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Formal Offer for J-31 and also presention on J20

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Why do we always run on rumours only to end up in extreme disappointment. First it were the J-10s, than J-10B AKA FC-20, then came the chinese submarine deal (I wonder what happened to that) and now another thread already 12 pages of Pakistanis trying to convince themselves of this deal while Indians on the other hand trying their best to somehow belittle the plane just because a) Its made in China and b) Pakistan seems interested in it.
It is as simple as ABC... We do not have enough information hence hearsay and rumors are the best source.

What happened with J-10's? Time changed... Technology developed... Requirements changed....
 
Don't you think Indians going the American way will bring Russia and Pakistan more closer?
How ?? Russian are closing in with Chinese which is are concerns

Nevertheless is there is no way Pakistan can replace india and its defence procurements from Russia in near future.
 
PAF opt both options to counter indian by induting j-20& j-31 and all spend on jf-17 put for j-31 with assembly line in pakistan and j-20 ro replace f-16s
 
It is as simple as ABC... We do not have enough information hence hearsay and rumors are the best source.

What happened with J-10's? Time changed... Technology developed... Requirements changed....

Than we need to keep rumours at bay IMO till something concrete happens.
 
my question is j-31 is comparable in terms of speed with f-22 or f-35?
No two aircraft are same.... This is like even if we say that JF-17 manufacturing number 1 will be exactly same as JF-17 manufacturing number 100 is untrue. Now you would go they are the same aircraft?

Every aircraft has its own personality and that makes them unique.

PAF opt both options to counter indian by induting j-20& j-31 and all spend on jf-17 put for j-31 with assembly line in pakistan and j-20 ro replace f-16s
Source???

Than we need to keep rumours at bay IMO till something concrete happens.
It is complected to keep them at bay...

If we see some thing knowing we do not have the money to buy it still we hope if we can get it... This is also true in other cases.
 
Rafale is not their for now. And even if it is inducted in next 4 or 5 years. AESA upgraded F16s can counter them.
AESA upgrade for F16 would suffice to intercept Mig29, Su30, Mirage2000 or even Rafael. Dont worry.
The real problem for us is not capability but Quantity. We need to increase numbers in my opinnion 250 JF17s and 130 F16 are enough to counter IAF in next 10 years.

Navy is indeed a problem. And we should look for Destroyers and long range strike aircrafts like Flankers. Ues i agree with you on naval aspect. But IAF is no big deal as compared to Indian tall claims
Agree to all but 36 Rafales were bought off the shelf and 128 MMRCA are off the table. But 36 are coming next year. Do agree with quantity issue as well.
 
Don't you think Indians going the American way will bring Russia and Pakistan more closer?

Might be. But due to our long term strategic partnership, I dont think, Indo Russo friendship will suffer from it. Most of all its a matter of Indian National Security which cant be compromised. Add to that Russians will always get bulk of arms import as long as they provide us their top of the line products. I have every confidence Russians will overcome problems related to PakFA.
 
As per documentary shown on Discovery/NAT GEO it was 15-0 in favor of 2 F-22 vs 15 F-15s and to give more firepower to F-22s to take on larger number of foes USAF wanted B-1R version of Lancer which could carry long range BVRs on external hard points (if needed internal too) with very advance EW system on boards and connected with NCW.

OK, please do me a favor, please don't add music to an existing tune. When the -22 can't carry weapons load worth of 15 missiles, than on simulation, it can kill 2000 jets. What's the point? In real life, it has no value as it can only take out 6 planes through missiles and 2 more through cannon (highly unlikely) in ONE mission. So why talk about Cinderella stories?

What the Pentagon and USAF commanders often say in different articles, is the fact that today, against adversaries, a -22 can fly many missions and be successful in destroying enemy assets. By the time a -22 gets shot down, it has already, in other missions, destroyed like 25-35 enemy jets. So the benefit is huge. Nowhere will they say that in ONE mission, it can take out 25 or more jets.

Second, the Lancer concept, is a concept widely discussed at some point in the USAF. It not just Lancer, they even thought about trying a missile truck in the shape of C-130. A larger radar mounted on C-130 (still much smaller than AWACS radars) would still allow it to hit 20-30 or even 40 targets from longer ranges. But this has nothing to do with the INDIVIDUAL performance of the -22. The -22 is the topic. Not concepts of force multipliers through using B1 Lancers or C-130's or a Mercedes Benz sports that flies and can carry missiles as it has no relevance to the topic.
 
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OK, please do me a favor, please don't add music to an existing tune. When the -22 can't carry weapons load worth of 15 missiles, than on simulation, it can kill 2000 jets. What's the point? In real life, it has no value as it can only take out 6 planes through missiles and 2 more through cannon (highly unlikely) in ONE mission. So why talk about Cinderella stories?

What the Pentagon and USAF commanders often say in different articles, is the fact that today, against adversaries, a -22 can fly many missions and be successful in destroying enemy assets. By the time a -22 gets shot down, it has already, in other missions, destroyed like 25-35 enemy jets. So the benefit is huge. Nowhere will they say that in ONE mission, it can take out 25 or more jets.

Second, the Lancer concept, is a concept widely discussed at some point in the USAF. It not just Lancer, they even thought about trying a missile truck in the shape of C-130. A larger radar mounted on C-130 (still much smaller than AWACS radars) would still allow it to hit 20-30 or even 40 targets from longer ranges. But this has nothing to do with the INDIVIDUAL performance of the -22. The -22 is the topic. Not concepts of force multipliers through using B1 Lancers or C-130's or a Mercedes Benz sports that flies and can carry missiles as it has no relevance to the topic.

As I am getting older---the hemmorhoids hurt when ever they want to---and I react accordingly----my question to you is---what is your problem----for the last few posts you are just off the rocker with a couple of good posters.
 
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Pakistan Looking To Buy China's J-31 Stealth Fighter


Pakistan Looking To Buy China's J-31 Stealth Fighter



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As I predicted since the very first blurry images of J-31 hit the internet, China's youngest stealth project was meant for export as much as for PLAAF use. Pakistan is now said to be beyond the initial discussion phase for buying the stealth jet. This comes during a time of increasing tension with India, whose air combat capabilities have ballooned over the last decade.

The Chinese-Pakistani arms trading relationship goes back many decades, and as relations with the US continue to chill, Pakistan is looking for a more stable supply source for its air combat needs. This is nothing new, in fact this happened fifty years ago after the Indo-Pakistan War of 1965, when the US placed an embargo in weapons sales to Pakistan. This resulted in Pakistan turning to China for combat aircraft, specifically, the Shenyang F-6, a clone of the Russian MiG-19. Since then the Pakistani Air Force has also fielded Q-5s and F-7s from China, of which the MiG-21 based F-7s are still are in use today. Although somewhat archaic in complexity, these Chinese aircraft have been fielded alongside American F-16s and French Mirages for decades.
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The largest deviation into Chinese-based air combat procurement Pakistan has made in recent years was with its jointly developed JF-17 'Thunder' (known as FC-1 in China) light fighter. This nimble and reliable jet is now in its second design evolution as the improved JF-17 Block II, with a third evolution being fielded later this decade.
Pakistan has viewed this cooperative fighter jet program as a giant success, not just in value and enhanced combat capability, but in potential future exportability. Pakistan's Rana Tanveer Hussain, minister of defense production, states in an article from Dawn.com:
"We have nearly confirmed orders from seven countries for JF-17... The PAF has a requirement of 250 aircraft, but now we have decided that we'll sell some of the JF-17 Block-2 to international buyers besides fulfilling our local demand."
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This may be a similar direction that Pakistan will attempt to head when it comes to the J-31, known in its export configuration as the JF-31. Both the JF-31 and the JF-17 share the same Russian Klimov RD93 engines (also found in the MiG-29), which presents certain sustainment and commonality synergies for the Pakistani Air Force. The JF-31 may also allow Pakistan to retire other aircraft and focus on it and the JF-17 for its future combat capability, presenting a relevant and sustainable high-low air combat capability mix.
Currently, the highest-end combat aircraft flown by the Pakistani Air Force are Block 52 F-16s, of which 18 were controversially delivered just a few years ago. Although these fighters are incredibly capable, they are also stringently controlled by US arms export rules and serviced by forward deployed contractors. Export control seals are said to be placed on many of the aircraft's most cutting edge components. Even trackers are rumored to be embedded in the jets that allow the US to monitor their whereabouts and if the US ever saw the jets being used for something it was totally against, there are rumors that they could be disabled in an instant and remotely. Just the US security contingent that is part of the F-16C/D Block 52 export contract is said to cost Pakistan some $30M a year.
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Even if the rumors of exotic export control devices are not true, just pulling OEM support for the advanced F-16s could leave many of their most important sensors and systems useless within a very short period of time. Additionally, Pakistan already went through one F-16 embargo and it was not pretty, many of those aircraft, built at the tail-end of the F-16A/B production run, now fly with the Navy's Strike Fighter Weapons School, otherwise known as TOPGUN.
As for procuring the stealthy J-31, Jane's Defence quoted an unidentified Pakistani official as saying that the Pakistani Air Force was in talks with China to buy 30 to 40 of the Shenyang FC-31 stealth jets, which corroborates similar numbers and statements that have been floating around the defense community for months.
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The biggest thing Pakistan would gain by fielding the JF-31 is a low-observable fighter aircraft that would make some strides at leveling the India-Pakistan air combat equation. India has procured throngs of advanced fighters in the last decade and half, including hundreds of thrust-vectoring Su-30MKIs and dozens of carrier-capable MiG-29Ks. Additionally, many older Indian fighters have been substantially upgraded with new avionics and cutting edge jamming system. The Indian Navy's young and potent MiG-29K fleet gives their long-awaited aircraft carrier,…

India did not stop there when it comes to increasing their air combat might. The Multi-Role Combat Aircraft contract, which will see the French Dassault Rafale flying in Indian colors in coming years. This brings one of the West's most advanced fighters, with a high degree of sensor fusion, to the region, and the stealthy Russian-Indian PGFA fighter program also continues to evolve. That aircraft will be based on Russia's 5th generation stealthy fighter design, the Sukhoi T-50. Finally, India has its own JF-17 like program that is fairly mature, known as the 'Tejas" light combat aircraft. This is mostly indigenous design that is just beginning to be fielded now and will be both land and carrier capable.
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What this all adds up to is a vast imbalance of future air combat capabilities between the two nuclear armed and constantly unfriendly neighbors. Fielding the JF-31 would be an attempt by Pakistan of forestalling India's rapidly increasing aerial dominance.
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For China, Pakistan would give the J-31 a first export customer and would help offset some of its development costs. Developing two low observable fighters at a one time is not a cheap task, and partnering up for the J-31 could allow more funds to be funneled to the more impressive and strategically relevant J-20 program.
Strangely enough, Pakistan, the US and China's roads have crossed before when it comes to stealth technology. The tail of the stealth chopper that was used in the Bin Laden raid of 2011 was trucked from the site by Pakistani forces and China was given exclusive access to it before it was finally returned to the US at John Kerry's in person request. This was seen as a retaliation for America's unilateral and humiliating action against the Bin Laden compound, located deep in Pakistani territory.
It is a little more than ironic that some of the technology gleaned from that tail is likely embedded into the J-31. Just another reminder of the tightrope the US continues to walk in Pakistan and how for many countries, the international super-power alternative to the US is increasingly China.
JF-31 Sounds really good :)
 
OK, please do me a favor, please don't add music to an existing tune. When the -22 can't carry weapons load worth of 15 missiles, than on simulation, it can kill 2000 jets
May be taken from Hollywood movie's...USA is quite fond of such Invisibility
 
See the bold above......its is SO over exaggerated!!! The average was like half a squadron before -22 becomes visible to modern avionics. How could a -22 kill 33 jets anyway? It only carries a few missiles. Too many fan boys writing this stuff as experts!
the word exercise i think you didn't get it did you let me give you a link than :)
Top USAF general explains EXACTLY how to kill an F-22
by Stephen Trimble on 28 February, 2012 in Uncategorised
Hopefully, you will never find yourself in air-to-air combat with a Lockheed Martin F-22, particularly if you happen to be flying any other fighter besides an F-22. The Raptor still boasts a 30:1 kill ratio in mock dogfights (the only kind of dogfight, alas, the F-22 has ever known).

Notice, however, the “:1″ part of the ratio expression. That’s the proof: The F-22 can be shot down.

But how?

This morning, Lieutenant General Herbert “Hawk” Carlisle, deputy chief of staff for plans, operations and requirements, explained how a Boeing F-15 can shoot down an F-22. Carlisle spoke this morning about fifth generation fighters at a breakfast event sponsored by the Air Force Association in Rosslyn, Virginia.

Here is a transcript of Carlisle’s remarks:

“They [the F-22s] always start defensive as you might imagine because anything elseis kind of a waste of gas. So the F-22 always start defensive. On rareoccasions the F-22 guy — first of all, the [F-15] Eagle guy, you have to fly a perfectlag fight (flight?). You have to have AIM-9X and JHMCS [joint helmet mounted cueing system] to get an off-boresightIR [infrared] capability. And the F-22 guy has to put up his power a nanosecond too earlyand not use his countermeasures and you may get a fleeting, one nanosecondAIM-9X shot, and that’s about it.”





Make that the OTHER way to shoot down an F-22.

We already know there’s another tactic developed by the F-22′s simulated opponents.

Back in November, 2008, there was a minor blogosphere eruption when an Air National Guard colonel was seen on YouTube providing all sorts of fascinating details about Red Flag activities, including how F-15 pilots have learned to shoot down the F-22.

Here’s what he said:

“We’ve been fighting the Raptor and getting our butts kicked, and you know the only chance you have against the Raptor is when he’s in the turn and he’s coming around the corner — and you have an inexperienced guy because the experienced guys know not to get there — but the inexperienced guy has got — and this is, no [shoot], 28-degrees-per-second turn rate at 20,000 feet. The F-15 has an instantaneous [turn rate] of 21 [degrees] and a sustained [turn rate] of about 15-20 degrees. The Raptor can sustain 28 degrees. Some of these young guys, that’s not enough for them. They want more than that! So they come around the corner, and, here you are in your Eagle, just hoping that he gets scared and … [the F-22 pilot] pulls to the point where he’s going post-stall manoeuvring. Once he goes post-stall, the airplane stops moving around the centre of lift on the wing and it goes around the centre of gravity up by the nose because it goes on just thrust, and the ***-end drops down, and the airplane will rotate like this. Well, in the Eagle, or in the [F-16] Viper, when you see that, you immediately go vertical because you know he’s not going to be able to go up with you, and you have one fleeting opportunity against the Raptor and that’s it.”



Yes, that’s it. Consider this your F-22 dogfight survival guide, although you will probably still be dead

- See more at: Top USAF general explains EXACTLY how to kill an F-22 - The DEW Line
 
the word exercise i think you didn't get it did you let me give you a link than :)
Top USAF general explains EXACTLY how to kill an F-22
by Stephen Trimble on 28 February, 2012 in Uncategorised
Hopefully, you will never find yourself in air-to-air combat with a Lockheed Martin F-22, particularly if you happen to be flying any other fighter besides an F-22. The Raptor still boasts a 30:1 kill ratio in mock dogfights (the only kind of dogfight, alas, the F-22 has ever known).

Notice, however, the “:1″ part of the ratio expression. That’s the proof: The F-22 can be shot down.

How old are you really? What they are talking about, even a 10 year old aviation enthusiast knows. There is nothing credible in your post and you are silly hell bent in just arguing for no good reason.

1) Everyone knows in close combat, IR is what can make the -22 seen. So yea, even a nanosecond worth of IR lock by AIM would do. I think the Rafale's proved it. But then again, how many times would you EVER see a Raptor within the IR range? Probably never in a conflict as the -22 will be firing from 60-100 miles away!!!

2) Post stall maneuver, I think I wrote about it on this very forum or another forum, like 4 years ago. That's true for Raptor or anything else with TVC. Post stall recovery is the easiest way to get anything with heavy TVC involved. It has nothing to do with -22 being Stealth, its the TVC that's getting it out of a Missile lock, but post stall, getting it in a clear gun sight or in another missile lock for short range AAMs. But really, how often in combat, you'd expect to see the Raptor do a fun Cobra in front of you, knowing it would be a sitting duck to even an upgraded Mig-21 in post stall recovery. These things exist for fun exercises and so are the "simulated" combat related details. Simulated combats are good training missions, not actual warfare.

3) Do you really expect for anyone out there to come on up to the media and openly gossip about hot easily they can shoot down probably the most guarded and secret weapon system on the planet, costing a whopping $ 175 million per jet? You have to be out of touch with reality to think so!!
 
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