France refuses to budge on IAF specifications for Rafale

[samlove]

The ongoing negotiations with France to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets has hit an air-pocket with the French negotiators refusing to accept changed technical specifications from the Indian Air Force (IAF) for integrating the indigenous Astra missile to the French platform.

The IAF wants certain changes in the platform configuration to integrate the DRDO-made air-to-air, beyond-visual-range Astra missile, which was successfully test-fired from a Su-30 MKI aircraft. The missile was tested twice on consecutive days in March.

Following the success, IAF wants modification and reconfiguration of some of the avionics and weapon systems to keep an window open for integration of Astra at a later date.

The French side objected to the idea because a change in the configuration means going through the aircraft certification process once again, which would lead to an increase in cost. Instead, Paris wants to supply its own air-to-air missiles, which New Delhi will have to purchase additionally.

Another sticky point in the negotiation is the offset clause, under which Rafale manufacturer Dassault Aviation would have to reinvest a part of the money it would earn from India after selling the Rafale jets, in Indian military industry.

The defence ministry constituted a committee headed by Air Marshal SBP Sinha to negotiate with the French team that offered the jets almost at the same price as was being discussed in the previous global tender process, which has been scrapped by the Narendra Modi government.

During his April visit to Paris, Modi made an announcement to buy 36 Rafale aircraft from France in a government-to-government contract. The previous process to buy 126 fighter jets to replace the ageing MiG-21s, was abandoned.

French defence minister Jean-Yves Le Drian met his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar in Delhi in May to work out the details of the acquisition plan in a time bound manner. The two sides decided to complete the price negotiation by July 31, but then the deal encountered rough weather. There was no meeting between the two sides in the recent past, which may be an indication of the stalemate.

“The benchmark for the prices are already there since the (French) deal with Egypt and Qatar has been struck. The price of the aircraft to India cannot be less than what the other two countries have bought it for,” sources said.

Defence Ministry officials still hope to conclude the deal at a price, which could be just 2-3 per cent per cent more that what was being discussed between the two sides in the earlier process.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

We must quickly take a decision one way or the other

It is a very good thing that Rafale has gained Two export orders

SO IAF will have to wait in the queue

The more time we waste ; the queue will get longer

Just decide quickly

 

[samlove]

We must quickly take a decision one way or the other

It is a very good thing that Rafale has gained Two export orders

SO IAF will have to wait in the queue

The more time we waste ; the queue will get longer

Just decide quickly

if they are not makong any headways then , dont need to keep on negotiating we can look for some other fighter its not like tht the only one left in the world

 

[third eye]

if they are not makong any headways then , dont need to keep on negotiating we can look for some other fighter its not like tht the only one left in the world

This is the usual way deals are worked out - hard bargaining on both sides.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

if they are not makong any headways then , dont need to keep on negotiating we can look for some other fighter its not like tht the only one left in the world

Yes that is what is now required

This is the usual way deals are worked out - hard bargaining on both sides.

But for HOW long

Here I am reminded of the INS VIKRAMADITYA story

When the Russians told us that we will take this Aircraft carrier and give your money back to you
Indian government quickly accepted the deal

When you dont have a choice you have to pay

 

[third eye]

But for HOW long

No rush at all, deal with such large sums of money do take long - even in the corporate world.

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

Rafale French knew longer they delay more bargain chips falls in Indian sides . They managed to fool MMRCA and became lowest bidder which is a huge lie . Now they back track on offset commitment .look what happened ? We went for of the shelve order for 36 . That's what pressure can do . Rafale can wait for another 2 years of negotiations can India ?

Either go with EF or Su35s . Both have very good BVR as Su35 will be further enhanced with stealth features if git selected ! .

 

[Beast]

Rafale French knew longer they delay more bargain chips falls in Indian sides . They managed to fool MMRCA and became lowest bidder which is a huge lie . Now they back track on offset commitment .look what happened ? We went for of the shelve order for 36 . That's what pressure can do . Rafale can wait for another 2 years of negotiations can India ?

Either go with EF or Su35s . Both have very good BVR as Su35 will be further enhanced with stealth features if git selected ! .

French is not afraid of cost. They have more pride than money. Look at the mistral deal with Russian. I advise indian to eat humble pie if they want Rafale deal.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Stop nagging and just take the deal.Either that or drop it altogether.Don't understand why you need astra on rafale,get meteor instead ffs.Keep astra for mki and lca.

 

[MastanKhan]

This is the usual way deals are worked out - hard bargaining on both sides.

Hi,

No they are not---specially with old partners----. French are not bad to deal with.

This deal should have been very smooth---accept that the indian got very arrogant with their demands----.

This is my analysis----no reason to get angry at me.

 

[third eye]

Hi,

No they are not---specially with old partners----. French are not bad to deal with.

This deal should have been very smooth---accept that the indian got very arrogant with their demands----.

This is my analysis----no reason to get angry at me.

No reason to get angry.

Its a buyers market in such weapons & the buyer is well withing his rights to get the most for each Dollar.

If its an Asian buyer - the seller should expect more than the most !

To see this live , accompany your wife/mother/ sister to the market !!!

 

[IndoUS]

French is not afraid of cost. They have more pride than money. Look at the mistral deal with Russian. I advise indian to eat humble pie if they want Rafale deal.

Not quite since some countries have shown interest for mistral the cost would be some what mitigated but not completely covered since they still have to pay Russia for the expenses of training and other infra. cost. But for Rafale they have no buyers and France is finding it hard to sell the aircraft to other nations. Either France buckles or they lose the future follow on order which would probably work in Russia favor since they are much more open in allowing other nation's weapons and avionics.

 

[samlove]

No rush at all, deal with such large sums of money do take long - even in the corporate world.

its dont think a corporate deal its between our govt and tht company , also its about our defence preparation , if our pm has provided them some leverage then they should respond in same way, if they are showing arrogance now then say gud bye , there would be a long list of other company at ur door

 

[GURU DUTT]

The ongoing negotiations with France to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets has hit an air-pocket with the French negotiators refusing to accept changed technical specifications from the Indian Air Force (IAF) for integrating the indigenous Astra missile to the French platform.

The IAF wants certain changes in the platform configuration to integrate the DRDO-made air-to-air, beyond-visual-range Astra missile, which was successfully test-fired from a Su-30 MKI aircraft. The missile was tested twice on consecutive days in March.

Following the success, IAF wants modification and reconfiguration of some of the avionics and weapon systems to keep an window open for integration of Astra at a later date.

The French side objected to the idea because a change in the configuration means going through the aircraft certification process once again, which would lead to an increase in cost. Instead, Paris wants to supply its own air-to-air missiles, which New Delhi will have to purchase additionally.

Another sticky point in the negotiation is the offset clause, under which Rafale manufacturer Dassault Aviation would have to reinvest a part of the money it would earn from India after selling the Rafale jets, in Indian military industry.

The defence ministry constituted a committee headed by Air Marshal SBP Sinha to negotiate with the French team that offered the jets almost at the same price as was being discussed in the previous global tender process, which has been scrapped by the Narendra Modi government.

During his April visit to Paris, Modi made an announcement to buy 36 Rafale aircraft from France in a government-to-government contract. The previous process to buy 126 fighter jets to replace the ageing MiG-21s, was abandoned.

French defence minister Jean-Yves Le Drian met his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar in Delhi in May to work out the details of the acquisition plan in a time bound manner. The two sides decided to complete the price negotiation by July 31, but then the deal encountered rough weather. There was no meeting between the two sides in the recent past, which may be an indication of the stalemate.

“The benchmark for the prices are already there since the (French) deal with Egypt and Qatar has been struck. The price of the aircraft to India cannot be less than what the other two countries have bought it for,” sources said.

Defence Ministry officials still hope to conclude the deal at a price, which could be just 2-3 per cent per cent more that what was being discussed between the two sides in the earlier process.

i have a feeling that in this aspect frenchies are right

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

if they are not makong any headways then , dont need to keep on negotiating we can look for some other fighter its not like tht the only one left in the world

what makes you think other country'(s) manufactures wont do the same thing? The Americans in fairness made the most concessions which even then the overly argumentative, non-suave, non charismatic and non-slick indian negotiators who come dimes a dozen (no offense, just being very honest here - i've spoken to people about this MANY times) turned blind eye.

i sense this big MRCA deal is going to face a 7-10 year snag...many indian deals do