Four MMRCA contenders fail Leh trials

[KEETARP]

For high altitude tests, i believe engine performance is one of them among others.

LCA trials at Leh were deemed success.

Grippen has done it.

So what is that both share, Engine technology.

Thus with this logic, F/A-18 seems to be the other candidate who must have passed the Leh trials.

As without engine, the trials won't be success.

And all 3 share the same engine or its technology.

No Taimi , Engine performance is not the factor . I also thought that initially but its a different case .
And Tejas is underpowered if you take the performance of Ge404
If you look at the T/W ratio of all jets with meaningful combat load ( 60-70% int fuel and 3BVR+2Wvr missile +2 A2S weapon+ 1Droptank/Pods/Jammer)
Only Eurofighter and Mig35 have T/W ratio more than 1ne ( Mig35 best having 18000kgf / 17500 typical combat load ).
If Gripen c,d with GE404 having T/W ratio near 1 or less have cleared , F16 must have done it easily.

if you read the Press release , Leh trials for others were minor problems and they cleared all jets by asking manufacturers for minor modifications
Its the reliability of Avionics and subsystem to perform at low temp.
Swedish winter tests for NG had -31temp so it got cleared in LEH.
F16 may be the other one - Alaska & Norway experience. And history of operation at in Colorado springs .
F18E - Have never seen such thing , Canada only operates them but Avionics change are too much in newer one to be reliable in LEH.
Mig35- same case as F18 , Serbia had old Mig29 but newer ones have different avionics altogether.
Rafale - Have never seen such conditions
Eurofighter - Is the one doubtful bcoz it was rumoured to have operated in Sweden at -30temp .

 

[KEETARP]

Even Rafael should have cleared since Mirages fly from Leh. IMO the failure is over hyped.

No
Mirages during Kargil were operational no-doubt but never took-off from LEH.
It was Mig29 only which took off from Leh with near minimal load , some say it was Srinagar or Avantipur
Try and see video on youtube abt Air-force describing Kargil operations , i posted that link in LGB's testing thread , it must also be in archives.
Mirage always took off from Punjab air-base and were given topcover from Mig29 which joined them from J and K base.

 

[soaringphnx]

I personally dont feel that just because four of the contenders failed in the Leh trials, they are out of the race. Also, we have to remember that unlike the LCA, these aircraft werent designed keeping such extreme conditions in mind. I am sure that the manufacturers only need to modify the engines a little.

 

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

The primary aim of the IAF is to diversify away from Russian platforms. The Mig 35 is probably the least favoured candidate for this contract. I personally would prefer a combination of the Gripen and the SH. That would probably make the most sense but there are always politics involved and Sweden is not a big hitter. Replacing the Mig 21's with a double engined aircraft alone would be stupid and prohibitively expensive.

BTW, forget the aircrafts that failed, I would like to know which one did not.

no point of urs..indians are looking for medium multi role that fits the existing structure....together with mix of latest techs and improvising the squad strength.......well forget the americans they are out with their honeytraps.....can u rely on the next president of US what he will do...so forget the US aviaonics...yes the is a certain hope for eurofighter...and russians.....MIG35's..may be to compensate the americans..indians will give some big orders for Hercules/Globe Trottter and Awacs...but not the MMRCA

 

[SQ8]

Actually, lets factor in the height of Leh and skardu.. and find out if the F-16 made the grade or not

 

[KEETARP]

Never know what surprise Forums can offer some time .

This particular Gentleman claims to know about Leh trials more than anyone .

Cross posting from key pub

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showpost.php?p=1612913&postcount=927

First of all, now I work at the Brazilian Congress, exactly at Senate's Foreign Affairs and National Defence Committee, and I have a lot of inside info about Brazilian affairs. At that time, Gripen C/D hadn't arrived at India and all pro-Gripen forums said that it was amongst the better performance planes... Only four twin engined planes flew from Leh at that time.

To be truthful, the Indian Air Force Commander visited Brazil a few days ago and a lot of new info about Leh affair leaked.
The first point is that IAF is still discussing Gripen participation. The RFI and RFP established that all tests must be conducted with the real bidders. The tests at Leh were conducted with Gripen C/D and Demo and both of them are not representative of NG. The Raven radar still is not completely operational.

According Indian officers, two planes failed: MiG35 and F/A-18E/F. Gripen Demo takes off with the required load (only two tanks, four air-to-air missiles and a cargo of 1900kg bombs). Typhoon and Rafale takes off with full cargo but EADS bidder failed at some attack missions

 

[!!craft!!]

Actually, lets factor in the height of Leh and skardu.. and find out if the F-16 made the grade or not

no doubt f16 is a good fighter ..but there is one issue you guys are pros in dealing with f 16,the way it moves ,its weaknesses and its advatages...

 

[Tshering22]

How long are they going to keep the hype on? Stupid politicians..they think that it is a Kaun Banega Crorepati contest going on while all these hypes are going on, our pilots are dying.

Let the bloody winner be declared and let the fighters start getting in already. I am surprised that how come the IAF not staged a coup in sheer fury.

 

[gogbot]

Never know what surprise Forums can offer some time .

This particular Gentleman claims to know about Leh trials more than anyone .

Cross posting from key pub

Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums - View Single Post - Rafales for Brasil #3, Cachorro-quente!

No mention of the F-16 ?

Also according to that statement , Rafale should be in the lead

 

[Luftwaffe]

How can F/A-18 fail high altitude tests, RCAF has been flying them since 1982 till date, in extreme conditions, US Navy has put their F/A-18s to harshest conditions for the past 30 Years.

 

[KS]

By Prateek:

The tests at Leh were conducted with Gripen C/D and Demo and both of them are not representative of NG. The Raven radar still is not completely operational.

According Indian officers, two planes failed: MiG35 and F/A-18E/F. Gripen Demo takes off with the required load (only two tanks, four air-to-air missiles and a cargo of 1900kg bombs). Typhoon and Rafale takes off with full cargo but EADS bidder failed at some attack missions

So is my choice justified atleast here..?

How can F/A-18 fail high altitude tests, RCAF has been flying them since 1982 till date, in extreme conditions, US Navy has put their F/A-18s to harshest conditions for the past 30 Years.

Wat harsh consitions sir..? we r speaking abt operating from highest airfield on earth.Not some sea level carriers.
infact i will not be surprised if the SH fails as it has been optimised for take-off from carriers not from mind-numbing heights.

 

[Luftwaffe]

And you think US Navy would not have put F-18 E/F to test before it is operationalized..
Swiss Air Force has been using F/A 18C/D

 

[!!craft!!]

And you think US Navy would not have put F-18 E/F to test before it is operationalized..
Swiss Air Force has been using F/A 18C/D

they might have not not as harsh conditions like Leh and skardu...

 

[KS]

they might have not not as harsh conditions like Leh and skardu...

@Luftwaffe :

Exactly....conditions on all mountains are not the same..they vary with latitude and many factors.

Even if the US put the SH to test they might not have tested in harsh conditions like Leh for the primary reason the Hornet was not designed to operate from conditions like Leh!!!!

And IIRC even the test in Leh was conducted in the height of winter not even in summer.

 

[Tshering22]

no point of urs..indians are looking for medium multi role that fits the existing structure....together with mix of latest techs and improvising the squad strength.......well forget the americans they are out with their honeytraps.....can u rely on the next president of US what he will do...so forget the US aviaonics...yes the is a certain hope for eurofighter...and russians.....MIG35's..may be to compensate the americans..indians will give some big orders for Hercules/Globe Trottter and Awacs...but not the MMRCA

I wish you're right. The last thing we'd want is a quarter of our fighter fleet grounded just because Pentagon and we don't see eye to eye on some stupid point.

Technology is good only if it is useable. Almost all non-European, non-NATO countries that were US-jet operators have changed to Russian or other platforms because of this sanction "keeda" (worm).

I hope that it is either Rafale or MiG-35. You French need to do something about those engines of yours... they're lesser than the Mirage's M88 in power!