1. They claim that if this girl was more religious it would have saved her from this outcome
I say that is BS and the news I posted just adds to it. The issue doesn’t lie whether this girl was liberal or conservative but poor judgement and compounded by the callous attitude of the man’s elite parents.
Ok, I hear you and even thou I said that I rest my case but I have to respond because your Posts even from your POV is right but have a lot of loopholes and misconception, and things you are mixing and unable to see it through, which is extremely frustrating for me because you are well verse in religion and worldly education.
Again, for third time those who are claiming that Islam would saved her from the outcome are not saying in a sense that if she was more modest she wouldn't have that fate, First of all whatever happen to us and every living creature has been written ions before Allah has created us, it is well secured in a Lohe Mehfooz, now whether you believe it or not its your Problem not mine, the Tablet aka Lohe Mehfooz is in Quran and one can not argue who claims to be a Muslim, so Allah has written her fate, her death, with all other exception long before she was out of her mothers womb, now on the act itself yes if she follows Islam more strictly it could've saved her like in a sense, that First of all she wouldn't have BF to begin with which is against the teaching of Prophet, second she wouldn't be lying about going to Ijtima and going to her crazy BF house for sex, so technically if she follows Islam that would definitely Help her and she would be alive today, but again whatever Allah decree for her life and death we have no say in it nor we can do anything to change it except Pray to Allah for guidance.
You are claiming that it is because of Poor judgement but you failed to mention what makes you think it was a poor Judgement? the Poor judgment can be both in a sense of Islam and her catching the red flags from the psycho, yes she should've pick up that psycho's signals but again if she was on the deen she wouldn't be on the path of self destruction to begin with, Her death (doesn't matter) how brutal has nothing compared to what awaits her in Hell (if Allah decides to put her there) Again not my decision but only Allah has that Power.
2. They claim that while they feel “sad” it is only “logical” that this happened to this type of girl and this “company” of people . I can posts some 50 news articles showing conservative girls and boys who either succumb to a combination of frustrations or their own character which leads to similar escapades and crimes.
Again mere bhai, what does it matter if some people say certain things? you are not to judge and generalize the entire nation and religious community for the comments of few, you said it yourself in your own posts bhai... Again you have 50, I'd say you have 500, 5000, 500,000 cases , news or articles what does it has to do with a fact that a man who believe that following a religion strictly to its teaching can save us from the wrong doings and ill fates? I stopped at red light a man made law to avoid crashing myself and others, if someone believes that laws set by the creator can help us, them or any victim of a crime then it is not yours nor my position to criticize them brutally and wrap everyone with a stereotypical brush to paint.
Every human is different and Islam acknowledge this very well, but there is a reason why certain rules are given straight to the community to protect not individuals but the society it self from going into the abyss of darkness, and yes in that regard people have within their rights to judge them based on the laws given in Quran and Hadith, because if we can not judge anyone then there is no reason to have these rules because Allah is not going to come down to earth to judge everyone, he has appointed first Prophets then their successors to rule us through the guidance and authority which is established once the community picked up their rulers.
3. The claim that by not acknowledging that having more Islamic laws(once they can even agree what that is) would have prevented this from happening. I say BS, Saudi Arabia has the strictest laws and yet plenty of social ills exist which are snuck under the rug.
Now that is straw man argument, yes we have division and sects, but Islam and its rulings are certain, Not talking about the family of Ale Saud or cult residing in Tehran, they can claim whatever they want about the incompletion of Quran or illegitimacy of Rashidun Caliph, but in reality when you and I will die that is no excuse for anyone that we didn't follow the commands because we got Sunni Shia and Qadiyani's, Quran is clear, Quran is complete and so is deen, in this particular matter there is no question that there are various rules which were broken by both parties and because of the so called Liberalism we are trying to hard to prostrate to they won't let the murdered killed for retaliation. Girl become the Victim in this case because she was killed brutally, if the girl who killed the man then the man would be wrong and in both cases at least in the eyes of Islam are subject to same Punishment, try beheading a women for murder such brutal in a world like we live, and see how the leeches of Human rights put Sanctions on your country.
I am an American as well with family in Pakistan whose family probably has lost a lot more and given more then any of the dipshits here claiming to be warrior for The Islam , so lets not play that card.I can lay out with news and video proofs what my family has done for that country and it will outmatch most of these people claiming to be the next Aziz Bhatti of online Pakistani defense martyrs. However, I am not going to brush everything and paint it all pretty just for the sake of assuaging egos anymore. If I speak of the ills in the United States of which are plenty even though this country gave me everything from nothing, then I have every right to speak against a country and people that took everything and gave nothing back. Especially for people that have nothing better in their lives than to let horrors of society slide and then wipe it away with the usual toilet paper statements of “If we had Islam, or true Islam these problems would never exist” while conducting horrible acts in its name.
First of all, with all due respect (I mean it) the bold part is extremely arrogant, again you might be from a educated background and did some jobs in top position with your family but what exactly your and yours family contribution to Islam? and in what regard you think that yours and your family serves the Islam as a global religion, don't be arrogant bhai Allah don't like it and you are neither a Rasool nor Sahabah nor ahle bayt, You calling people Dipshits because of what your own poor judgments is extremely bad, secondly working for Pakistan doesn't mean working towards the benefit of Islam, lets not mix them both because Islam is a religion with global reach and Pakistan is just a country who's majority of Population try's to follow it in their own way.
You are an American and this country gives you a lot and hence you are bias enough to not speak ill of that country, If I argue you are literally Bashing millions of people for a crime which has literally nothing to do with 223 Million Pakistani's nor Islam you think its right? No one in Pakistan except for yes a small minority put the ills of Society under the rug, yes they can't do anything about it and in many instance they are actually doing the crime but one reason which we can argue is that we are far from the religion, because every ill that Pakistani society has today can be sorted out from Islam, and its a claim that I stand behind.
People who commit crimes in the name of Islam, wouldn't be able to do it if we had a more proper understanding of Islam to begin with.
Are 4 year olds not raped in the United States or other western societies which these people bring up as an excuse here? They do and it’s a real and prevalent issue here - heck read the abuse stories of boyscouts or pastors all over. But I have yet to read statements from Americans stating that mote christianity would have saved those victims.
You gotta be kidding me, You never read comments on Youtube, Facebook or twitter ? I mean seriously, If i had time I would just posts comments from Indians, Americans and Westerners and their comments which celebrate deaths of Muslims and many times of Jews, Christians (evangelicals) are some of the most brutal judgmental people you would ever come across. There are countless posts from Christians on criminal news from US include rape, murder and others that Christs would save them, if they were Christian that would not have happened, you are keeping a blind eye on the ills of a certain people because they give you a job, money and etc man you sell yourself for such a low price. As for Americans lets me give you a hint of their own society, you remember Jeffry Epstine and his scandal, Bill cosby , Bill clinton , Judge Roy moore and etc some of them are not, but others like Judge Roy moore are very well recognized Christians and yet the claims about them sexually assaulting women and raping are there for you to ponder. So my friend its not just boyscouts or Pastors, American elite, Govt , judiciary and every aspect of their society has criminals and crazy psychopaths in them and there are also who do victim blaming and have made exact similar claims as you are criticizing Pakistani's and Muslims for, but as you yourself said you won't say anything to them because America gives you job, house , Passport green card etc, hence you my friend lost credibility to judge Pakistani's or anyone for because you are refusing to criticize your own (Americans). Don't judge others when you are not ready to be judged by others.
That 4 year old girl was raped by a man who likely stood in the mosque a few hours before that and like me and others here recited “iyyaka na'budu wa iyyaka nastaeen” ... I’m waiting for the statements on how more of such “Islam” would have saved this child.
Again, a 4 year old girl raped in a mosque which has nothing to do with this case, but let me ask you this what do your think Abu Bakr, Umar , Uthman and Ali RA to all would've done to that Molvi ? I used only 4 caliphs because only they are the Rightly guided ones, so yes what does it matter if a molvi rape a girl in mosque or street ? place doesn't matter the crime does, Masjid's are nothing holy nor any significance is attached to them today, do we consider Masajid to be the house of Allah ? No, so a rape is as wrong as it happens anywhere, having it in a masjid or Church neither make it more bad.
As for you waiting on the people to comment, that how Islam would've saved the child again, Islam can not save anyone people can, if that child's fate is determined by Allah then me or you nor entire world could've saved her, but there is a system which Allah wants us to follow which punishes people like those who rape anyone anywhere. It doesn't matter if you recite Quran everyday unless that message goes down to your heart and nafs, those words " Iyyaka na'budu wa Iyyaka Nastaeen " means nothing if you are just reading them as words and part of job as either mouzin or Iman, Zam Zam is just water unless you believe it has healing power, You can not see Allah and yet you believe he is there, the man who commits any crime or sin, his actions first determined that he lost faith on the fact that even if no one is seeing him/her but at least Allah is watching him and he/she will be answerable for their sins one day, so yes that molvi you keep brining up has forgot that he will die some day to stand in front of his creator to answer and so does this girl who was unfortunately murdered by the psychopath, she also believe that if she sneak from her Parents into her BF house for sex, then Allah will not see her or make it unseen.
I honestly want to continue this conversation but I fear that Mods will ban me for it, so I feel this discussion can not have a productive end.
you are always one my favorite posters to read.
