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France's Beef With Islam

I think we are meandering around meaninglessly. So I'll break it down:

The Muslims in France are the minority group. If they wish to co-exist peacefully in France, they will have to make themselves be counted, their voices heard, & even compromise on some levels. Every minority in the world regardless of religion has to do that if it wishes to co-exist peacefully with a bigoted majority.

So you are saying that all French Muslims are extremists? :blink:

I am concerned about the rising wave of radicalism (as a source of rebellion & protest against perceived injustices, politically driven as well) in the West from the Muslim communities, & feel this will further alienate them & be detrimental for their future in their country.

Can you provide empirical evidence that there is a rising tide of Muslim extremism in Western societies? Yes, that is specifically in Western societies. Especially if it is violent.

I don't see any. And at best, probably some armchair warriors like Anjem Choudry.

Someone has to make a compromise if hostilities exist between two groups, & if the majority (more powerful) group is acting hostile, the minority will have to make certain compromises, if it wishes to co-exist peacefully with the majority group in that country.

That's common sense.
 
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So you are saying that all French Muslims are extremists? :blink:

No, I am saying there is a rising wave of radicalism in Europe in the Muslim communities, & it is evident to anyone that has visited that part of the world. I did not imply that all French Muslims, or even the majority are extremists. But the few bad apples (who are unfortunately increasing in number) give the majority & Islam a bad name. Bigotry against Muslims in the West is further alienating them & driving them away, this is not good for the Muslims or the countries they live in. Lose-lose situation for everyone.
 
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No, I am saying there is a rising wave of radicalism in Europe in the Muslim communities, & it is evident to anyone that has visited that part of the world. I did not imply that all French Muslims, or even the majority are extremists. But the few bad apples (who are unfortunately increasing in number) give the majority & Islam a bad name. Bigotry against Muslims in the West is further alienating them & driving them away, this is not good for the Muslims or the countries they live in. Lose-lose situation for everyone.

Again, I ask you for empirical evidence that the number of extremists in the West are rising. Not based on mere hearsay.

Question: Have you ever actually lived in Europe? I have for 7 years in both the Netherlands and the UK. Never really saw or experienced any serious problem.

Whatever is going on in France is politics. They condemn Halal and Kosher while at the same time make money out of the markets :lol:

Hell, I think it's fun.
 
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Again, I ask you for empirical evidence that the number of extremists in the West are rising. Not based on mere hearsay.

Question: Have you ever actually lived in Europe? I have for 7 years in both the Netherlands and the UK. Never really saw or experienced any serious problem.

Whatever is going on in France is politics. They condemn Halal and Kosher while at the same time make money out of the markets :lol:

Hell, I think it's fun.

If you've lived in the UK, while you might not have seen militancy with your own eyes, it's pretty obvious to anyone who's been there that the youth are much more radicalized (this has a political dimension) & disillusioned with the country's policies, & there is much more of a growing "Islamic" threat in the UK. Just look at the number of British Muslims arrested from their country & elsewhere in the world.
 
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If you've lived in the UK, while you might not have seen militancy with your own eyes, it's pretty obvious to anyone who's been there that the youth are much more radicalized (this has a political dimension) & disillusioned with the country's policies, & there is much more of a growing "Islamic" threat in the UK. Just look at the number of British Muslims arrested from their country & elsewhere in the world.

Like what? Poppy burning? :lol:
'Muslims Against Crusades' protesters arrested outside U.S. embassy in London | Mail Online

Most of them are silly teenagers doing silly things.

They'll face the law if they do something unlawful. And no country is as law abiding and systematic as the UK. This isn't just my opinion but a fact.

Again, where is your empirical evidence that Muslim extremists are rising in the West? :rolleyes:
 
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While I agree that the Muslims have come under the microscope in the West for everything they do, the fact that the international media only shows "Muslim terror" all over the world in the news everyday, coupled with quite a few bad apples; those are the root causes of the problems Muslims face in non-Muslim societies.
 
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Even moderate Muslim countries like Malaysia, Indonesia etc; & non-Muslim countries that have nothing to do with the WOT (Philippines, Thailand, China) are facing militancy from Muslim insurgents. Even Central Asian countries like Azerbaijan, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan etc; are facing the same threat. And Western non-Muslim countries are also seeing the rise of radicalism. Why do Muslims have to act as mercenaries in other countries, serving the interests of others?



Muslims need strong representation from within if they wish to improve their perception.

These are sweeping comments you are making without anything to back it.
 
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While I agree that the Muslims have come under the microscope in the West for everything they do, the fact that the international media only shows "Muslim terror" all over the world in the news everyday, coupled with quite a few bad apples; those are the root causes of the problems Muslims face in non-Muslim societies.

What is the International media ? Are you referring to media such as NYTimes, BBC, CNN ?
 
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These are sweeping comments you are making without anything to back it.

It is known fact that various Muslim insurgent groups are wreaking havoc in the former Soviet Union states, & there are Muslim insurgent fighters engaged against Thailand, Myanmar, Philippines etc. These are known facts, not any sweeping generalizations.

For some reason, certain Muslim people across the globe make the perfect mercenaries, aiding foreign powers with great strategic geopolitical ambitions to advance their goals.
 
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By the way, I am a fully practicing Muslim, I have respect for my peaceful Sunni brothers (& hate divisive Shias). I respect anyone that has the benefit of Pakistan at heart. But having traveled extensively throughout, I feel saddened that every Muslim society is associated with suppression, backwardness, conflict, chauvinism, illiteracy, lack of humanity. Furthermore, we Muslims don't even have any respect for our fellow Muslims (forget about non-Muslims), & are divisive, rather than thinking about the greater good of the nation we live in & its people. We are not willing to compromise on our position for the greater good of society.
 
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We cannot use the excuse of the WOT for militancy. Certain Muslim insurgents are active against governments of nations that are not even involved in the WOT. The Western powers have occupied & balkanized non-Muslim nations over the course of history as well, but what is happening in the Muslim world today is unprecedented. In the Arab Spring for example, Muslim insurgents were perfectly aligned with the West's geopolitical strategic interests, & helped advancing them in the region. The same can be argued in Central Asia, Africa & even the Asia Pacific to an extent. Conclusion: certain Muslims just make the perfect mercenaries.
 
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It is known fact that various Muslim insurgent groups are wreaking havoc in the former Soviet Union states, & there are Muslim insurgent fighters engaged against Thailand, Myanmar, Philippines etc. These are known facts, not any sweeping generalizations.

For some reason, certain Muslim people across the globe make the perfect mercenaries, aiding foreign powers with great strategic geopolitical ambitions to advance their goals.

Thailand:

Identity of insurgency

A resurgence in violence by Pattani guerrilla groups began in 2001. The identity of the actors pushing conflict remains mostly obscure. Many local and regional experts have implicated the region's traditional separatist groups, such as PULO, BRN and GMIP, and particularly the BRN-Coordinate (a faction of BRN) and its alleged armed wing the Ronda Kumpulan Kecil (RKK).[13] Others suggested the violence occurred under the influence of foreign Islamist groups such as al-Qaeda and Jemaah Islamiyah, but since their modus operandi – attacking army depots and schools – is not a similar MO to other groups attacking Western targets, most view the connections as weak.[14]

Some reports suggest that a number of Pattani Muslims have received training at al-Qaeda centres in Pakistan, though many experts believe, to the contrary, that the Pattani guerrilla movements have little or nothing to do with global jihadism. Others have claimed that the insurgents have forged links with groups such as the religious-nationalist Moro Islamic Liberation Front in the Philippines and the quasi-secular Free Aceh Movement (GAM) in Indonesia.

At first, the government blamed the attacks on "bandits," and indeed many outside observers believed that local clan, commercial or criminal rivalries did play some part in the violence in the region. In July 2002, after some 14 policemen died in separate attacks over span of seven months, Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra publicly denied the role of religion in the attacks, and was quoted as saying he did not "think religion was the cause of the problems down there because several of the policemen killed were Muslim".[15] Interior Minister Purachai Piemsomboon attributed the attacks on the police to the issue of drug control, as the "police are making serious efforts to make arrests over drugs trafficking."
Thailand

This article is part of the series:

In 2002, Shinawatra stated, "There's no separatism, no ideological terrorists, just common bandits." By 2004 he had reversed his position, and has come to regard the insurgency as a local front in the global War on Terrorism. Martial law was instituted in Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat in January 2004.[16]

In 2005, Bangkok Senator Sophon Supapong accused the United States of being the mastermind behind bombings in Hat Yai. His accusations were seconded by Perayot Rahimmula, Democratic MP and professor at Prince of Songkhla University (Pattani campus), though they could provide no convincing evidence to back up their accusation.[17]

In 2006, Thai Army Chief Sonthi Boonyaratglin, himself a Muslim, suggested that former communist insurgents might be playing a role in the unrest.[18] However, this is unlikely in that many former communists were incorporated into the Thai Rak Thai Party and hence would have provided other communists with a voice. Governors of the southern provinces showed some skepticism over his suggestion, but investigated the connection.

South Thailand insurgency - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Myanmar:

I am not aware of any such issue in Myanmar. I know the Burmese junta routinely killed and tortured the Rohinga population. There are tens of thousands of these refugees in BD.

Philippines:

The Moro Rebellion is more than 100 year old issue in Philippines. Its more of a local issue.


As far as Muslim mercenary goes, never heard of them. Mercenaries are guns for hire, they don't have a religion.



BTW you are still the good ol Billalhaider ? Just thinking out loud.
 
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Once these westerners succeed in commercial synthesis of protein economically, they would simply impose sanctions on countries that kill animals for meat.
 
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