France starts ban on full-face veil

[53fd]

Interesting debate:

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

the problem is not the confusion of westernism or modernism..they both shouldnt be regarded as Gods..thats the problem of modernism..it claims that it destroys the domination of religions but it creates its own domination on people.

actually what i am saying is peoples don't need to adopt western culture to prove that they are modern individuals. You can be modern by following any culture exist on this planet

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Then learn to respect other people`s opinions especially when they are not comfortable in your world where China doesn`t persecute Muslims in China.

There is no such persecution in China.

The riots in Xinjiang were "ethnic riots"... it had nothing to do with religion. They were ethnic riots, and the vast majority of casualties were Han Chinese.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Hui Rebellion in Gansu and Shaanxi 1862-1877

Throughout the 270 years of Qing dynasty history, the development of Hui people in Shaanxi province had been through a huge up and down process. At the beginning of Qing, the Hui population totaled about 845,000; it increased to 1,700,000 within 200 years. (Another source is from the Qing Government's population records and Zuo Zhongtang's written records which showed there were 13 million people including 4 million Muslims in Shanxi province prior to the revolt) But because of the Hui Rebellion in Gansu and Shaanxi during Tongzhi's reign, the total loss to the Shaanxi Hui people was as high as 1,550,000, the Hui population was reduced to 150,000 at the end of the war, over 91% of the Hui people vanished.

During the war, the loss to the Han Chinese population was much higher (the translation in the original Chinese textbook did not indicate a total number, however, Zuo Zhongtang estimated that 4 millions Muslims in Shanxi Province were wiped out - this is also hinted in Zuo ZhongTang's written record that he felt deeply sad and sorry that ethnic genocide occurred in Shanxi and that Muslim population suffered annihilation), but relatively speaking, because the percentage of Hui's population loss was so high(91%), the whole population was nearly wiped out, they were put near the edge of extinction[citation needed]. Before the war, many provinces had Hui people living quarters; none could be seen at the end of the war...Shaanxi province's ethnic composition was changed drastically (by the war)....in China's fourth National Census in the 1990s, there were only 132,000 Hui Chinese in Shaanxi province. End of translation. Original Chinese text is on the talk page.[36]

Another Wikipedia source, no credibility at all.

Zuo ZhongTang mostly killed those rebellions because of their separatist movement, not because of their religion, and this order was given by the Manchu government. It has nothing to do with the Han Chinese. In fact, Han Chinese becomes the scapegoats and got retaliated by the rebellions because the order given by the Qing Dynasty.

 

[ephone]

So far, I still consider you are a moderate muslim since your post indeed has broad understanding of the issues in discussion. If most members here are just so easily to get agitated when others offer their criticism against certain bad practices in muslim community/countries, they should stop lecturing me or anyone about "tolerance" in islam society.

No, I'm a very moderate Muslim, as is my family. We pray 5 times a day, don't drink alcohol or eat 'Haram' food. My mom covers her head, but my sister doesn't. However, my sister dresses very modestly, & she covers her body 'fully' (legs, arms). My sister & I do not get into premarital relationships (as we aren't allowed to as per our religion), & we respect the people (elders especially) in our lives & try to form good relations with everyone we know in our lives. My sister is independent, goes to work & has a good job. And that's pretty much the same for me. We love our family, our relatives, our friends, everyone around us. We try to get along well with everyone. We read the Quran regularly, & try to understand it well. We are not disinclined to religion in any way. I think some people tend to become overzealous in their beliefs to a point where their beliefs aren't in line with that particular belief system anymore.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

As well as for the main topic, burqa ban, well, with your shallow minds, would those islam males peacefully let their females go freely if they refuse to wear burqa or certain members choose to become apostate???

Sure dont you see not all muslim women are wearing burqa or hijab in pakistan.Your problem is you have preconceived ideas about islam which you are not willing to change even when peoples are trying hard to make you understand

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Do you know why I take it off? It seems so many members here initiate attacks on me simply because I have criticized several brutal and ugly practices in muslim countries.

Then I am labeled as someone who is anti-islam, islamophobia, pathological liar and the list goes on and on...

Talking about tolerance in islam? What tolerance? You cannot even allow criticism and accuse others' criticism as insult.

As well as for the main topic, burqa ban, well, with your shallow minds, would those islam males peacefully let their females go freely if they refuse to wear burqa or certain members choose to become apostate???

Coming to a Pakistani defence forum, assigning yourself a Chinese flag, and then attacking Islam?

China's most important ally is a Muslim nation, i.e. Pakistan. As I'm sure you already know.

 

[ovarel]

I support the French move on this one. Take that thing off or go to prison.

lol and this iphone talking about women rights..imprisoning is not enough,the women that wear those terrible clothes should be killed.

 

[malllawcha]

english wiki basically says chinese is responsible, hui people were in passive position, while chinese wiki state clearly what qing army have done is a response, kind of revenge of hui people, they start massacre on han chinese first.

Zuo ZhongTang is han, his army is formed by han too. central government is weak at that period, if this(the massacre) is a fault, Qing Manchu central government wouldnt be the only one to be blamed.

 

[ephone]

Each country has its laws. When you are in France, follow France's Laws. Sarkozy cannot change or add Laws if there is no broad support even though he is the president of France.

French people have said loud and clear about the ban. Do not like it??? Get out and go home.

Dude, if you don't like the Muslims, then just stay away from them.

And no one is forcing you to interact with them.

And it is up to them to keep their own custom, we have really no business to do here.

Why can't you just leave them alone?

 

[ephone]

lol and this iphone talking about women rights..imprisoning is not enough,the women that wear those terrible clothes should be killed.

What a mindless nut!!! I said "take that thing off or go to prison".

Where did I say "killed"???

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Coming to a Pakistani defence forum, assigning yourself a Chinese flag, and then attacking Islam?

China's most important ally is a Muslim nation, i.e. Pakistan. As I'm sure you already know.

I don't mind constructive criticism of non muslim on islam if they are willing to learn something about Islam but its sad when some non muslim try to teach islam to muslims without even knowing islam lol

as far this Ephone concern he need to learn how to raise question in polite manner. He was calling practices of islam as disgusting which show negativity exist in his mind. Why so much poison for islam when you dont even know about islam. Peoples should not learn islam from western media

 

[ephone]

Coming to a Pakistani defence forum, assigning yourself a Chinese flag, and then attacking Islam?

China's most important ally is a Muslim nation, i.e. Pakistan. As I'm sure you already know.

Why don't you list what my attacks are??? List here.

Think again whether those are just criticisms or baseless attacks!!!

 

[53fd]

If you don't want to show your face or who you are in public (wearing a niqab), you should probably just stay at home. Women who's faces can't be seen by others cannot be identified by other people, hence can't do regular everyday activities in public. Home is the best place for such people.

 

[ovarel]

What a mindless nut!!! I said "take that thing off or go to prison".

Where did I say "killed"???

hmm ok then..my fault

---------- Post added at 04:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:16 AM ----------

Each country has its laws. When you are in France, follow France's Laws. Sarkozy cannot change or add Laws if there is no broad support even though he is the president of France.

French people have said loud and clear about the ban. Do not like it??? Get out and go home.

then,are you the spokesperson of french community?who the hell are you seriously?burqa-wearing women have a right to protest it..if their protest is democratic,then who are you to say anything..why does it bother you so much?