Formal Offer for J-31 and also presention on J20

[Zhukov]

JF-17 In Large Numbers
J-10B like 3 Sqaud
F-16's
J-31 how many can we get 60 70? it wont be coming till 2024.... i guess we have to wait for that one... And Pakistan Air Force Also showed keen interest in Turkish 5 Gen fighter Prog

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If we upgrade JF17 with Aesa and also purchase AESA upgrade for our F16s then their is nothing india can throw at us that we cant manage in next 10 years.
Untill or if their FGFA arrives we will have J31.
Hood future proof planning by PAF.

 

[Humble Analyst]

Pakistan needs more than Multirole Aircraft, we need deep strike and Air superiority planes. Can we afford them? Do not know but we need to change from totally defensive light aircraft to be effective against IAF and J31 is years away. It needs good engines and that will need a lot of work as the smoke from engines was not a pretty sight during 2014 Air show display.

 

[boke]

J-31目前还存在诸多改动，首先是定位，轻型机，中型机，还是中型机？多用途，还是空优，还是对地对海突出？做好定位，才能对国产发动机有一个明确的发展要求。中国的五代机必定要用上中国产的航空发动机，试飞过程中用到进口的发动机只是过度。如果是用于出口的话，巴基斯坦应该可以放心，你们会最优先得到的。我想，它到巴基斯坦的时间不会晚于T50到印度的时间，虽然是猜测，印度的朋友可以不相信！

 

[Dazzler]

The following is said to be a new radar dome for the next generation of AWACS for Pakistan。

Probably a slightly scaled-down version of the KJ-500

Covered with roses increases instrumental range

 

[MULUBJA]

forget kabaar khana lets move to 5th gen

Exactly. You may go for high tech Rafale, Eurofighter or Gripen also.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

Hi,

I always found this 30:1 kill ratio for the F/A-22 or the 100:1 against F-16s a bit amusing. That's the theoretical value, not practical one at all. A single F/A-22 cannot kill more than the missiles it is carrying, and it no where near carries 30 or even half of that, (assuming each AIM120 or AIM9X that it fires actually kills a target)

To be fully stealth, it needs to carry the Air to Air payload internally, meaning only 6 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders. Once all 8 are expended and kill 8 aircraft, F/A-22 cannot do much. So it is more like a 8:1 kill ratio
Of course this case is for a single F/A 22

If it has to use the gattling cannon, then that is a WVR dog fight fight, and if it really is that close, then shit already hit the fan.

Edit:
Sorry i didn't see your earlier post, kill ratio can mean two things....
1-How many does the F/A-22 kill in one sortie/engagement
2-Or how many times (sorties) can it go up against an enemy and get shot or not shot.



America will not give the F-35 to India given the strategic imbalance it will bring. They gave Pakistan BLK52s to balance somewhat, so F-35 in the near future for India is not possible. Americans might let India have F-35 when it feels that both China AND Pakistan have got their hands on similar tech or are about to get it.

So F-35 sales to India are plausible, but not really the American way of playing the balancing act in South Asia.



Well, the T-50 programme is in deep trouble and India has no clue. Already invested so much. Given that India feels the Rafale is expensive, i would love to wait and see how this T-50 and FGFA goes. India cannot build a 5th gen plane on its own, that is given and proven. Since FGFA is also tied to T-50 efforts, that is like a complete screw up.

Meanwhile China is chugging along. No funding issues, though we don't really know where their tech is.

I somewhat agree with you. But given china able to equip itself with proper fifth gen aircraft in 2020 onwards I do think USA will prefer to equip india with F35 to keep regional imbalance aside. Offer is already there for naval version of F35.
We must never count out Russians. They made Sukhoi 27 a success back in USSR era. Now design bureau thrives on export. India will surely put more funds into making FGFA a success.

 

[Humble Analyst]

If we upgrade JF17 with Aesa and also purchase AESA upgrade for our F16s then their is nothing india can throw at us that we cant manage in next 10 years.
Untill or if their FGFA arrives we will have J31.
Hood future proof planning by PAF.

We have to counter Rafale, improve our maritime strike capability planes to counter P8 Poseidon & mig 29s from Aircraft carriers to protect our subs and surface crafts including coast line. So let us realize full situation, we need 3-4 squadrons of 4th generation twin engine medium range strike Air craft and 4 squadrons of Air superiority planes. Until we get second strike capable subs this is minimum deterrence we need. Financially it is a tall order in current situation. This deterrence is needed to resist enemy crossing red lines too early.

 

[tarrar]

This was a very important visit for PAF & surely we will be seeing new hardware in coming years.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Honestly I don't think China will offer any country j31 or j20.

Yes not any country but Pakistan,Pakistan knew about J-20 from start.

 

[AMDR]

It's a race to see whoever gets their first 5th gen squadron operational first.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I always found this 30:1 kill ratio for the F/A-22 or the 100:1 against F-16s a bit amusing. That's the theoretical value, not practical one at all. A single F/A-22 cannot kill more than the missiles it is carrying, and it no where near carries 30 or even half of that, (assuming each AIM120 or AIM9X that it fires actually kills a target)

To be fully stealth, it needs to carry the Air to Air payload internally, meaning only 6 AMRAAMs and 2 Sidewinders. Once all 8 are expended and kill 8 aircraft, F/A-22 cannot do much. So it is more like a 8:1 kill ratio
Of course this case is for a single F/A 22

If it has to use the gattling cannon, then that is a WVR dog fight fight, and if it really is that close, then shit already hit the fan.

Edit:
Sorry i didn't see your earlier post, kill ratio can mean two things....
1-How many does the F/A-22 kill in one sortie/engagement
2-Or how many times (sorties) can it go up against an enemy and get shot or not shot.



America will not give the F-35 to India given the strategic imbalance it will bring. They gave Pakistan BLK52s to balance somewhat, so F-35 in the near future for India is not possible. Americans might let India have F-35 when it feels that both China AND Pakistan have got their hands on similar tech or are about to get it.

So F-35 sales to India are plausible, but not really the American way of playing the balancing act in South Asia.



Well, the T-50 programme is in deep trouble and India has no clue. Already invested so much. Given that India feels the Rafale is expensive, i would love to wait and see how this T-50 and FGFA goes. India cannot build a 5th gen plane on its own, that is given and proven. Since FGFA is also tied to T-50 efforts, that is like a complete screw up.

Meanwhile China is chugging along. No funding issues, though we don't really know where their tech is.

Hi,

The ratios of 108:1 or 30:1 are not for our understanding----we are a NOBODY in scenario----this is the term the defence professionals are using----.

The post states that WVR combat the F22 won 30 times and lost 1 time-----. In another instance it was 108:1.

This is how the air force calculates----.

Now if it was the other way around then Pakistanis don't stop bragging----like the affair with the Eurofighter---paks claim to be 3:0---they had 3 skirmishes and they won 3 skirmishes----now f 16 carries 2 bvrs and 2wvr----why wasn't it more-----.

 

[A2Z]

Honestly I don't think China will offer any country j31 or j20. China will not give it's cutting edge technology to anyone. They will probably export j10 and j10b.

China is reluctant to give J-20 like USA does not export F-22 to anyone, however J-31 was meant to attract export customers. However when you talk about Pakistan and their relations and the fact that a strong and stable Pakistan is vital for China they might make the exception. However the bottom line is that PAF is not interested in J-20 they are only interested in J-31. And as far as J-10 is concerned China offered it to Pakistan way back in 2007 when they were still developing it and only J-10A was out. So there is no doubt that J-10 will remain on table for PAF.

 

[rcrmj]

Meanwhile China is chugging along. No funding issues, though we don't really know where their tech is.

PLA had abounded Soviet standard and system in late 70s, the systems and standard we are using now to develop new weapon systems are based on western standards with own modifications...

in terms of avionics, radar, airborne weapon systems we are already ahead of Russia with margin, and on pair with Western countries. until to this day, Russia still does not have a serving airborne AESA that is at the same level of our 2nd gen AESA (2009 condition)` yet our pace of development is ever accelerating and maturing

engine and material science are the only sectors that we can see a dramatic closing-in within this decade. WS-15, WS-13 and WS-20 are the projects that will bring us right next to GE, HP and BA

 

[Zhukov]

We have to counter Rafale, improve our maritime strike capability planes to counter P8 Poseidon & mig 29s from Aircraft carriers to protect our subs and surface crafts including coast line. So let us realize full situation, we need 3-4 squadrons of 4th generation twin engine medium range strike Air craft and 4 squadrons of Air superiority planes. Until we get second strike capable subs this is minimum deterrence we need. Financially it is a tall order in current situation. This deterrence is needed to resist enemy crossing red lines too early.

Rafale is not their for now. And even if it is inducted in next 4 or 5 years. AESA upgraded F16s can counter them.
AESA upgrade for F16 would suffice to intercept Mig29, Su30, Mirage2000 or even Rafael. Dont worry.
The real problem for us is not capability but Quantity. We need to increase numbers in my opinnion 250 JF17s and 130 F16 are enough to counter IAF in next 10 years.

Navy is indeed a problem. And we should look for Destroyers and long range strike aircrafts like Flankers. Ues i agree with you on naval aspect. But IAF is no big deal as compared to Indian tall claims

 

[Windjammer]

Just because a version of SU-30 spearheads the IAF, doesn't exactly makes it invincible, during DACT, it even repeatedly got locked by the J-10.

HUD capture showing a Lock On onSU-30 MKK2 Flanker by a Chengdu J-10A, reportedly taken on Dec. 2, 2013.