France offers 25% discount to India on purchase of 36 Rafale jets

[Bang Galore]

France offers India 36 Rafale fighter jets for IAF at the same rate as its own air force

Press Trust of India

New Delhi: France is offering India 36 Rafale fighter jets in fly-away condition at the same price which it pays to French defence major Dassault Aviation to equip its own air force, defence sources said.

They added that this means that the cost per aircraft will be much lower than the price that was being worked out under the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, which also involved transfer of technology.

"The price of the aircraft for India will be the same as the price at which it is sold to the French Air Force. This was the case during the deal for Mirage fighters too," sources said.

As per industry experts, the price of a Rafale to French air force works out to anywhere between $200-220 million.

They added that the final pricing will depend on the specific requirements that India seeks from France and how the negotiation goes forward.

The said offer is in keeping with the joint statement issued during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent visit to France where he announced the intention to buy 36 Rafales off the shelf.

"The two leaders (Modi, French President Fracois Hollande) agreed to conclude an inter-governmental agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than what is conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway," the statement had said.

The "separate process" was the MMRCA tender which had been stuck for years over pricing and other issues.

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian had met with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar on Wednesday following which the two sides decided to form special teams that will work in a time-bound manner to conclude negotiations. Defence sources said the teams will work out the finer details of the deal, including the pricing.

They also questioned the possibility whether the deal may have an offset clause, saying it would be difficult if the pricing for Indian aircraft remains the same as that for the French air force.

As per industry experts, the price of a Rafale to French air force works out to anywhere between $200-220 million.

"If we take the lowest value of $200 million, it will work out to around Rs 1,240 crore per aircraft. Even if we increase it to Rs 1,300 crore, it would be a better price than earlier," sources said.

The price per aircraft not only includes its own cost but also that for maintenance, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

Qatar has recently signed a deal worth over $7 billion for 24 Rafale jets. This includes MBDA missiles and the cost for the training of 36 Qatari pilots and 100 technicians. The value of each aircraft thus comes to over $290 million.

Asked if that price would be acceptable to India, the sources said it would have been "very expensive".

Modi has said that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.

France offers India 36 Rafale fighter jets for IAF at the same rate as its own air force - IBNLive

@Abingdonboy, @sancho

 

[thesolar65]

Robin lawley is fat and ugly

I first thanked you, then I googled who Robin Lawley is??

 

[Makaramarma]

France offers India 36 Rafale fighter jets for IAF at the same rate as its own air force

Press Trust of India

New Delhi: France is offering India 36 Rafale fighter jets in fly-away condition at the same price which it pays to French defence major Dassault Aviation to equip its own air force, defence sources said.

They added that this means that the cost per aircraft will be much lower than the price that was being worked out under the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender, which also involved transfer of technology.

"The price of the aircraft for India will be the same as the price at which it is sold to the French Air Force. This was the case during the deal for Mirage fighters too," sources said.

As per industry experts, the price of a Rafale to French air force works out to anywhere between $200-220 million.

They added that the final pricing will depend on the specific requirements that India seeks from France and how the negotiation goes forward.

The said offer is in keeping with the joint statement issued during Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent visit to France where he announced the intention to buy 36 Rafales off the shelf.

"The two leaders (Modi, French President Fracois Hollande) agreed to conclude an inter-governmental agreement for supply of the aircraft on terms that would be better than what is conveyed by Dassault Aviation as part of a separate process underway," the statement had said.

The "separate process" was the MMRCA tender which had been stuck for years over pricing and other issues.

French Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian had met with his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar on Wednesday following which the two sides decided to form special teams that will work in a time-bound manner to conclude negotiations. Defence sources said the teams will work out the finer details of the deal, including the pricing.

They also questioned the possibility whether the deal may have an offset clause, saying it would be difficult if the pricing for Indian aircraft remains the same as that for the French air force.

As per industry experts, the price of a Rafale to French air force works out to anywhere between $200-220 million.

"If we take the lowest value of $200 million, it will work out to around Rs 1,240 crore per aircraft. Even if we increase it to Rs 1,300 crore, it would be a better price than earlier," sources said.

The price per aircraft not only includes its own cost but also that for maintenance, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

Qatar has recently signed a deal worth over $7 billion for 24 Rafale jets. This includes MBDA missiles and the cost for the training of 36 Qatari pilots and 100 technicians. The value of each aircraft thus comes to over $290 million.

Asked if that price would be acceptable to India, the sources said it would have been "very expensive".

Modi has said that the aircraft and associated systems and weapons would be delivered on the same configuration as had been tested and approved by Indian Air Force, and with a longer maintenance responsibility by France.

France offers India 36 Rafale fighter jets for IAF at the same rate as its own air force - IBNLive

@Abingdonboy, @sancho

"They also questioned the possibility whether the deal may have an offset clause, saying it would be difficult if the pricing for Indian aircraft remains the same as that for the French air force."

This is No can do and will kill the deal, AGAIN.

 

[Skull and Bones]

I first thanked you, then I googled who Robin Lawley is??

If you're fan of booty, Tianna Gregory is the shit.

 

[Bang Galore]

"They also questioned the possibility whether the deal may have an offset clause, saying it would be difficult if the pricing for Indian aircraft remains the same as that for the French air force."

This is No can do and will kill the deal, AGAIN.

That makes you wonder how the offsets work, doesn't it? Increase the costs & then offset it against the "offsets"...???

I keep wondering what the thinking was when the Rafale & the EF were shortlisted. A bit like shortlisting the Rolls Royce Ghost after comparing it with a Toyota Corolla and then balking at the price. Imagine 126 of these........

 

[SamantK]

That makes you wonder how the offsets work, doesn't it? Increase the costs & then offset it against the "offsets"...???

I keep wondering what the thinking was when the Rafale & the EF were shortlisted. A bit like shortlisting the Rolls Royce Ghost after comparing it with a Toyota Corolla and then balking at the price. Imagine 126 of these........

What do you think of the overall direction of this deal now?

I think that Parrikar did good to break the logjam cause if Rafale was not to come then any new induction would have been delayed for so long, making it meaningless and that IAF would wait for Tejas Mk 2 with bated breath.

 

[Makaramarma]

That makes you wonder how the offsets work, doesn't it? Increase the costs & then offset it against the "offsets"...???

I keep wondering what the thinking was when the Rafale & the EF were shortlisted. A bit like shortlisting the Rolls Royce Ghost after comparing it with a Toyota Corolla and then balking at the price. Imagine 126 of these........

It shows the immature and short sighted thinking of IAF. But most appalling is the irresponsible planing of the IAF.

IAF does not even pretend to understand Total Cost of Ownership and does not bother to factor in any such practical matters in its planing. The issue is MUCH deeper than just the need for 126 MMRCA. It shows the ROT in the system. To imagine the IAF run by such incompetent authorities gives me the shiver, because it demonstrates lack of Integrity.

In a real war scenario, I fear the IAF will demonstrate similar thinking and just worry about its survival rather than worry about wining the war. The IAF chief betrayed it as much when he said the IAF will fight with whatever it has. As if they were doing us a big favour.

Parrikar seriously need to implement a mature and responsible Chief of Defence Staff and whip these clowns into shape.

 

[Bang Galore]

What do you think of the overall direction of this deal now?

I think that Parrikar did good to break the logjam cause if Rafale was not to come then any new induction would have been delayed for so long, making it meaningless and that IAF would wait for Tejas Mk 2 with bated breath.

I think we have to wait this one out. We are being fed pieces of information, deliberately I assume, to prepare the ground. Earlier Parrikar himself was talking about some Rs.90,000 crores for the whole deal of 126 aircrafts as being unaffordable but now they are talking of an amount just short of Rs.50,000 crores for 36 aircrafts? That for less than 1/3rd of the earlier number?

I think it is best we wait to get an actual figure and when we better understand the contours of whatever deal is struck..

 

[SamantK]

I think we have to wait this one out. We are being fed pieces of information, deliberately I assume, to prepare the ground. Earlier Parrikar himself was talking about some Rs.90,000 crores for the whole deal of 126 aircrafts as being unaffordable but now they are talking of an amount just short of Rs.50,000 crores for 36 aircrafts? That for less than 1/3rd of the earlier number?

I think it is best we wait to get an actual figure and when we better understand the contours of whatever deal is struck..

The DM also mentiones that this will include armaments training and support and an exteneded maintenace period, also a recent article says that France will offer Rafale at the cost what French Forces procure it for so I think it cannot be higher than any estimate done during MMRCA even when looked at cost per piece.

 

[Bang Galore]

The DM also mentiones that this will include armaments training and support and an exteneded maintenace period, also a recent article says that France will offer Rafale at the cost what French Forces procure it for so I think it cannot be higher than any estimate done during MMRCA even when looked at cost per piece.

Yeah, I posted that article but as I said, best to wait & see rather than jump to any firm conclusions.

 

[OrionHunter]

at $200 million it is not cheap

It's exorbitant!! Heck, a state of the art SU-35 costs $65 million a pop! We could have bought 3 SU-35s for the cost of one Rafale! In other words, a hundred SU-35s for the cost of 36 Rafales thus increasing our depleted squadron strength by 5 squadrons!

 

[SamantK]

It's exorbitant!! Heck, a state of the art SU-35 costs $65 million a pop! We could have bought 3 SU-35s for the cost of one Rafale! In other words, a hundred SU-35s for the cost of 36 Rafales thus increasing our depleted squadron strength by 5 squadrons!

thats just a a bare bone fighter without anything else. 200 mill includes the essentials which make it really fight.

 

[OrionHunter]

thats just a a bare bone fighter without anything else. 200 mill includes the essentials which make it really fight.

SU-35 - $65 million. Rafale - $200 million. So you mean $135 million extra per aircraft for weapon systems alone? Are they gonna equip the Rafael with some esoteric weapon systems from Star Wars? Do we know what freebies the Russians would have thrown in too for grabbing the contract? Likely the same for a few dollars more. Probably $100 million per SU fully loaded! It would have still been way cheaper. We have the basic infrastructure too unlike the Rafale. Bottom line: Two SU-35s for the cost of one Rafale!

 

[ZooZoo]

SU-35 - $65 million. Rafale - $200 million. So you mean $135 million extra per aircraft for weapon systems alone? Are they gonna equip the Rafael with some esoteric weapon systems from Star Wars? Do we know what freebies the Russians would have thrown in too for grabbing the contract? Likely the same for a few dollars more. Probably $100 million per SU fully loaded! It would have still been way cheaper. We have the basic infrastructure too unlike the Rafale. Bottom line: Two SU-35s for the cost of one Rafale!

There are many packages...
1. Aircrafy only
2. Aircraft with weapon
3. Aircraft with weapon and lifetime mainitaince cost
4. Aircraft with weapon and lifetime mainitaince cost plus training
5. Aircraft with weapon and lifetime mainitaince cost plus training plus Limited ToT
6. Aircraft with weapon and lifetime mainitaince cost plus training plus Complete ToT




Self explanatory...

The price per aircraft is not just the acquisition cost of the platform, but also includes maintenance facilities, training of pilots and technicians, armaments and spares.

 

[SamantK]

SU-35 - $65 million. Rafale - $200 million. So you mean $135 million extra per aircraft for weapon systems alone? Are they gonna equip the Rafael with some esoteric weapon systems from Star Wars? Do we know what freebies the Russians would have thrown in too for grabbing the contract? Likely the same for a few dollars more. Probably $100 million per SU fully loaded! It would have still been way cheaper. We have the basic infrastructure too unlike the Rafale. Bottom line: Two SU-35s for the cost of one Rafale!

not just weapons, training, infrastructure, spares, supply chain, maintenance are also included and on top of that Rafale is superior to Su-35 in many many areas.