Foreign components in India's ALH (Dhruv)

[Titanium]

If it's the BK117 why hasn't Eurocopter filed a suit against HAL/GoI?

history and description of the Bo 105, EC 135, BK 117, and EC 145 -- and also discusses the Indian HAL Dhruv helicopter, designed with MBB assistance and more or less a scaled-up BK 117.


The resemblance of an army-air force Dhruv to the BK 117 is unmistakeable, though the Dhruv is a bigger machine, with an empty weight about 50% greater than that of the BK 117. Otherwise, the two rotorcraft are very similar, with the Dhruv featuring a pod-&-boom / main-tail rotor configuration, clamshell rear doors, skid landing gear, twin swept tailfins, and a four-blade main rotor. It does differ from the BK 117 in featuring a four-bladed tail rotor.


MBB / Eurocopter Helicopters

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Wolf in disguise

?
Its Donkey in disguise man.............

 

[Titanium]

India will pay for ALH development. MBB will assist in design and development and will market the helicopter outside India. The German
company will also train Indian personnel to produce the helicopter at the Bangalore Complex's Helicopter Division

1984 | 0974 | Flight Archive

There is an overall similarity in
appearance to the smaller MBB BO. 108 and
the ALH's tailplane and rear-fuselage clamshell
doors are characteristic of MBB design
philosophy. The Indians freely admit that the
ALH owes much to the design solution
originally offered by MBB, but say that HAL
engineers have been involved at every stage
of development, at the forefront of its design
and in the testing of the basic helicopter and
its systems.

1990 | 1718 | Flight Archive

 

[Titanium]

Whats a helicopter, but engine, transmission, rotor-blades with a bucket


We know engine is french, transmission is German, who makes the rotor blades???

Eurocopter is the one selling rotor blades

Eurocopter Canada - News 01/31/06 (3)

 

[lhuang]

Eurocopter is the one selling rotor blades

Eurocopter Canada - News 01/31/06 (3)

That's still one helicopter better than Pakistan has done.

 

[Mahakaya]

But it would be dishonest to hide or not admit to the fact that India cannot manufacture the components of a domestically manufactured helicoptor. Not everyone has assembly ability as assembly line is difficult to put together. Does India need foregin assistance to build the assembly line for a helicoptor. Does it have an assembly line?

Have you built any Helicopter independently? If you have then you would know that you do not need to research on everything from scratch. On the contrary if you have not then you would not know - Simple and straight - You have been getting everything from the USofA so lets not comment on who knows what to produce indigenously.

 

[Mahakaya]

I agree. India encounters success if its projects are joint venture such as Brahmos. If its domestic initiative, it had mainly failed miserably. These are good lessons to build upon.

You will also be happy to learn that LCA is not a failure and will be inducted by the end of this year,

The LCH will also be inducted soon with the first flight in some days from now

DHRUV is already a SUCCESS

AND ABOVE ALL - ARJUN JUST COMPLETED THE TRIALS AND HAS PERFORMED BETTER THAN THE T-90S which itself is better than any of YOUR MBTS (i.e. if you have any indigenous ones) or as a matter of fact sources claim it to be better than any CHINESE ONES TOO!

INSAS is used by all forces in INDIA - again if it were 3rd grade it would not have been used by the forces.

Hmmm - DID I LEAVE OUT ANYTHING - ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE AREN'T MANY FAILURES TO COUNT NOW ARE THERE?

ANYHOW DHRUV IS A SUCCESS - Since it won a competition to be awarded with the ORDER - So no point of your RANT and no one has sued us so definitely it is INDIGENOUS

 

[chinapakistan]

AND ABOVE ALL - ARJUN JUST COMPLETED THE TRIALS AND HAS PERFORMED BETTER THAN THE T-90S which itself is better than any of YOUR MBTS (i.e. if you have any indigenous ones) or as a matter of fact sources claim it to be better than any CHINESE ONES TOO!

Any src? Or just BS?

 

[Mahakaya]

India will pay for ALH development. MBB will assist in design and development and will market the helicopter outside India. The German
company will also train Indian personnel to produce the helicopter at the Bangalore Complex's Helicopter Division

1984 | 0974 | Flight Archive

There is an overall similarity in
appearance to the smaller MBB BO. 108 and
the ALH's tailplane and rear-fuselage clamshell
doors are characteristic of MBB design philosophy. The Indians freely admit that the
ALH owes much to the design solution
originally offered by MBB, but say that HAL
engineers have been involved at every stage
of development, at the forefront of its design
and in the testing of the basic helicopter and
its systems.

1990 | 1718 | Flight Archive

You are quoting an 1984 archive or even 1990 I believe the BK117 would have gone through quite a few changes itself in that time frame -

That argument is WEAK at best - The point by the end of it is that DRDO sells it in the open market i.e. international orders, NO MBB guy goes to train the pilots on how to best use DHRUV its the DRDO guys so I am guessing they know the inside out of it - On the other hand the engine is the SHAKTI engine developed by the INDIANS

YES I AGREE THERE can be components on it which may not be Indian - ofcourse we can PRODUCE THEM but don't cos we do not have the comparative advantage - BASIC ECONOMICS - SO WE BUY IT! ITS CHEAPER TO BUY THAN TO PRODUCE ON YOUR OWN IN MANY CASES - THE BASICS OF IMPORTS AND EXPORTS i.e. a field of ECONOMICS if I may remind you.

When we do have a production facility which can churn out the parts in due time we will not buy it and produce it - for anything to become viable it requires mass production in such cases which we clearly dont have and therefore we buy it. This is my take on why there are some things that are not INDIGENOUS on the chopper.

 

[Mahakaya]

Any src? Or just BS?

Here you go!

Broadsword: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: "Arjun In Present Form Can Never Be Our MBT, 2 More Regiments Possible"

Please take time to read this - I am sure you do agree on the T-90S being better than your TYPE-99s currently - If you think otherwise please correct me!

 

[chinapakistan]

Here you go!

Broadsword: Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: "Arjun In Present Form Can Never Be Our MBT, 2 More Regiments Possible"

Please take time to read this - I am sure you do agree on the T-90S being better than your TYPE-99s currently - If you think otherwise please correct me!

I am not sure that, I dont know much about tanks, you should wait the other poster to correct you.
But about the news, "Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90" doesent mean Arjun are better than T-90 in every sector. Runs and guns just two of the sectors to evalue a tank.

 

[lhuang]

I am not sure that, I dont know much about tanks, you should wait the other poster to correct you.
But about the news, "Arjun tank outruns, outguns Russian T-90" doesent mean Arjun are better than T-90 in every sector. Runs and guns just two of the sectors to evalue a tank.

Even so, that is no reason to think the AJ which is what I will call the Arjun from now is superior to the T99. Let's just say they are both good tanks, which is better we will never know until they are in battle, which I hope happens only between exported models.

 

[Bingo!]

so reading everything i get the whole story


DHRUV= BK-117= made in Europe by DRDO = equador and turkey buying from INDiA instead of europe ???

I am waiting for somebody to come with explanation like

DHRUV stands for Denmark,Hungary,Romania,United kingdom and Vatican.

 

[desiman]

Just one look and you know we mean business. Dhruv is one hell of a helicopter.

The four big screens you see are cutler hammer 1700-1755t screens. They are made in the US. Various other parts such as many of electrical parts are from companies such as Omron or ABB. Does that mean that the helicopter is not Indian. If you know anything about manufacturing and procurement, you would know that parts are sourced on the basis of engineering requirements, availability, cost, and quality. Parts can be bought from anywhere but that does not change the make of the product. Now stop with you India bashing as your only making yourself look stupid by doing that.

 

[Titanium]

....and also the hydraulics is from UK

APPH - Hydraulic Systems for Aircraft