx 36 FC-20s

rest would be the F-7PGs and ROSE upgraded Mirages.

 

[conworldus]

I don't think any avionics is worth $15 million a piece. I imagine there is something else going on.

 

[PakSher]

France is a reliable partner and french technology has been in use in the Pakistani Armed Forces for 5 decades. The initial costs of every R&D Project are high, but can be reduced with each additional unit rolled out. This is a normal process. The cost pf 400 fighters will be lower per unit. We may have a JF-17 for the first 150 units and then a new JF-18 or JF-19 version, which is more stealthier and better.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

These days whenever I hear of French deals, I imagine kickbacks.

Would you be okay with this though if it brought the nation closer to superior technology, especially in the defense sector? If Zardari's greed rests in the threshold of a few million...I am sure AF is willing to pay the price...in fact I may be too if it puts up a credible conventional deterrence that was not fulfilled under past governments consecutively to large extents. Maybe we can come to think of it as the Bibi Tax?

 

[TaimiKhan]

These days whenever I hear of French deals, I imagine kickbacks.

Can't blame you Sir for that, rather we all think that way, but talks about French avionics and MBDA missiles had been on the scene for a very long time, at that time even Zardari was in jail.

So hopefully no kickbacks this time. what's wrong in hoping.

 

[TaimiKhan]

I don't think any avionics is worth $15 million a piece. I imagine there is something else going on.

It includes missiles also, and MAY BE some local level of limited ToT for avionics or atleast an overhauling and maintenance facility as per past practice.

 

[graphican]

An aircraft having defeated F-16s in air to air combat during training missions, whose pilots have been transferred from the F-16s, pilots who are not willing to go back to the F-16s, deserves more then to be ranked then just a trainer.

Or should i be saying, ignorance is a .................................

Becoming skeptic for a moment, I want to ask could this be a reason for Pilots to stay with JF-17s and not go back to F-16s that F-16s are a lot more expensive and important to National Defense and thus its pilots must always stay at the top edge of their performance, attentiveness, diligence and discipline while JF-17s being relatively low valued and easy to repair would allow pilots to be more relaxed and easy on their career? There wouldn't be any difference in the benefits of F-16 Pilots and JF-17s Pilots, so one can think why should he burn more blood to be F-16's pilot while he could be relaxed and rewarded the same benifits as becoming a JF-17's pilot? I don't know how things work in PAF but I am just thinking loud here and I want to convince myself every possible way that JF-17s are actually and exactly what I am learning about them.

Please share your thoughts on that angle.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

why are people panicking?

It will cost pakistan 2.1 billion dollars to upgrade 100 block 15 F-16s to MLU M3 standard excluding Weapons and Engine upgrade.

So 1.4 billion dollars worth of weapons avionics radars for 100 jf-17 is quite a good deal.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Becoming skeptic for a moment, I want to ask could this be a reason for Pilots to stay with JF-17s and not go back to F-16s that F-16s are a lot more expensive and important to National Defense and thus its pilots must always stay at the top edge of their performance, attentiveness, diligence and discipline while JF-17s being relatively low valued and easy to repair would allow pilots to be more relaxed and easy on their career? There wouldn't be any difference in the benefits of F-16 Pilots and JF-17s Pilots, so one can think why should he burn more blood to be F-16's pilot while he could be relaxed and rewarded the same benifits as becoming a JF-17's pilot? I don't know how things work in PAF but I am just thinking loud here and I want to convince myself every possible way that JF-17s are actually and exactly what I am learning about them.

Please share your thoughts on that angle.

The pilots were given an option if they wish to revert back to the F-16 program as shortage of pilots was being faced in the F-16.

And the pilots not reverting back to F-16s was not due to the reasons you mentioned, rather it was due to the flying characteristics and ease of handling of JF-17s which made them stay. The radar of current JF-17 is better then the ones which we have in our 80s F-16s, there is very much ease in performing the actions in the cockpit. Lets suppose for a ground attack if you had to push 6 buttons in the F-16s, in JF-17s you need to push 3. The HUD of JF-17 shows more data and functions compared to the F-16s.

F-16s pilots are the best of the lot in PAF who get selected for these Falcons, so if these guys get selected for JF-17s it means there is something superior in them or equal to F-16s that they are willing to stay with this new bird.

Just for further reference do read the below linked post to give you a better idea, that why pilots are loving this bird.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ltirole-fighter-thread-3-a-59.html#post644270

Just to add, i do hope you know the craze Pakistani nation has about these F-16s, similarly the pilots of these F-16s would be more crazier and lovers of their F-16s, so for them leaving or not going back to their old love, means they have found a better lover then the predecessor.

 

[mean_bird]

Oh! for the love God please do not start a "I know what PAF's should do better than all of you" debate here.

Let me ask a few question. Does anyone of you (us) know :

1. Is the UAE AF even willing to offer them?
2. How much the UAE is asking for the Mirages, assuming they are on offer?
3. How much life (flying time) is left in them, particularly the older 32 aircrafts?
4. When can they be released at the earliest?

I think we should leave this question for the other thread (dedicated to Mirages).

Lets talk about what could the possible equipment be?

RC-400 + MICA?

Also remember the french were asking the indians $41million per aircraft just to upgrade their Mirages radar and avionics.

 

[graphican]

The pilots were given an option if they wish to revert back to the F-16 program as shortage of pilots was being faced in the F-16.

And the pilots not reverting back to F-16s was not due to the reasons you mentioned, rather it was due to the flying characteristics and ease of handling of JF-17s which made them stay. The radar of current JF-17 is better then the ones which we have in our 80s F-16s, there is very much ease in performing the actions in the cockpit. Lets suppose for a ground attack if you had to push 6 buttons in the F-16s, in JF-17s you need to push 3. The HUD of JF-17 shows more data and functions compared to the F-16s.

F-16s pilots are the best of the lot in PAF who get selected for these Falcons, so if these guys get selected for JF-17s it means there is something superior in them or equal to F-16s that they are willing to stay with this new bird.

Just for further reference do read the below linked post to give you a better idea, that why pilots are loving this bird.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ltirole-fighter-thread-3-a-59.html#post644270

Just to add, i do hope you know the craze Pakistani nation has about these F-16s, similarly the pilots of these F-16s would be more crazier and lovers of their F-16s, so for them leaving or not going back to their old love, means they have found a better lover then the predecessor.

Thanks for elaborating more on that and shedding some doubts. I think with these avionics in place, JF-17 would be more of a thunder than it is at present.

 

[Kharian_Beast]

why are people pancaking?

It will cost pakistan 2.1 billion dollars to upgrade 100 block 15 F-16s to MLU M3 standard excluding Weapons and Engine upgrade.

So 1.4 billion dollars worth of weapons avionics radars for 100 jf-17 is quite a good deal.

Growler sahb..panicking I saw pancake and immediately got hungry.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Growler sahb..panicking I saw pancake and immediately got hungry.

now i am hungry!!

 

[TaimiKhan]

Thanks God, no ................. has still tried to ruin the party