France Gave Advanced Shipbuilding Techniques to Russia Before Mistral Deal Frozen

[Zarvan]

Stephane Mahe / ReutersTwo Mistral-class helicopter carriers Sevastopol (L) and Vladivostok are seen at the STX Les Chantiers de l'Atlantique shipyard site in Saint-Nazaire, western France, May 21, 2015.
France transferred several pieces of advanced technology and know-how to Russian shipbuilders before the Mistral warship deal was put on ice following Western sanctions, a news report said Thursday.

“According to the contract between the Russian Defense Ministry and France's DCNS [shipbuilding company] there are three types of technology that were transferred,” said Alexei Diky, the director of military-industrial cooperation at Russia's massive state-owned United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), RIA Novosti reported.

Under the 1.2 billion euro ($1.4 billion) deal, signed in 2011, France was to build two Mistral-class helicopter assault ships for Russia and transfer shipbuilding expertise to the Russian shipyards involved in the ships' construction.

РЕКЛАМА



It had previously been unclear what exactly was transferred to Russia before France froze the delivery of the ships last year as relations between Russia and the West sank to a post-Soviet nadir over Moscow's annexation of Crimea and support for separatist fighters in east Ukraine.

Diky declined to comment on the first two types of technology transferred, but said that the USC’s Admiralty Shipyards in St. Petersburg received “the technology of large-block assembly used in the construction of the Mistrals.”

Large-block assembly is a shipbuilding process in which parts of a large ship are constructed separately in different places, then erected together in a single dry dock to form the ship's hull. The process is an efficient way of creating large vessels, but is logistically challenging.

The aft section of one of the Mistral carriers was built at USC's Baltic Shipyard in St. Petersburg, near Admiralty Shipyards. France shared the blueprints with the engineering center at Admiralty Shipyards and adapted them to suit the production capabilities of Baltic Shipyard, which had some previous experience with block construction, Diky said.

Though Russian shipyards have previously used block assembly construction, one of the reasons Russia was interested in building part of a Mistral vessel in St. Petersburg was to become acquainted with the more modern techniques employed by the French in block assembly of large carrier-type ships like the Mistrals.

Baltic Shipyard built the aft end of one of the ships under French guidance. The piece was then transported to DCNS's shipyard in Saint-Nazaire to be welded together with the other half.

Experience with large-block assembly could enable Russia to independently construct its own Mistral-type military vessels, or even a very large aircraft carrier, as has recently been discussed in the Russian defense community. The navy is interested in commissioning an aircraft carrier over the coming decades, but Russian yards have no experience building such large military vessels.

France Gave Advanced Shipbuilding Techniques to Russia Before Mistral Deal Frozen | Business | The Moscow Times

 

[C130]

time to break bread with Russia they are better off as an ally or just a distant friend.

Mistrals for Russia and the techniques will nor harm NATO, but help an ally that we will need in the future.

 

[Indian Patriot]

Russians have better weapons and weapons platform than France. Russian SSBNs are the best in the world. Only thyink Russians lack is the finance.

 

[Saleem]

so now the russians can make the latest, most modern triremes?

 

[Gufi]

triremes

seriously man google that word please, those were old age ships just using them and modern together

 

[Taygibay]

Russians have better weapons and weapons platform than France. Russian SSBNs are the best in the world. Only thyink Russians lack is the finance.

What apart from personal preference motivated you to write such an inane post, buddy?

"Russia’s shipbuilding industry has experienced decay for many years due to a lack of investment and the loss of a considerable number of facilities following the end of the Soviet Union."
Russian shipbuilding industry gets a boost with new action plan | thinkRUSSIA

The leader of Russian shipbuilding industry – United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) launches its ambitious program that might return competitiveness to this sector of Russian economy."
Russia plans shipbuilding boost | Barentsobserver

"There was an acute need for the new strategy to solve the many problems of USC and the whole of the Russian shipbuilding industry.

Among the problems are the unprofitability of the majority of the industry’s enterprises (the annual net loss of many of them exceeds 500 million rubles), high level of wear and tear of the infrastructure alongside the low rate of renovation, as well as the imited range of production, of merchant vessels in particular. Other problems experienced in the Russian shipbuilding industry are poor quality standards of the finished products, despite the high cost of construction, which is typically 20% to 50% higher than in overseas yards. Finally, the time between order and delivery of Russian-built is 50% to 100% longer than in foreign yards."
The Motorship - Russia’s shipbuilding reform nears completion

In fact, the shipbuilding situation was so bad that the Mistrals simply could not have been built in Russia which as an Indian concerned by the Gorshkov saga ( not to mention the Talwar class ) you should know about
Whatever You Do, Don’t Buy Your Aircraft Carrier From Russia — War Is Boring — Medium
and that is what prompted the creation of the USC by Putin to fix the problems. Check :
"Modernization of Russian shipbuilding will be realized in partnership with Korea and Singapore.

The leader of Russian shipbuilding industry – United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) launches its ambitious program that might return competitiveness to this sector of Russian economy."
Russia plans shipbuilding boost | Barentsobserver

The Lada class was refused by the Russian Navy for being below requirements and its program re-launched.
ВМФ отказался от новейших подлодок проекта «Лада» - Известия
They're having a very hard time developing an AIP and the nuclear propulsion is non-existent. The only ships the Russians still build are the Kilo subs from USSR era.

Doubts abound on the feasibility of the proposed super carrier
"Many have questioned how realistic this ambition might be, given the current limitations of Russia's shipbuilding industry in particular and defence industry in general."
Analysts cast doubt on Russian plans for supercarrier - IHS Jane's 360

And France makes such sub-par weapons ( according to you ) that Russia needs our stuff
The foundations for Franco-Russian cooperation on a program of this size have been laid on several fronts over the last few years. France’s Thales already provides components for Russia’s front line military equipment, from tank gunnery sights to avionics and targeting pods for Russian-built fighters.
Mistral Amphibious Assault Ships for Russia: Deliveries Hanging

All available by searching the Net.
If you can't be bothered to make sense due to fanlyhood, may I suggest a knitting forum?
Military matters require judgement more than sports do, sorry!

Tay.

 

[Indian Patriot]

What apart from personal preference motivated you to write such an inane post, buddy?

Contemporary world history.

The USSR single-handedly demolished Nazi Germany in the second world war and I won't hurt your feelings by discussing French contribution in that war.

The USSR was a world power and direct rival of USA during the cold war because of its military muscle. Yet again I won't bring up France.

Anybody who has even an amateur interest in history will agree that Russian weapons be it their tanks, aircraft, ships, artillery, missiles count among the best in the world. They were not called a super power for nothing.

I suggest you skip your fanlyhood and read history. Like you said my friend this is a military forum and not a knitting club. Unless your internet articles can confirm that France has anything of the class of Akula and Typhoon nuclear submarines, Yakhont class supersonic cruise missiles and Topol-M class ICBMs then you should not get so excited. Russia is building stealth fighters like the PAK-FA, how many French stealth aircraft are there in making?

France has an independent military industry, good thing. But to say France is equal or superior to Russia in military design and manufacture then you are sadly sadly mistaken.

Military matters are based on cold facts and sound judgement more than sports do. Please be aware of that.

 

[Taygibay]

History is fine for the long run, buddy!
If you know it, because it doesn't show in your answer :
" The USSR single-handedly demolished Nazi Germany in the second world war … "

But if you think Russia is doing as well now as USSR did in 1989, shipbuilding wise,
you're not a historian, you're deluded.

As for your calls above, I'll let other posters with a mind appreciate them.
But apart from the articles you did not read, do check your propagandhi :

Barracuda, Triomphant, ASMP-A, M-51 and a working fighter vs a burning prospective one,
be it 5th gen. TASS: Russia - Russia’s newest fighter jet T-50 not meant for export in near future — official

I'm gladly gladly right, Your parroting my post without understanding nor facts only confirms that.

Best of luck with reality, Tay.

 

[Indian Patriot]

History is fine for the long run, buddy!
If you know it, because it doesn't show in your answer :
" The USSR single-handedly demolished Nazi Germany in the second world war … "

But if you think Russia is doing as well now as USSR did in 1989, shipbuilding wise,
you're not a historian, you're deluded.

As for your calls above, I'll let other posters with a mind appreciate them.
But apart from the articles you did not read, do check your propagandhi :

Barracuda, Triomphant, ASMP-A, M-51 and a working fighter vs a burning prospective one,
be it 5th gen. TASS: Russia - Russia’s newest fighter jet T-50 not meant for export in near future — official

I'm gladly gladly right, Your parroting my post without understanding nor facts only confirms that.

Best of luck with reality, Tay.

Well it is too bad you took the comments personally but that is really not my problem.

And history counts here very much. USSR was a military power and they were a military power because hey made some very effective and dangerous weapons.

And no need to get so excited pal. I said Russia is lacking only in funds not in intelligence required to make weapons. Only USA can claim they have an edge over Russia in weapon making. France does not even come close. You may feel bad, you may feel sad but reality does not change with your emotions. USSR or Russia both are military heavyweights. England will have a better naval history plus better navy than France.

Your barracudas and piranhas come nowhere near Typhoons and Akulas. Please stop deluding yourself so much. If you are wasted on nationalist jingoism then go ahead but don't tom tom your fantasies as reality because nobody other than you believes them. Fact is that Russia has a supersonic anti-ship missile and a flying 5th gen aircraft/prototype while France does not. Fact is Russia has better weapons and weapon platforms than France has. Yes Russia is handicapped because of financial crunch but if they get the funds they need then they can push USA far behind. The cold war was fought between USA and Russia because they were and still are the two most powerful militaries on planet earth.

You are right alright. You are right in your private fantasy reality.

 

[Narendra Damodar Modi]

Its always fun to see a pro-Russia Indian and a pro-France French duking it out

 

[Taygibay]

USSR was a military power

Past tense is telling here but as long as you used it and insist on history to back your claims …
where were the Russians when we fought the Romans or stopped the Ummayads exactly?
Oh! That's right, still waiting for the Vikings to invent them out of the Bronze age.

I said Russia is lacking only in funds not in intelligence required to make weapons.

Intelligence? Another tell : did you mean they copy their armament from spied knowledge? Oh no, sorry, you, of
course seeing prior answers, did not mean it in the military sense but general term.

England will have a better naval history plus better navy than France.

I would agree but that literate verb tense use begs the sarcastic remark : They will? When?

Only USA can claim they have an edge over Russia in weapon making. France does not even come close.

I like that bolded part, to be put in relation with one of those links you ignored that showed that Russia imports
our weapons and we don't theirs. Or the thread's raison d'être that they got the ToT they needed from trying to
buy our ships because they could not make those themselves in … a Russian piece. You're trying to be right
over the Russians themselves, the irony of which eludes your wisdom apparently.

but don't tom tom your fantasies as reality because nobody other than you believes them.

Read the links buddy! I'm not alone; if anything you are! Which from a guy from the 2nd most populated place
on Earth is quite a feat! Then again, seeing how you ignore reality, it's possible you think yourself alone amongst
that billion and nearly a half?

Fact is Russia has better weapons and weapon platforms than France has.

Again, then why do they need our sights on their guns, our ships to invade neighbours, and so on?

but if they get the funds they need then they can push USA far behind.

That's gonna require a lot of funds.

The cold war was fought between USA and Russia

Yes, let's say so! And who won that exactly? Pray tell?

Its always fun to see a pro-Russia Indian and a pro-France French duking it out

Agreed! Judging by your nick, you're probably even sensitive to the possibility of, seeing that he backs Russia
instead of Bharat probably by feeling of proxy, me having to defend it against him at some point?
Have your mischievous fun with that show if it comes by all means my friend
Free vaudeville for you! Never pass a ( free ) opportunity to laugh. As we said with @Indus Falcon a sense of humor is vital!

Good day all, Tay.

 

[kaku1]

Russians have better weapons and weapons platform than France. Russian SSBNs are the best in the world. Only thyink Russians lack is the finance.

This is totally totally incorrect statement.

 

[Manindra]

This is totally totally incorrect statement.

Now brace up for hoards of abuses

 

[Indian Patriot]

Past tense is telling here but as long as you used it and insist on history to back your claims …
where were the Russians when we fought the Romans or stopped the Ummayads exactly?
Oh! That's right, still waiting for the Vikings to invent them out of the Bronze age

With due respect to history the Russians even in cavemen age has a better military record than France. But we are talking of contemporary history here mostly post 1945.

Intelligence? Another tell : did you mean they copy their armament from spied knowledge? Oh no, sorry, you, of
course seeing prior answers, did not mean it in the military sense but general term.

Just like countries copy designs. India copied he design for Arjun tank. Russia and USA come up with their own designs and it shows in their platforms. The T-90, Armata, Ka-52 for Russia and the F-22, B-2,F-117 for USA are unique designs.

And yes, countries do copy designs from others and it is a long established practice. The AK-47 has several dozen copies, China copied aircraft designs from European aircraft etc.

I would agree but that literate verb tense use begs the sarcastic remark : They will? When?

Till the end of time or until France manages to have a better war record (for a change).

I like that bolded part, to be put in relation with one of those links you ignored that showed that Russia imports
our weapons and we don't theirs. Or the thread's raison d'être that they got the ToT they needed from trying to
buy our ships because they could not make those themselves in … a Russian piece. You're trying to be right
over the Russians themselves, the irony of which eludes your wisdom apparently.

Importing a weapon could be because of many reasons. The US imports the German Rheinmetal gun but that does not mean Germany is a superior power to USA.

Read the links buddy! I'm not alone; if anything you are! Which from a guy from the 2nd most populated place
on Earth is quite a feat! Then again, seeing how you ignore reality, it's possible you think yourself alone amongst
that billion and nearly a half?

Yes you are alone buddy if you think Russia lags behind France in military manufacturing. You certainly are alone. USSR did not compete with France in cold war, they did it against USA.

And India's population is certainly not billion and a half, you are lacking in your knowledge.

Again, then why do they need our sights on their guns, our ships to invade neighbours, and so on?

For the same reason USA imports the rheinmetal tank gun. Do you think USA lacks the resources or know-how or do you think importing the tank gun is simpler and cheaper than designing and building your own gun? Cost issues, resources etc. many factors come into play.

That's gonna require a lot of funds.

For once you posted something sensible. Russians are sorely lacking in funds.

Yes, let's say so! And who won that exactly? Pray tell?

USA won that, not France. I said USA and Russia are in a league of their own. France, England or any other country does not come close. I am not being mean to your adopted country but it is a very obvious fact that anybody rational would agree.

Its a good hing you are so much fond of France. But we are talking facts here and I would repeat hat US and Russia are in their separate league. Russia would always be a superior military power to France and as of now heir weapons and equipment are at par or superior to those of France. If Russia ever manages to improve their economy and consequently their defence spending then hey would be able to compete with US in equal measure.

Now brace up for hoards of abuses

Everybody is not like you, you know.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Past tense is telling here but as long as you used it and insist on history to back your claims …
where were the Russians when we fought the Romans or stopped the Ummayads exactly?
Oh! That's right, still waiting for the Vikings to invent them out of the Bronze age.


Intelligence? Another tell : did you mean they copy their armament from spied knowledge? Oh no, sorry, you, of
course seeing prior answers, did not mean it in the military sense but general term.


I would agree but that literate verb tense use begs the sarcastic remark : They will? When?


I like that bolded part, to be put in relation with one of those links you ignored that showed that Russia imports
our weapons and we don't theirs. Or the thread's raison d'être that they got the ToT they needed from trying to
buy our ships because they could not make those themselves in … a Russian piece. You're trying to be right
over the Russians themselves, the irony of which eludes your wisdom apparently.


Read the links buddy! I'm not alone; if anything you are! Which from a guy from the 2nd most populated place
on Earth is quite a feat! Then again, seeing how you ignore reality, it's possible you think yourself alone amongst
that billion and nearly a half?


Again, then why do they need our sights on their guns, our ships to invade neighbours, and so on?


That's gonna require a lot of funds.


Yes, let's say so! And who won that exactly? Pray tell?


Agreed! Judging by your nick, you're probably even sensitive to the possibility of, seeing that he backs Russia
instead of Bharat probably by feeling of proxy, me having to defend it against him at some point?
Have your mischievous fun with that show if it passes by all means my friend
Free vaudeville for you! Never pass a ( free ) opportunity to laugh. As we said with @Indus Falcon a sense of humor is vital!

Good day all, Tay.

Why are you arguing with an 'Indian patriot' that even Indians here themselves have condemned/distanced themselves from? Garde ton calme Cher ami.