Forty Years of the Islamic Republic: What Next? - Prince Reza Pahlavi speaks

[scythian500]

You've been doing the same for 5000 years before you became Muslim.

5000 years ago!!!? Zoroaster himself was born somewhere between 3000 to 3500 years ago!! This is how you devoted Indian Zoroastrians are being taught about your prophet and religion!!

For us, as Iranians, Zoroastrian was and is just a part of our history prior to a more logical and advanced religion got introduced to the people of the world.

It could be seen as Muslims or Christians see Abraham's religion which was Hanif per Quran and also historical and linguistic sources (Hanif means someone who rejected two main branches of star worshiping and idol worshiping and got out of those dominant religions in that time) and monotheist. Because some of our ancestors followed Moses the prophet or Jesus that does not mean we are originally Jewish and we should not be Christians or Muslims today.. Simple logic..

So, Iranian had this Zoroastrian religion for some time, but then that was enough for the level of wisdom and brain humans had in that time... The more human being grew in brain capacity the more complex religions were introduced to them by God.

This is why Islam sees all Abrahamic religions as one religion evolved throughout history. These religions are just a chain of religions who are one religion if Time and Location variables are excluded from them.

Judaism by the time of Pharaohs is = to Christianity by the time of Romans and Christianity is = to Islam by the time of Sassanian and Roman remnants.

So, Zoroastrian was Iran's religion in one time in history but it is no longer our religion as Iranians evolved into more sophisticated religions starting by Judaism and ending up by Shia Islam.

By the way, in a time where whole so called nations and countries are only decades old (UAE, IRAQ, PAKISTAN, EX-SOVIETS, ISRAEL and Saudi land) and some a bit older fake nations like USA, Australia, Canada, why some people insist that Islam is not the religion of Iran while Iran is a MUSLIM nation for 1400 years now!!

It is like some people make some short lived dynasties of Iran as IRAN's identity while they forget to mention much longer lived and by no doubt much more successful dynasties as pages of history which should be ignored!!

Achaemenid empire with all its emperors lived only 220 years and despite its glorious size and system had been subjected to himulation by the hand of the young Alexander of Macedonia while it was the pure Zoroastrian Iranian Parthian or Arsacid dynasty who regained Iran's glory and defeated invaders and guess what stayed in power for nearly 500 years (478 years to be exact).. Parthians were seen by Iranian people as saints... They were seen as purest Iranians who served Iran.. Even purer than Achaemenids... They fought Romans (actually famous Iranian general Surena who defeated the Roman Crassus is from that era) purified Iranian culture from Greek pollution.. They served land, culture, economy, military, language of Iran.. Much better than Achaemenids... but u see there is no sign of them in hearts and wide mouths of so called Iranian nationalists or Indians who are Zoroastrians...

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/شاهنشاهی_اشکانی

It is the same case when we look at how successful Iran was during the Islamic Golden Age which lasted nearly 800 years... Comparing to pre-Islamic Iran.. Iranian post Islam, Islamic Golden Age era is the one of the shiniest part of Iranian history...

The Islamic Golden Age is the era in the history of Islam, traditionally dated from the 8th century to the 14th century, during which much of the historically Islamic world was ruled by various caliphates, and science, economic development and cultural works flourished.[1][2][3]

This period is traditionally said to have ended with the collapse of the Abbasid caliphate due to Mongol invasions and the Siege of Baghdad in 1258 AD.[6] A few contemporary scholars place the end of the Islamic Golden Age as late as the end of 15th to 16th centuries.[1][2]

Causes

Religious influence

The various Quranic injunctions and Hadith, which place values on education and emphasize the importance of acquiring knowledge, played a vital role in influencing the Muslims of this age in their search for knowledge and the development of the body of science.[13][14][15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

So, in brief, we respect Zoroastrian religion as it is monotheistic and as it was the religion of distant forefathers..but nothing more than that..they way you respect your Pentium 4 computer device but don't use it as there are better versions available...

Religion is not ethnic... If it is a religion from God then it can not be ethnic... Only Jews can manipulate a religion into an ethnic tool!!

Iran and Iranians identity is Shia Islam like it or not.. and there is no Arabic or Aramaic or Israelite or Chinese religions!! We worship the God of all creatures.. so there is no Arabic religion here... Its more Iranian religion than being Arabic to be fair... as Iranian scholars were and still are the main pillars of all progress Islam being witnessed in last 14 centuries...

No sane person would stick to a short period of time of your history thousands of years ago and leave its 1400 years of recent history... The more recent data always has more value as it is the current fact..

 

[Śakra]

5000 years ago!!!? Zoroaster himself was born somewhere between 3000 to 3500 years ago!! This is how you devoted Indian Zoroastrians are being taught about your prophet and religion!!

For us, as Iranians, Zoroastrian was and is just a part of our history prior to a more logical and advanced religion got introduced to the people of the world.

It could be seen as Muslims or Christians see Abraham's religion which was Hanif per Quran and also historical and linguistic sources (Hanif means someone who rejected two main branches of star worshiping and idol worshiping and got out of those dominant religions in that time) and monotheist. Because some of our ancestors followed Moses the prophet or Jesus that does not mean we are originally Jewish and we should not be Christians or Muslims today.. Simple logic..

So, Iranian had this Zoroastrian religion for some time, but then that was enough for the level of wisdom and brain humans had in that time... The more human being grew in brain capacity the more complex religions were introduced to them by God.

This is why Islam sees all Abrahamic religions as one religion evolved throughout history. These religions are just a chain of religions who are one religion if exclude time and space variables from it.

Judaism by the time of Pharaohs is = to Christianity by the time of Romans and Christianity is = to Islam by the time of Sassanian and Roman remnants.

So, Zoroastrian was Iran's religion in one time in history but it is no longer our religion as Iranians evolved into more sophisticated religions starting by Judaism and ending up by Shia Islam.

By the way, in a time where whole so called nations and countries are only decades old (UAE, IRAQ, PAKISTAN, EX-SOVIETS, ISRAEL and Saudi land) and some a bit older fake nations like USA, Australia, Canada, why some people insist that Islam is not the religion of Iran while Iran is a MUSLIM nation for 1400 years now!!

It is like some people make some short lived dynasties of Iran as IRAN's identity while they forget to mention much longer lived and by no doubt much more successful dynasties as pages of history which should be ignored!!

Achaemenid empire with all its emperors lived only 220 years and despite its glorious size and system had been subjected to himulation by the hand of the young Alexander of Macedonia while it was the pure Zoroastrian Iranian Parthian or Arsacid dynasty who regained Iran's glory and defeated invaders and guess what stayed in power for nearly 500 years (478 years to be exact).. Parthians were seen by Iranian people as saints... They were seen as purest Iranians who served Iran.. Even purer than Achaemenids... They fought Romans (actually famous Iranian general Surena who defeated the Roman Crassus is from that era) purified Iranian culture from Greek pollution.. They served land, culture, economy, military, language of Iran.. Much better than Achaemenids... but u see there is no sign of them in hearts and wide mouths of so called Iranian nationalists or Indians who are Zoroastrians...

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/شاهنشاهی_اشکانی

It is the same case when we look at how successful Iran was during the Islamic Golden Age which lasted nearly 800 years... Comparing to pre-Islamic Iran.. Iranian post Islam, Islamic Golden Age era is the one of the shiniest part of Iranian history...

The Islamic Golden Age is the era in the history of Islam, traditionally dated from the 8th century to the 14th century, during which much of the historically Islamic world was ruled by various caliphates, and science, economic development and cultural works flourished.[1][2][3]

This period is traditionally said to have ended with the collapse of the Abbasid caliphate due to Mongol invasions and the Siege of Baghdad in 1258 AD.[6] A few contemporary scholars place the end of the Islamic Golden Age as late as the end of 15th to 16th centuries.[1][2][3]


So, in brief, we respect Zoroastrian religion as it is monotheistic and as it was the religion of distant forefathers..but nothing more than that..they way you respect your Pentium 4 computer device but don't use it as there are better versions available...

Religion is not ethnic... If it is a religion from God then it can not be ethnic... Only Jews can manipulate a religion into an ethnic tool!!

Iran and Iranians identity is Shia Islam like it or not.. and there is no Arabic or Aramaic or Israelite or Chinese religions!! We worship the God of all creatures.. so there is no Arabic religion here... Its more Iranian religion than being Arabic to be fair... as Iranian scholars were and still are the main pillars of all progress Islam being witnessed in last 14 centuries...

No sane person would stick to a short period of time of your history thousands of years ago and leave its 1400 years of recent history... The more recent data always has more value as it is the current fact..

We dont consider these parsis Indian. Like mixed-race children, they are neither here nor there. They will never be considered anything more than unwelcomed guests in India. Idk how what the Iranis consider them but I think it must be someone between strangers and pretenders.

 

[scythian500]

We dont consider these parsis Indian. Like mixed-race children, they are neither here nor there. They will never be considered anything more than unwelcomed guests in India. Idk how what the Iranis consider them but I think it must be someone between strangers and pretenders.

He considers himself a PROUD INDIAN as his motto yells!! and if you ask me, he is Indian.. He and their people have Indian IDs and Passport, they lived in India like forever... Even most of them look like Indians these days as it seems... At least any Parsi I have encountered in my life can easily pass as Indians if they come to Iran...

So, as sikhs or Muslims or idol worshipers are considered Indians these Parsis are also as Indian.. it does nt matter if some of them want to associate themselves with Iranians... Iranians are those who withstood and fought invaders for thousands of years and still living in Iran... although people are mixed with other humans through out history, still Iranians are quite distinctive in the way they look and act today... but certainly all of them hold Iranian passports and can speak Persian.. (unlike others who can not even speak Persian and claim to be pure)

 

[Tokhme khar]

@padamchen...you hearing this?....whats this world coming down to?.....you goin take this shit from this appu hendu?

We dont consider these parsis Indian. Like mixed-race children, they are neither here nor there. They will never be considered anything more than unwelcomed guests in India. Idk how what the Iranis consider them but I think it must be someone between strangers and pretenders.

 

[padamchen]

@padamchen...you hearing this?....whats this world coming down to?.....you goin take this shit from this appu hendu?

It's a big country man.

Canada I mean.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Destranator]

The best Iranians are the secular Iranians....

But secular Bangladeshis are termites.

#HvHlogic
@Nilgiri

 

[raptor22]

Everyone can see that you're still engaged in diverting from the thread topic: the mullahs and the future of their regime.

On topic:
Why American are so eager to see a regime change in Iran but nothing in their beloved Arab dictator allies in the region?

 

[Nilgiri]

Whoever is investing in Reza boy is stupid. This man has never earned a single dime by his own hands. He literally lives on his mothers savings. His only claim to Iran is his Shahi lineage. I am not a fan of Mullahs but whoever thinks they are going anywhere is living in a fools paradise. They might die a slow political death which is natural and bound to happen.



And you are a Pakistani pretending to be a Turk.

W.r.t : https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistani-nationalism-contradictions.589177/page-16#post-11077482

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan (I'm only bothering with this because we have had some pretty good conversations earlier)...I get the affinity you have for hakikat....but he is pushing clearly a very sectarian agenda. I mean only good iranians are the "secular" ones?...what happened to his "islamic faith is the ultimate thing" that he preaches in other certain subforums as some overriding raison d'etre used to diminish an entire nation as termites that crows laugh at?

All I was saying (in that thread that is now closed)....is he can choose to be any identity he wants to be (ironically not afforded the same to certain other nationalities here, but another subject not worth my time)....but he should stop being:

a) so repetitive and dull (in BD forum which you saying I now "agree with bengals" on just one thing)*
b) so inconsistent at fundamental level (and I am being polite here)

Of course maybe you can ask him what he means by "only good iranians are secular ones"? I think its pretty clear what he means between the lines there....but maybe I am wrong? You think @Tokhme khar just out of the blue mocks him to join some feelz chorus? Haki instigates a lot of stuff for no reason...bringing both crescent and star identities he feigns real life distance from (but some historical emotional proximity to) into open disrepute among members here...for not much reason at all (except whatever sectarian emotional vendetta).

*BTW I agree with "bengalis" on a whole lot more than just one thing... we are coming to agreements/compromises on many things down the road (and they actually surprised how much I was challenging earlier...for more debate sake than anything else). I cannot have (my previous) unfettered hostility to them that long, no one can....esp not with this forum not treating equivalent standards for all (Esp for my own). Its all fun and games to have me directed against BD ppl (simply because thats one of few places I can go all out for a debate) and expect me to ignore what rest of this forum is becoming. It saddens me this forum was once cut from a great cloth (from hushed voices senior members from that time still here talk here in certain corners)...but it has been so sullied now.

@Joe Shearer @Indus Pakistan @Mage @Al-Ansar @bluesky @jbgt90 @padamchen @UKBengali @Game.Invade @Hell hound @I.R.A @jamahir @Zibago

Um, why can't I tag @hellfire....what happened?

 

[Tokhme khar]

Mate, just imagine a tork guy interested in hendu-pak issue?.......sure............All that haghighat va Hekmat is all in an assumed imagination. It's ok though.......fantasy is allowed in this world.

W.r.t : https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistani-nationalism-contradictions.589177/page-16#post-11077482

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan (I'm only bothering with this because we have had some pretty good conversations earlier)...I get the affinity you have for hakikat....but he is pushing clearly a very sectarian agenda. I mean only good iranians are the "secular" ones?...what happened to his "islamic faith is the ultimate thing" that he preaches in other certain subforums as some overriding raison d'etre used to diminish an entire nation as termites that crows laugh at?

All I was saying (in that thread that is now closed)....is he can choose to be any identity he wants to be (ironically not afforded the same to certain other nationalities here, but another subject not worth my time)....but he should stop being:

a) so repetitive and dull (in BD forum which you saying I now "agree with bengals" on just one thing)*
b) so inconsistent at fundamental level (and I am being polite here)

Of course maybe you can ask him what he means by "only good iranians are secular ones"? I think its pretty clear what he means between the lines there....but maybe I am wrong? You think @Tokhme khar just out of the blue mocks him to join some feelz chorus? Haki instigates a lot of stuff for no reason...bringing both crescent and star identities he feigns real life distance from (but some historical emotional proximity to) into open disrepute among members here...for not much reason at all (except whatever sectarian emotional vendetta).

*BTW I agree with "bengalis" on a whole lot more than just one thing... we are coming to agreements/compromises on many things down the road (and they actually surprised how much I was challenging earlier...for more debate sake than anything else). I cannot have (my previous) unfettered hostility to them that long, no one can....esp not with this forum not treating equivalent standards for all (Esp for my own). Its all fun and games to have me directed against BD ppl (simply because thats one of few places I can go all out for a debate) and expect me to ignore what rest of this forum is becoming. It saddens me this forum was once cut from a great cloth (from hushed voices senior members from that time still here talk here in certain corners)...but it has been so sullied now.

@Joe Shearer @Indus Pakistan @Mage @Al-Ansar @bluesky @jbgt90 @padamchen @UKBengali @Game.Invade @Hell hound @I.R.A @jamahir @Zibago

Um, why can't I tag @hellfire....what happened?

 

[Placemat]

Even European royals were disgusted that one of his ancestors made mountains out of the eyeballs of his enemies. Yet is it moral to visit the punishment the forebear deserved upon his descendant? Not in Judaism: link.

Of course, I can't speak for Islam. What's your opinion?

Most invaders did something disgusting llime this. Islamic invaders did it in various places. Recently pol pot regime supported by China did it. The USA has a stellar record in killing populations. The Europeans did it in Africa and India and native America, australia etc.
So in they have no right to be disgusted at what was done centuries ago

We dont consider these parsis Indian. Like mixed-race children, they are neither here nor there. They will never be considered anything more than unwelcomed guests in India. Idk how what the Iranis consider them but I think it must be someone between strangers and pretenders.

**** off , Persians are as Indian as can be. If Iran calls itself Muslim after 1000 years of islam , Persians also have been In India for as much time so are gujjus in all the sense. Take your trash else where.
Who us the lady on your profile

5000 years ago!!!? Zoroaster himself was born somewhere between 3000 to 3500 years ago!! This is how you devoted Indian Zoroastrians are being taught about your prophet and religion!!

For us, as Iranians, Zoroastrian was and is just a part of our history prior to a more logical and advanced religion got introduced to the people of the world.

It could be seen as Muslims or Christians see Abraham's religion which was Hanif per Quran and also historical and linguistic sources (Hanif means someone who rejected two main branches of star worshiping and idol worshiping and got out of those dominant religions in that time) and monotheist. Because some of our ancestors followed Moses the prophet or Jesus that does not mean we are originally Jewish and we should not be Christians or Muslims today.. Simple logic..

So, Iranian had this Zoroastrian religion for some time, but then that was enough for the level of wisdom and brain humans had in that time... The more human being grew in brain capacity the more complex religions were introduced to them by God.

This is why Islam sees all Abrahamic religions as one religion evolved throughout history. These religions are just a chain of religions who are one religion if Time and Location variables are excluded from them.

Judaism by the time of Pharaohs is = to Christianity by the time of Romans and Christianity is = to Islam by the time of Sassanian and Roman remnants.

So, Zoroastrian was Iran's religion in one time in history but it is no longer our religion as Iranians evolved into more sophisticated religions starting by Judaism and ending up by Shia Islam.

By the way, in a time where whole so called nations and countries are only decades old (UAE, IRAQ, PAKISTAN, EX-SOVIETS, ISRAEL and Saudi land) and some a bit older fake nations like USA, Australia, Canada, why some people insist that Islam is not the religion of Iran while Iran is a MUSLIM nation for 1400 years now!!

It is like some people make some short lived dynasties of Iran as IRAN's identity while they forget to mention much longer lived and by no doubt much more successful dynasties as pages of history which should be ignored!!

Achaemenid empire with all its emperors lived only 220 years and despite its glorious size and system had been subjected to himulation by the hand of the young Alexander of Macedonia while it was the pure Zoroastrian Iranian Parthian or Arsacid dynasty who regained Iran's glory and defeated invaders and guess what stayed in power for nearly 500 years (478 years to be exact).. Parthians were seen by Iranian people as saints... They were seen as purest Iranians who served Iran.. Even purer than Achaemenids... They fought Romans (actually famous Iranian general Surena who defeated the Roman Crassus is from that era) purified Iranian culture from Greek pollution.. They served land, culture, economy, military, language of Iran.. Much better than Achaemenids... but u see there is no sign of them in hearts and wide mouths of so called Iranian nationalists or Indians who are Zoroastrians...

https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/شاهنشاهی_اشکانی

It is the same case when we look at how successful Iran was during the Islamic Golden Age which lasted nearly 800 years... Comparing to pre-Islamic Iran.. Iranian post Islam, Islamic Golden Age era is the one of the shiniest part of Iranian history...

The Islamic Golden Age is the era in the history of Islam, traditionally dated from the 8th century to the 14th century, during which much of the historically Islamic world was ruled by various caliphates, and science, economic development and cultural works flourished.[1][2][3]

This period is traditionally said to have ended with the collapse of the Abbasid caliphate due to Mongol invasions and the Siege of Baghdad in 1258 AD.[6] A few contemporary scholars place the end of the Islamic Golden Age as late as the end of 15th to 16th centuries.[1][2]

Causes

Religious influence

The various Quranic injunctions and Hadith, which place values on education and emphasize the importance of acquiring knowledge, played a vital role in influencing the Muslims of this age in their search for knowledge and the development of the body of science.[13][14][15]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age

So, in brief, we respect Zoroastrian religion as it is monotheistic and as it was the religion of distant forefathers..but nothing more than that..they way you respect your Pentium 4 computer device but don't use it as there are better versions available...

Religion is not ethnic... If it is a religion from God then it can not be ethnic... Only Jews can manipulate a religion into an ethnic tool!!

Iran and Iranians identity is Shia Islam like it or not.. and there is no Arabic or Aramaic or Israelite or Chinese religions!! We worship the God of all creatures.. so there is no Arabic religion here... Its more Iranian religion than being Arabic to be fair... as Iranian scholars were and still are the main pillars of all progress Islam being witnessed in last 14 centuries...

No sane person would stick to a short period of time of your history thousands of years ago and leave its 1400 years of recent history... The more recent data always has more value as it is the current fact..

The reason religion causes problem is the attitude that mine is more logical and superior than yours. And adding that nothing can be more superior and logical ever again. You talk about human brain evolution but Islam and all abrahamic religions does not accept evolution. You talk about logic but you accept faith which is devoid of logic and has just commands which you have to obey without thought . If you say that islam is part of iran then israel belongs to Jews right?. Just do not belittle others please.

 

[Nilgiri]

Mate, just imagine a tork guy interested in hendu-pak issue?.......sure............All that haghighat va Hekmat is all in an assumed imagination. It's ok though.......fantasy is allowed in this world.

Yep I'll just tag you to have a little laugh each time haha....to enjoy the ottoman high heels fez guy fantasies.

"If crows could laugh"!

 

[Solomon2]

...they have no right to be disgusted at what was done centuries ago -

I did not raise the subject of the Shah's ancestor's cruelties. I pointed out how they were seen by that man's European contemporaries at the time, in the nineteenth century. Here is a "money quote":

...The next second his eyes were wandering over my body; I felt as if I was being disrobed.
"You will attend the opera?"
"I'll have the honor."
"I will send you a little present after dinner," he said. "If you wear it tonight, I will regard that as a sign of hope." The beast affected a sentimentality to which he must be a stranger.
I recalled that he was the monster who carpeted the steps of his throne with the gouged-out eyes of ten thousand enemies of his régime when he was crowned. On twenty-thousand human eyes he trod with naked feet as he acclaimed himself "King of kings" and the "true son of God." And Juggernaut was in love with me!

Fischer, Henry W. (Henry William). Secret Memoirs: The Story of Louise, Crown Princess (Kindle Locations 1514-1520). Kindle Edition. [Entry dated "November 20th, 1894"]

 

[Nilgiri]

Um, why can't I tag @hellfire....what happened?

@Vibrio ....gosh now I have to get used to this bleh

 

[Placemat]

I did not raise the subject of the Shah's ancestor's cruelties. I pointed out how they were seen by that man's European contemporaries at the time, in the nineteenth century. Here is a "money quote":

...The next second his eyes were wandering over my body; I felt as if I was being disrobed.
"You will attend the opera?"
"I'll have the honor."
"I will send you a little present after dinner," he said. "If you wear it tonight, I will regard that as a sign of hope." The beast affected a sentimentality to which he must be a stranger.
I recalled that he was the monster who carpeted the steps of his throne with the gouged-out eyes of ten thousand enemies of his régime when he was crowned. On twenty-thousand human eyes he trod with naked feet as he acclaimed himself "King of kings" and the "true son of God." And Juggernaut was in love with me!

Fischer, Henry W. (Henry William). Secret Memoirs: The Story of Louise, Crown Princess (Kindle Locations 1514-1520). Kindle Edition. [Entry dated "November 20th, 1894"]

Ok.. but isn't this rich co m ing from the Europeans of the 19th century when slave trade was at its peak, the extermination of natives in us was happening, when famines in I did were being engineered when rape of Africa was in full swing? Here despicable as the individual maybe I have a feeling its a case of the victors writing history. Sadly that's the case with human history.

That being said could u pls point me to more reading material.

 

[Solomon2]

Maybe, but it is apt in describing a home grown leader is better for any country, rather than one imposed by foreigners.

I like your phrase better.

Ok.. but isn't this rich co m ing from the Europeans of the 19th century when slave trade was at its peak -

1894 was two generations after the slave trade ended, the U.S. had been an independent state for over a century, and the royal family Princess Louise belonged to, the Wettins of Saxony, had little or nothing to do with European colonization.

That being said could u pls point me to more reading material.

Lots of this old stuff available free or cheap for Amazon Kindle. You don't even need to buy a Kindle; just download the app, set up an account, then find and download the stuff.