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Freedom of speech is 'universal' right, Michelle Obama tells China

And THAT has been addressed as well...

Why Edward Snowden is not a whistleblower – Quartz

There is no shortage of legal scholars who disagree with the argument that Snowden is a whistleblower.

The article I quoted addresses the points raised in yours.

In any case, the issue at debate is whether he would be allowed to present his case and the article I quoted showed that he probably wouldn't be -- given past precedent.
 
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The article I quoted post-dates yours and addresses the points raised in yours.

In any case, the issue at debate is whether he would be allowed to present his case and the article I quoted showed that he probably wouldn't be -- given past precedent.
Why the hell should that matter ? :lol:

They all got the same info from the same guy at the same time on what he did and why he did it.

Edward Snowden Is Not A Whistleblower - Business Insider
 
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I'm quite surprised that US government marked India as a democracy. We all know China's human rights status is not good enough, but hey, at least here in China no one is called 'untouchable' or even 'slave'.
 
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Edward Snowden’s claim that he had ‘no proper channels’ for protection as a whistleblower

Robert Turner, associate director at the center for national security law at the University of Virginia School of Law, believes that as a practical matter, Snowden should have gone to oversight committees or the inspector general without much fear of retaliation. “I am very confident that had he gone to the Hill committees or the NSA or DOD or ODNI IGs, it would have been difficult for anyone to engage in retribution against him without considerable personal cost,” he said. “I can’t imagine that there is anyone in a senior position in D.C. dealing with the Intelligence Community who does not understand that Congress would be outraged if it learned of retaliation against a legitimate whistleblower.”
 
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Why the hell should that matter ? :lol:

You need to learn to read English so you can understand the issues being debated.

It will save you embarrassing yourself.

It matters because the legal arguments go to the heart of whether Snowden would be safe within the US or not.

Edward Snowden’s claim that he had ‘no proper channels’ for protection as a whistleblower

Robert Turner, associate director at the center for national security law at the University of Virginia School of Law, believes that as a practical matter, Snowden should have gone to oversight committees or the inspector general without much fear of retaliation. “I am very confident that had he gone to the Hill committees or the NSA or DOD or ODNI IGs, it would have been difficult for anyone to engage in retribution against him without considerable personal cost,” he said. “I can’t imagine that there is anyone in a senior position in D.C. dealing with the Intelligence Community who does not understand that Congress would be outraged if it learned of retaliation against a legitimate whistleblower.”

More silliness and embarrassment for you.

This statement by Turner has been examined and evaluated in the context of past precedent.

Once again, I urge readers to read the link I posted since you, obviously, are incapable of reading English.

P.S. The link to the earlier post, once again.

Freedom of speech is 'universal' right, Michelle Obama tells China | Page 5
 
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You need to learn to read English so you can understand the issues being debated.

It will save you embarrassing yourself.

It matters because the legal arguments go to the heart of whether Snowden would be safe within the US or not.



More silliness and embarrassment for you.

This statement by Turner has been examined and evaluated in the context of past precedent.

Once again, I urge readers to read the link I posted since you, obviously, are incapable of reading English.
Your urging is meaningless.

For one, everyone here recognize that national security is a legitimate justification for what the NSA does and even the scope involved. If Pakistan can do it to India to the extent the NSA could, Pakistan will do it, and not only to India but to the entire world. There are equal valid arguments to both sides on whether Snowden is a whistleblower or not and for you, the fact that he fled to dictatorships and exposed everything to our enemies is the only reason why you are cheering for him. Not because you have any respect for our Constitution.
 
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The US leads the West, and this is what we exports as to be 'universal':

- All persons are created equal
- All have the freedom of speech.
- All have the freedom of association.
- All have the freedom of religion.
- All have the right to make money to make his or her life better.

Is there anything that prevents India from exporting Indian values ? Of course not. It is a matter of PR. All you have to do is explain to Westerners on why it is better for some of them to belong to a caste that is inferior to other castes and that such status will be transferable to their children to infinity. You may need to go violent on that, meaning creating the Hindu version of jihadism and kill anyone who disagree with you.

But if you cannot convince so much of the world that the Indian version of life is superior to what the Westerners exported, may be YOU should bugger off.

I would answer but that would only be to someone who is honest.

It is good for people to take pride in the good parts of their culture and civilization and work to improve what is not good. It is good to respect the good parts of others' culture as well.

There are good and bad parts to all civilizations. The "Western civilization" has good parts and bad as well.

Anyway, I don't respect cheerleaders who have a compulsive need to prove themselves more loyal than the king.I have seen you trying to be racist when people like you are themselves likely victims of that. I have only contempt for such pathetic people.

So please just bugger off...
 
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Oil rich Arab ally states of US couldn't agree more with the first lady.:lol:

She doesn't know how ridiculous she sounds when talking like this.
Democracy is good, especially for rivals, dictatorship is bad, except for allies.
 
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I would answer but that would only be to someone who is honest.

It is good for people to take pride in the good parts of their culture and civilization and work to improve what is not good. It is good to respect the good parts of others' culture as well.

There are good and bad parts to all civilizations. The "Western civilization" has good parts and bad as well.

Anyway, I don't respect cheerleaders who have a compulsive need to prove themselves more loyal than the king.I have seen you trying to be racist when people like you are themselves likely victims of that. I have only contempt for such pathetic people.

So please just bugger off...
You have no answers. I was nice to you Indians in the past. I said nothing about India and even defended her at times. But now you guys want to alienate the few Americans on this forum, you got your wish.

You are not here to debate the issue but only to make a 'drive-by' and a pathetic one at that. Your India have no values worth exporting and you know it. The US and Americans are not perfect but at least our values are high enough to force Americans to constantly reevaluate themselves as a people. If and when we fail, then we know that those values are worth telling the world about and let them do with it whatever they want. We say 'All are created equal.' What does your India say ? You think your respect are desirable by me ? Think again.

So YOU bugger off and go back to whatever hovel you got in India and enjoy or wallow in misery in whatever caste you are borned into. I am a free man in ways you can only imagine. You got nothing the countries of the world want to import into their societies.
 
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You have no answers. I was nice to you Indians in the past. I said nothing about India and even defended her at times. But now you guys want to alienate the few Americans on this forum, you got your wish.

Stop taking yourself too seriously.

Nobody else does. ;)

And no need to wear you identity on the sleeves all the time. Trying too hard doesn't really work.

You are not here to debate the issue but only to make a 'drive-by' and a pathetic one at that. Your India have no values worth exporting and you know it. The US and Americans are not perfect but at least our values are high enough to force Americans to constantly reevaluate themselves as a people. If and when we fail, then we know that those values are worth telling the world about and let them do with it whatever they want. We say 'All are created equal.' What does your India say ? You think your respect are desirable by me ? Think again.

I don't think you have shown yourself capable of having this discussion. Not so far anyway.

If all that you know about India is the caste system (it is like reducing all of America to slavery as an example), it is you who needs to learn. I will be happy to teach you but only if you ask nicely and humbly.

Anyway, the impact of India on all the world's sciences, mathematics, philosophy, religions... any field of human endeavor is there for all to see and learn about. You just need to start by reading a good book.

So YOU bugger off and go back to whatever hovel you got in India and enjoy or wallow in misery in whatever caste you are borned into. I am a free man in ways you can only imagine. You got nothing the countries of the world want to import into their societies.

You are a prisoner of your own rhetoric. That makes you incapable of being a free man.

My contempt for you is not because of your origin or your country. I won't extend that to Vietnam or the USA or Americans in general.

It is because of your extreme shallowness and pettiness as a human being.

And the huge chip on the shoulders that you carry.

Now, may I request you to please bugger off and not bother me unless you have something substantial to say?
 
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I'm quite surprised that US government marked India as a democracy.

For a start, we are not threatened with being "scraped in the womb" for the crime of being second in line!

We all know China's human rights status is not good enough, but hey, at least here in China no one is called 'untouchable' or even 'slave'.

Does 'uncooked barbarian' count? ;)
 
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I'm quite surprised that US government marked India as a democracy. We all know China's human rights status is not good enough, but hey, at least here in China no one is called 'untouchable' or even 'slave'.

We are democracy because the same slaves and untouchables decides the fate of the country. They have the say even though they are "slave" unlike chinese "masters" even those cant decide.
 
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Imagine a handyman hired to renovate a house.

During the projects that spread over days, every time the owner was out of the house, the handyman rifled through the owner's closets and desk, go through his computer, and found out the owner was stealing from his employer, embezzled his clients and even from the local hospital. The handyman then decide to expose the man to the police.

Would anyone hire this handyman later ? Not likely. Secrets by themselves do not harm anyone and honest people have their secrets that they guard as fiercely as crooks and governments guards their secrets. So once it comes out that this handyman was able to expose a criminal among the people, everyone will know that this was possible only if the handyman committed at least an immoral, if not illegal act, and that while the people are glad that a criminal is out of their immediate neighborhood, they would not want a criminal working in their homes, no matter how much they may applaud the handyman in public for what he did.

The point is that Edward Snowden knew exactly what he did was beyond immoral but criminal.

Snowden was NOT an NSA employee. He worked for the NSA via Booz Allen Hamilton, a contractor of various services to the government. Snowden was a technical specialist: an administrator of various computer systems. Snowden did not perform any 'NSA stuff'. Rather, as a contractor, he maintains the computer hardware so that NSA employees can do their 'NSA stuff', the activities that gather strategic intelligence for US political leadership. At best, Snowden probably had better than average knowledge and educated guesses on those 'NSA stuff' than the average American. As a computer systems administrator, Snowden had high permission level to access deep layers of computer systems and data storage systems in order to do his daily duties efficiently, but that does not mean he was any kind of intelligence gatherer, analyst, or decision maker.

This is why Snowden had to deceive those who do perform top secret 'NSA stuff' to allow him access to their data. This fact about Snowden is usually glossed over by mainstream news and unknown to those who would beatify Snowden, not because they have any respect for the US Constitution, as if they have any serious knowledge and understanding of the US Constitution in the first place, but for spite of the US.

This is why Snowden had to hide behind the whistleblower label and the public distaste for the what and the how the NSA had gone too far, the same way the nosy handyman had to hide behind the atrocious crimes of the house owner to distract attention to his own violation of trust, a trust that is expected and always manifest between client and provider of services. Snowden probably knew that what he did was criminal enough to put him in prison despite any good that may arise out of the NSA exposure and possibly that understanding came from legal consultants. What a story that would be, that Snowden consulted a legal team and they told him -- no dice.

Past NSA whistleblowers, to the best of public information, did not deceive their coworkers to gain information. They observed and record what they personally saw and experienced, then they followed the chain of command like they were supposed to. Yes, their lives deteriorated because the organization went after them, as expected of any large organization with a reputation to protect and a sense of self preservation, but at least those whistleblowers can live with the honor that they did not take national secrets to the enemies.

Snowden does not need to deceive NSA employees to expose the 'NSA stuff' that so offends everyone after the fact. Neither Russia nor China need to serve as conduit for Snowden's slow releases of those 'NSA stuff'. The New York Times or The Atlantic or any major newspaper will gladly be his mouthpiece.

This is why unlike past NSA whistleblowers, like Thomas Drake, there is a fierce divide among legal experts and moralists on whether Snowden is a genuine whistleblower who did the country good, or an egotistical fool too deluded to recognize his treason.
 
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