France refuses to budge on IAF specifications for Rafale

[qamar1990]

If you have lemons at home u would prefer to make home made lemonade instead of buying from outside.

Here the glass is made in France but since we have grown our own lemon tree we are insisting on squeezing those lemons and make home made lemonade served in foreign glass ............chilled. Cost effectiveness. Ready availability.

Got the point?

i would buy lemonade from the store because its better. homemade lemons in your case would probably even have enough juice.

 

[Dr Gupta]

i would buy lemonade from the store because its better. homemade lemons in your case would probably even have enough juice.

Astra is a fine missle it has already been tested and performed very well.

i would buy lemonade from the store because its better. homemade lemons in your case would probably even have enough juice.

See you should try developing your own if you can

DRDO makes progress with more Astra BVRAAM tests - IHS Jane's 360

Astra project director S Venugopal said these test firings - the missile's fourth and fifth -- were "perfect in all respects and engaged the target with precision".
"More tests will follow," he added.

France wants India to buy their missiles as it means more revenue for them but why should we waste money? makes no business sense.

 

[qamar1990]

Astra is a fine missle it has already been tested and performed very well.




See you should try developing your own if you can

DRDO makes progress with more Astra BVRAAM tests - IHS Jane's 360

Astra project director S Venugopal said these test firings - the missile's fourth and fifth -- were "perfect in all respects and engaged the target with precision".
"More tests will follow," he added.

France wants India to buy their missiles as it means more revenue for them but why should we waste money? makes no business sense.

we dont need beyond visual range missiles becuase we not cowards.... we face our enemy and kill em.

 

[Dr Gupta]

we dont need beyond visual range missiles becuase we not cowards.... we face our enemy and kill em.

You sound like a stupid kid

we dont need beyond visual range missiles becuase we not cowards.... we face our enemy and kill em.

Interesting as you ordered over 600 such missiles from China lol

 

[Basel]

The ongoing negotiations with France to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets has hit an air-pocket with the French negotiators refusing to accept changed technical specifications from the Indian Air Force (IAF) for integrating the indigenous Astra missile to the French platform.

The IAF wants certain changes in the platform configuration to integrate the DRDO-made air-to-air, beyond-visual-range Astra missile, which was successfully test-fired from a Su-30 MKI aircraft. The missile was tested twice on consecutive days in March.

Following the success, IAF wants modification and reconfiguration of some of the avionics and weapon systems to keep an window open for integration of Astra at a later date.

The French side objected to the idea because a change in the configuration means going through the aircraft certification process once again, which would lead to an increase in cost. Instead, Paris wants to supply its own air-to-air missiles, which New Delhi will have to purchase additionally.

Another sticky point in the negotiation is the offset clause, under which Rafale manufacturer Dassault Aviation would have to reinvest a part of the money it would earn from India after selling the Rafale jets, in Indian military industry.

The defence ministry constituted a committee headed by Air Marshal SBP Sinha to negotiate with the French team that offered the jets almost at the same price as was being discussed in the previous global tender process, which has been scrapped by the Narendra Modi government.

During his April visit to Paris, Modi made an announcement to buy 36 Rafale aircraft from France in a government-to-government contract. The previous process to buy 126 fighter jets to replace the ageing MiG-21s, was abandoned.

French defence minister Jean-Yves Le Drian met his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar in Delhi in May to work out the details of the acquisition plan in a time bound manner. The two sides decided to complete the price negotiation by July 31, but then the deal encountered rough weather. There was no meeting between the two sides in the recent past, which may be an indication of the stalemate.

“The benchmark for the prices are already there since the (French) deal with Egypt and Qatar has been struck. The price of the aircraft to India cannot be less than what the other two countries have bought it for,” sources said.

Defence Ministry officials still hope to conclude the deal at a price, which could be just 2-3 per cent per cent more that what was being discussed between the two sides in the earlier process.

Why France can't sell those with open architecture systems to buyers?

 

[Dr Gupta]

Why France can't sell those with open architecture systems to buyers?

They can but they want more revenue hence why they want us to procure their missiles! this is business

 

[SpArK]

No, did not get the point, because it is beyond stupid.

You want to develop local lemonade, that is fine. You can do it in a Joint venture and ask the partners to transfer skill and knowledge.

But the whole point of your MMRCA was to purchase the product as it is off the shelf because it is already available. So no time should be lost in harvesting and squeezing the lemons. The idea was since India would order 126 (and many ignorant fools thought it would order a follow up 72 more), it makes sense to ask the supplier to 'assemble' some of them in India.

The assembly part is where Indians messed up. Demanding that French be responsible for the quality of product assembled in India by an Indian firm. That's not how business is done, and that is not how it is done in the west. Either you let them do the full job and accept the product liability or you do it yourself and take responsibility.

When the original MMRCA deal was lost, and only 36 ordered, tell me why would the supplier offer the same deal when YOU yourself are unable to stick to your original tender of 126?

So basically, you are trying hard to squeeze lemons that aren't there.

Haha

I thought we were talking about a single item... a single missile integration and you wrote a whole loong story about MMRCA ,

The point is specific , like if Pakistan develops own BVR missile and wants to integrate to F-16 for instance.

I thought you actually talked sense mostly.

The quality of missile or superior product from Rafale stable is not a point since we had big experience other nation weapons and avionics in Russian fighters.


Unbelievable. ! Cant believe i actually quoted you after the above reply.

 

[qamar1990]

You sound like a stupid kid




Interesting as you ordered over 600 such missiles from China lol

you are so so so stupid.

 

[Dr Gupta]

you are so so so stupid.

Please just go away you sound ridiculous

 

[ravindra1455]

we dont need beyond visual range missiles becuase we not cowards.... we face our enemy and kill em.

lol

 

[Dr Gupta]

lol

He is crazy lol

 

[Donatello]

Haha

I thought we were talking about a single item... a single missile integration and you wrote a whole loong story about MMRCA ,

The point is specific , like if Pakistan develops own BVR missile and wants to integrate to F-16 for instance.

I thought you actually talked sense mostly.

The quality of missile or superior product from Rafale stable is not a point since we had big experience other nation weapons and avionics in Russian fighters.


Unbelievable. ! Cant believe i actually quoted you after the above reply.

Yea, you had such an awesome experience with Russian fighters......then WHY THE HECK even consider the Euro canards? Why not get the Mig35 for the medium role? I am sure you will get a lot of your own 'specs' and configurations done easily with the Russians.

It is not about Integration of a missile, it is about India not being able to come up with a plan that what does it actually want?

As usual, when nothing of substance to add, drag Pakistan in. But since you did, PAF is more than happy with AIM120 that covers the entire F-16 fleet. PAF has got the Chinese SD10A/B for the JF-17s. So we've already got two very potent missiles. Why the heck would we ever force Americans to integrate something of our own where it is not needed or required? This is the difference b/w Pakistan military procurement and Indian one, my ignorant friend.
Pakistan gets what it wants based on it's needs.
India seems to be stuck with the 'Make In India' bullshyt.

Wars are not fought on the basis of what you used to kill was developed 'indigenously' or not. Weapon is a weapon.

 

[Killswitch]

Honestly, I think the French are not worth Indias time anymore.

Build LCAs and SU 30's.

Forget the MMRCA and focus on these 2 platforms.

Buy some Sukhois off the shelf from Russia if need be.

At least they are affordable and India can already make almost 80% of the plane in country.

Dassault is being greedy and arrogant. They dont deserve the order.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

India seems to be stuck with the 'Make In India' bullshyt.

We have TWO goals and BOTH are important

1 War fighting capabilities

2 Indigenous production and capabilities

SO we will pursue both ; Till 2010 we only focussed on war fighting capabilties

The focus on domestic manufacturing has started ONLY recently
in the last five years

If you think that LCA and our insistence on Make in India
has weakened the IAF ; you are wrong

 

[Indika]

India seems to be stuck with the 'Make In India' bullshyt.

Yes, any thing less than that is a sellout.