Foreign direct investment in Pakistan plunges by 38.7pc in July

[SQ8]

The analogy is wrong sir. The bakhts ( mostly a religious mob) as well as normal indians will not tolerate dissent.

But Pakistanis used to - and still do on the educated side to an extent. But if we start lynching too and especially without clear proof(Which we can discern) we cannot say anything. The question is, I have views and posts that talk on corruption in the military and consider extremism a major issue in Pakistan - already there are laws that make any criticism of military a jail time and if those are dissenting views that would make me an Indian too?

 

[Patriot forever]

But Pakistanis used to - and still do on the educated side to an extent. But if we start lynching too and especially without clear proof(Which we can discern) we cannot say anything. The question is, I have views and posts that talk on corruption in the military and consider extremism a major issue in Pakistan - already there are laws that make any criticism of military a jail time and if those are dissenting views that would make me an Indian too?

Sir I do not hold such shallow views. There is a difference between constructive criticism and weaponizing it deliberately for intended purpose to harm the state itself. I know the history of the member and the views he/she carries right from pervaiz hoodboy articles, and the confusion regarding the state itself.

 

[SQ8]

Sir I do not hold such shallow views. There is a difference between constructive criticism and weaponizing it deliberately for intended purpose to harm the state itself. I know the history of the member and the views he/she carries right from pervaiz hoodboy articles, and the confusion regarding the state itself.

Let that confusion be - sometimes its basic frustration beyond Pakistan and more on a personal level of finding no growth. And when you cannot admit to blaming yourself or parents openly for not fighting the circumstances that Pakistani society has or trying to change them - then you go “bik gayi hai gornmint” or “Pakistan sucks” . Still, someone is saying something unlike our neighbors where “all izz well”.

 

[truthfollower]

harm the state

Pakistani state for that matter any other state is just a man made idea. And if you think making fun of it or whining about it is anti state or whatever then you need to expand your understanding.

 

[Patriot forever]

Pakistani state for that matter any other state is just a man made idea. And if you think making fun of it or whining about it is anti state or whatever then you need to expand your understanding.

Without the state you are nothing but a refugee.Athiest poor soul brainwashed to hate own land.

 

[jamal18]

An interesting alternate view.

'Based on our much-improved empirical model, we show, with greater power than previously, that FDI has no significant positive effect on economic growth.'

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00130095.2017.1393312

 

[Jungibaaz]

Sir I do not hold such shallow views. There is a difference between constructive criticism and weaponizing it deliberately for intended purpose to harm the state itself. I know the history of the member and the views he/she carries right from pervaiz hoodboy articles, and the confusion regarding the state itself.

You won’t be surprised to hear this from me, but IMO if you do not allow a legitimate space for even unfair criticism, then that criticism doesn’t disappear, it gets worse and takes all sorts of forms that are outside the reach of the state.

Our history is full of examples of people naively trying to make Pakistanis fill one national mould. One unit nation, Zia era social engineering, disenfranchisement of Bengal, constant political engineering, weakening of provincial autonomy, etc. These are all contentious topics, but history is full of them. Whenever we’ve attempted this, it’s always blown up in our face. Dissidents are annoying sure, but they’re a vital part of any pluralistic society, especially a democracy.

And please allow me to say categorically, that Pakistan is pluralistic by its nature, whether we like it or not. Even something as trivial as geography means people and their outlook will differ. The drought starved man in Thar lives a slightly different reality to the shepherd whose village flooded in the North due to glacial collapse.

Living in the British isles, I can see that there are several nations, cultures, and languages. UK and Ireland despite similar culture and language are separate entities. As a result of the diversity even in the UK, some power is devolved to local assemblies, dissension is allowed to the point that the Scots even today are planning to force another referendum. Nobody bars their movement. Pakistan is FAR FAR more diverse, we’re a much bigger country made up of multiple smaller nations and peoples, we will inevitably have dissenters, thorny political characters, nationalists, ideological outsiders etc.

They must all be allowed to run their course (within the reasonable limits of the law and constitution), giving them no space always causes foreign spoilers to take advantage, agreeable dissidents can become deeply cynical. We should grow a thick skin, Pakistanis will always in the end unite when a common purpose emerges anyway. I may be a bloody liberal, but I also count myself as a patriot who wants the best for my country and people.

 

[Patriot forever]

You won’t be surprised to hear this from me, but IMO if you do not allow a legitimate space for even unfair criticism, then that criticism doesn’t disappear, it gets worse and takes all sorts of forms that are outside the reach of the state.

Our history is full of examples of people naively trying to make Pakistanis fill one national mould. One unit nation, Zia era social engineering, disenfranchisement of Bengal, constant political engineering, weakening of provincial autonomy, etc. These are all contentious topics, but history is full of them. Whenever we’ve attempted this, it’s always blown up in our face. Dissidents are annoying sure, but they’re a vital part of any pluralistic society, especially a democracy.

And please allow me to say categorically, that Pakistan is pluralistic by its nature, whether we like it or not. Even something as trivial as geography means people and their outlook will differ. The drought starved man in Thar lives a slightly different reality to the shepherd whose village flooded in the North due to glacial collapse.

Living in the British isles, I can see that there are several nations, cultures, and languages. UK and Ireland despite similar culture and language are separate entities. As a result of the diversity even in the UK, some power is devolved to local assemblies, dissension is allowed to the point that the Scots even today are planning to force another referendum. Nobody bars their movement. Pakistan is FAR FAR more diverse, we’re a much bigger country made up of multiple smaller nations and peoples, we will inevitably have dissenters, thorny political characters, nationalists, ideological outsiders etc.

They must all be allowed to run their course (within the reasonable limits of the law and constitution), giving them no space always causes foreign spoilers to take advantage, agreeable dissidents can become deeply cynical. We should grow a thick skin, Pakistanis will always in the end unite when a common purpose emerges anyway. I may be a bloody liberal, but I also count myself as a patriot who wants the best for my country and people.

Sir no foreign agency invests in a lost cause, people like these are a direct result of the space given to them. Everyone uses them from politicians to foreign agencies. You let a dog soil your house repeatedly sooner it becomes unbearable to live in. To the contratry such views has provided opening to foreign powers to influence the state.

I liked how you quoted 'propaganda' as 'unfair criticism'.

You tried so hard to legitimate dissent as freedom of expression, but your entire post contradicts this in word and spirit, by denying people like me to respond to them and calling them out foe who they really are.

Before giving us an example of western society and teaching us to act whiter than the whites, one should know that there is no such thing as human rights or freedom of expression, its just a way of enforcing western interests.

A genuine critic never uses propaganda or hypocrisy, rather it becomes a case of someone else agenda and interests.

Learn the difference with all due respect sir. I guess by your definition of dissent there is no such as a traitor in your dictionary, the western languages should not have a word for it then.

 

[StraightEdge]

Without the state you are nothing but a refugee. Athiest poor soul brainwashed to hate own land.

What's wrong being an Atheist? That's a totally personal choice.

 

[Patriot forever]

What's wrong being an Atheist? That's a totally personal choice.

There is nothing wrong with being an athiest, working against a state and its interests, scheming and planning in hand with foreign collaborators for disintegration of state or not accepting the state becomes a problem.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Sir no foreign agency invests in a lost cause, people like these are a direct result of the space given to them. Everyone uses them from politicians to foreign agencies. You let a dog soil your house repeatedly sooner it becomes unbearable to live in. To the contratry such views has provided opening to foreign powers to influence the state.

I liked how you quoted 'propaganda' as 'unfair criticism'.

You tried so hard to legitimate dissent as freedom of expression, but your entire post contradicts this in word and spirit, by denying people like me to respond to them and calling them out foe who they really are.

Who’s denying you? I’m not, I just told you I’m a proponent of dissent. You’re allowed to disagree and vehemently.

Respectfully, it’s not my side of the argument that historically dissolved assemblies, violated the constitution, cracked down upon the other side of the argument, forced judges to renounce their integrity in favour of another cause. Etc.

I’m not saying you can’t respond to people you don’t like, I’m saying you should have the stomach to listen, too often your kind of arguments are used to silence dissent, not the other way around.

Before giving us an example of western society and teaching us to act whiter than the whites,

Your tone is awful. I’m telling you to run a state with some decency and sense, just like our founding father wanted and our constitution promises. If you’d prefer an Iranian like system, or a Chinese system, renounce all of the above openly, let’s not delude ourselves.

A genuine critic never uses propaganda or hypocrisy, rather it becomes a case of someone else agenda and interests.

I don’t deny that at all.

Learn the difference with all due respect sir. I guess by your definition of dissent there is no such as a traitor in your dictionary, the western languages should not have a word for it then.

I added multiple qualifications in my post which you ignored. Such as ‘reasonable’, ‘legal’, ‘constitutional’ etc. Obviously I am not speaking of the extreme case. No country on earth allows absolute free speech. It can’t exist.

 

[Patriot forever]

Who’s denying you? I’m not, I just told you I’m a proponent of dissent. You’re allowed to disagree and vehemently.

Respectfully, it’s not my side of the argument that historically dissolved assemblies, violated the constitution, cracked down upon the other side of the argument, forced judges to renounce their integrity in favour of another cause. Etc.

I’m not saying you can’t respond to people you don’t like, I’m saying you should have the stomach to listen, too often your kind of arguments are used to silence dissent, not the other way around.



Your tone is awful. I’m telling you to run a state with some decency and sense, just like our founding father wanted and our constitution promises. If you’d prefer an Iranian like system, or a Chinese system, renounce all of the above openly, let’s not delude ourselves.




I don’t deny that at all.


I added multiple qualifications in my post which you ignored. Such as ‘reasonable’, ‘legal’, ‘constitutional’ etc. Obviously I am not speaking of the extreme case. No country on earth allows absolute free speech. It can’t exist.

Sir lets agree to disagree.

Your entire viewpoint is hypothetical, and it does not correlate with what actually these so called dissenters are doing on ground.

Gul Bukhari,
Nida Kirmani,
Communist turned erhnofascists, and
countless others.

I will simplify for ease of understanding. The difference between dissent and traitor is where someone loyalties lies, with the country or against the country and in favour of our enemies who want to see our country destroyed.

All i see on ground is hypocrisy and propaganda.