Follow IMF or Islam?

 

[Mr.Green]

Green bhai, while Zakat is a nice idea where the citizens are encouraged to partcipate in the welfare of others and Zakat is among the progressive ideas of Islam but especially in South Asia it has just become a socially disconnected religious ritual.

Let's speak practically. Has 75 years of Zakat progressed Pakistan and removed socio-economic disparities from Pakistan ? It is all very well to give Zakat once a year and feel one has done his or her religious obligation but that is what it is, a forced religious obligation disconnected from understanding the social and socio-economic realities. A middle class person's zakat has no effect on the opressed reality of the bonded laborer working in Pakistan's brick kilns or the rural laborer upon whom the feudal sets his dogs. The Capitalist system of Pakistan can keep having zakat for the next 1000 years but that bonded laborer and the other bonded rural laborer will not see a change in their oppressed lives politically and socio-economically. So the middle class person and the upper class person should not just give the zakat once and year and be done with it but speak of total revolution where Pakistan becomes a progressive welfare-based society in entirety with automatic provisions for free housing, free basic food, free electricity, free telecom, free healthcare, free education etc and where all people are equal politically and socio-economically ( please read my proposed systems here and here ). After the new political system and socio-economic system have been established the zakat system should be continued to instill in the citizens the awareness that they should be socially responsible.

Zakat is taken Muslims only. Non-Muslims living under an Islamic government pay Jizya (poll tax). Other forms of taxation that have been collected in Islamic history are Kharaj (land tax), Khums (tax on booty, sudden wealth), Ushur (Customs at state border, sea port, and each city border on goods movement), Kari (house tax) and Chari (Also called maara, pasture tax).

In individual level, we are all Muslim dont give any interest to any one wanting to borrow money from us, usually it is in the form of charity like for our families and friends who are in financial difficulty or if they want to build their small business

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Talking about interest rate for commercial entity like banks, I have stated about SOE banks in which the collector of interest is government and it can be regarded as tax ( Islam allows government to collect tax ( Zakat is similar in substance with tax when gov is the one who collect it like in early Islam ( stated in Quran) , verses about prophet Yusuf I stated in above post )

Talking about IMF, it is due to special circumtances ( situation ), in Islam even we can eat pig meat if it is in emergency situation

Taking loan from IMF and pay the small interest can be regarded as emergency while for countries like Indonesia where we cannot get cheap IMF money and must do it in open market by issuing government bond, it can be regarded as doing some kind of war, economic war. If Muslim countries cannot have good economy, we can be once again colonized like happening in old days. In a war, some thing that is not allowed, is allowed like killing another human ( under strict rule that he must be combatant soldiers and if he surrender we must not kill them )

The IMF loans are not meant for the development of any third world country. They are meant to keep the western hegemony. Why don't they give IMF loans to North Korea? It is understood that a large percentage of these loans are sent back to the west through the use of their own contractors and consultants as well as bribes by politicians find their way back to Swiss Banks. In the Economic Hitman, the author gives an example of Indonesia where large infrastructure loan was given to lure the country into the trap. Most of these infrastructure loans are not needed by the third world countries.

 

[Trango Towers]

I ask you a question, why is House Tax collected every year?


I have read that in Libya, Zakat was collected by the Government.

So u switch looool.. I am not wasting time...

 

[Indos]

Zakat is taken Muslims only. Non-Muslims living under an Islamic government pay Jizya (poll tax). Other forms of taxation that have been collected in Islamic history are Kharaj (land tax), Khums (tax on booty, sudden wealth), Ushur (Customs at state border, sea port, and each city border on goods movement), Kari (house tax) and Chari (Also called maara, pasture tax).


The IMF loans are not meant for the development of any third world country. They are meant to keep the western hegemony. Why don't they give IMF loans to North Korea? It is understood that a large percentage of these loans are sent back to the west through the use of their own contractors and consultants as well as bribes by politicians find their way back to Swiss Banks. In the Economic Hitman, the author gives an example of Indonesia where large infrastructure loan was given to lure the country into the trap. Most of these infrastructure loans are not needed by the third world countries.

LOL who said our infrastructure projects are not needed, the fact is we needs IMF only during 1998-2002, to face Asian Financial Crisis. I am agree that IMF is not some one that wants country like Indonesia to be really independent, but we dont have choice during that time

The infrastructure built during Soeharto, SBY, and Jokowi time dont use IMF money ( only small amount of it ).

Once again another Muslim member believe what Western analyst said while dont see the opinion of Indonesian Muslim economist who understand the need to have good infrastructure for developing nations

So u switch looool.. I am not wasting time...

Said to him, government tax and Zakat is different. Government has I said earlier impose many tax to its citizen while Zakat is actually very small compare to Government tax. Government has land tax for example, collected every year, while Muslim is only obligated to pay Zakat when they get the money/ wealth for the first time, another Zakat for another money, unlike Government tax that can target land and houses and must be paid yearly despite we dont create profit on it

 

[mhosein]

View attachment 844721

The liberal+religious+political elite mafia (JAHILS) will tell you that IMF is a Saint and that "we have to feed our hungry (translation loot and plunder to fill their bank accounts) and that our economy has to run (land grabs, oppress the weak and establish Luxury Estates like Raiwind).

These same liberal-religious-political elite mafia will argue that IMF is the only way out. In reality, what they're saying that IMF is the only way they can loot and plunder Pakistan's wealth, since it comes with the blessings of the West. Whereas the same cannot be done if Pakistan were to take loans from AIIB, the Chinese mean business and that means no looting and plundering for these parasitic scum.

If Pakistanis were to EVER BOTHER studying and implementing ISLAM. Then Islam will tell Pakistan to stop all loan activities from all sources. Why? Because Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah has clearly declared Riba to be HARAM. Riba is anything that you earn which does not constitute your hard work, risk and capital. Riba includes Stock Exchange (speculative transaction is Haram), Credit Cards (Interest Payments - Haram), Mortgages (Interest Payments - Haram), Car Financing (Interest Payments - Haram), Business Loans (Risk is entirely the burden of the borrower plus interest - Haram) Personal Loans (Risk is entirely the burden of the borrower plus interest - Haram). A person who consumes off Riba, the sin is equivalent to a man marrying his own mother. And Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam stated that all four types of individuals are EQUALLY GUILTY, the one who lends, the one who borrows, the recorder of transactions and the witness to the transaction.

Question is to Pakistanis, who will you listen to? The parastic scum that have destroyed Pakistan, looted its wealth, worship the West, proclaim to be enlightened yet are JAHILS .... OR ..... would you Pakistanis listen to Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam, who brought with Him the Noble Qur'an and above all, Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah?

 

[jamahir]

I have read that in Libya, Zakat was collected by the Government.

Possible. I don't know that for certain but you may be right.

Zakat is taken Muslims only. Non-Muslims living under an Islamic government pay Jizya (poll tax). Other forms of taxation that have been collected in Islamic history are Kharaj (land tax), Khums (tax on booty, sudden wealth), Ushur (Customs at state border, sea port, and each city border on goods movement), Kari (house tax) and Chari (Also called maara, pasture tax).

Zakat should not be called a tax because "tax" evokes a negative idea. Zakat is really a social obligation and social awareness. The other actual taxes should not exist including house tax and land tax. We are not living under feudalism and monarchy to be extorted using something called tax. In the Capitalist world including India, Pakistan and USA we pay tax for even basic things like house, food, water and electricity. In India not only does the government does not provide free housing it then proceeds to extort yearly tax from the citizens who build the house from their own money. And how can someone tax something from Nature as water ? Does a cat or a bird pay someone tax to drink wate ? Aren't all these taxes unjust and just ridiculous ?

 

[Mr.Green]

Possible. I don't know that for certain but you may be right.



Zakat should not be called a tax because "tax" evokes a negative idea. Zakat is really a social obligation and social awareness. The other actual taxes should not exist including house tax and land tax. We are not living under feudalism and monarchy to be extorted using something called tax. In the Capitalist world including India, Pakistan and USA we pay tax for even basic things like house, food, water and electricity. In India not only does the government does not provide free housing it then proceeds to extort yearly tax from the citizens who build the house from their own money. And how can someone tax something from Nature as water ? Does a cat or a bird pay someone tax to drink wate ? Aren't all these taxes unjust and just ridiculous ?

In Pakistan the safest and highest yielding investment is buying plots and houses. If a person has more than one house or plot, he should be taxed for it,

 

[jamahir]

In Pakistan the safest and highest yielding investment is buying plots and houses. If a person has more than one house or plot, he should be taxed for it,

You are partly right and partly wrong. You are right to the extent that no person should have a house in excess of his immediate need because that would be depriving another person of a house. Rich people have farm houses and multiple houses in various cities and greedy middle class people "invest" in property constructing stupidly formed houses in the hope of getting rent from various houses they own. This is wrong. These two exist while so many poor people either live in slums or cramped houses or rickety house or are straightaway homeless. So some people owning multiple houses while many being homeless. This is injustice and irrational.

Now instead of taxing multiple houses, the governance system should eliminate the concept of tax itself and make it compulsory for a person or a family to not have access to more than one house at one time. Also, it should be the governance system to provide housing for free because a house is a human right that should not be given in exchange for money because that would be unnatural and irrational. North Korea provides free housing and Libyan Jamahiriya provided it and during the early years of the Libyan revolution of 1969 homeless Libyans or those living in tin shacks had the right to occupy houses which were in excess to what some people owned.

 

[AZMwi]

Zakat is voluntarily action which actually not that high,

Tax is not un-Islamic, it is way to help the country, similar like the way we have to raise our swords/rifle when we face a war. See economy as some kind of war as well, as if your economy is in bad shape, your chance to win any war if some country attack you will be smaller

If God ask us to fight the invader that can cost us live, so why tax is forbidden and un- Islamic ??????

Zakat is compulsory/mandatory for the wealthy. First righteous caliph of ISLAM Hazrat AbuBakar R.A fought against those who refused to pay zakat. It's a very important pillar of Islam

 

[Indos]

Zakat is compulsory/mandatory for the wealthy. First righteous caliph of ISLAM Hazrat AbuBakar R.A fought against those who refused to pay zakat. It's a very important pillar of Islam

Read again the context and what I have explained. I said Voluntarily in the context on collection. It is mandatory for all Muslim who is eligible but my position is that in term of collection, it is voluntarily, I mean people who dont pay Zakat will get sin, while those who pay will get good deeds.

Government hand should not reach this matter. This is private things, similar like praying, wearing hijab and others. There is no punishment written in Quran verses regarding person who dont pay Zakat as it is directly related to God, different with shariah law talking about killing, Zina, stealing and others which requires Government hands in term of establishing the courts and forcing the punishment.

About my position that Government should not impose it to their citizen is in my other posts where I have explained it quite clearly.

I want to explain a little bit of Why Abu Bakar fought the one who refuse to pay Zakat ? It is similar like if rich Indonesians refuse to pay tax, they will be put in jailed or paying huge fine. In the beginning of Islam, there is no taxation yet, actually Zakat is regarded as tax to make the administration function. Region who refuse to pay Zakat during Abu Bakar period is similar like becoming a separatist region.

Zakat in modern day is more toward helping other people, while government can still run with the money coming from tax

 

[randaam janmam]

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

[AZMwi]

Read again the context and what I have explained. I said Voluntarily in the context on collection. It is mandatory for all Muslim who is eligible but my position is that in term of collection, it is voluntarily, I mean people who dont pay Zakat will get sin, while those who pay will get good deeds.

Government hand should not reach this matter. This is private things, similar like praying, wearing hijab and others. There is no punishment written in Quran verses regarding person who dont pay Zakat as it is directly related to God, different with shariah law talking about killing, Zina, stealing and others which requires Government hands in term of establishing the courts and forcing the punishment.

About my position that Government should not impose it to their citizen is in my other posts where I have explained it quite clearly.

I want to explain a little bit of Why Abu Bakar fought the one who refuse to pay Zakat ? It is similar like if rich Indonesians refuse to pay tax, they will be put in jailed or paying huge fine. In the beginning of Islam, there is no taxation yet, actually Zakat is regarded as tax to make the administration function. Region who refuse to pay Zakat during Abu Bakar period is similar like becoming a separatist region.

Zakat in modern day is more toward helping other people, while government can still run with the money coming from tax

When Hazrat Abu Bakr R.A was elected Caliph some Arab tribes declined to pay Zakat by saying: “We used to give Zakat to Muhammad. But now Muhammad is no more, and hence we are not obliged to give Zakat.” Some of them renounced Islam while others did not but refused to pay Zakat. Some senior companions of the Prophet (pbuh), including Umar Bin Khattab, were against being tough on this matter so as not to cause Islamic society to disintegrate and lose its strength. But the Caliph Abu Bakr was firm and tough on this issue. He considered those who refused to pay Zakat as apostates, and in this respect, there was a famous saying of Abu Bakr: “By Allah, if they withhold the rope of a camel they used to give in Zakat to Allah’s Messenger, I will fight them for it.”

Surah At-Tawbah verse 103:

"خُذْ مِنْ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ صَدَقَةًۭ تُطَهِّرُهُمْ وَتُزَكِّيهِم بِهَا وَصَلِّ عَلَيْهِمْ ۖ إِنَّ صَلَوٰتَكَ سَكَنٌۭ لَّهُمْ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ"

(O Prophet)! "Take alms out of their riches and thereby cleanse them and bring about their growth (in righteousness), and pray for them. Indeed your prayer is a source of tranquillity for them." Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

This proves that it is mandatory for the Islamic govt to collect zakat and distribute it among the poor. Sadaqah on the other hand is a private matter. it is not mandatory.

 

[ARMalik]

Do u have a bank account? If yes then u are in the system. You are at war against Allah

I do not take any interest from my Bank account, and I keep minimum in Banks. There is only one true Currency and it is called Gold.

 

[Trango Towers]

I do not take any interest from my Bank account, and I keep minimum in Banks. There is only one true Currency and it is called Gold.

See how cleverly you replied.

You have a bank account so u are in the system. The system that deal in haram. I am not judging you.

Point is for 1500 years Muslims have been asleep taking rubbish about haram bidda bal bla bla like what you are but in 1500 years you couldn't come up with a building where u can out your money in a halal way. Why?

Sorry but you are part of the system. Your money is invested by the bank on companies like playboy and breweries etc. That same money is leant out on interest so you cannot hide behind I do not take interest.

Plus what is the difference between Interest and riba. How do u cater for inflation?

When u don't have the basis or foundations correct don't have opinions and preach.

Sorry in advance...my intention is nit to offend but show u how we Muslims spend lives talking shit and doing nothing

 

[Indos]

When Hazrat Abu Bakr R.A was elected Caliph some Arab tribes declined to pay Zakat by saying: “We used to give Zakat to Muhammad. But now Muhammad is no more, and hence we are not obliged to give Zakat.” Some of them renounced Islam while others did not but refused to pay Zakat. Some senior companions of the Prophet (pbuh), including Umar Bin Khattab, were against being tough on this matter so as not to cause Islamic society to disintegrate and lose its strength. But the Caliph Abu Bakr was firm and tough on this issue. He considered those who refused to pay Zakat as apostates, and in this respect, there was a famous saying of Abu Bakr: “By Allah, if they withhold the rope of a camel they used to give in Zakat to Allah’s Messenger, I will fight them for it.”

Surah At-Tawbah verse 103:

"خُذْ مِنْ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ صَدَقَةًۭ تُطَهِّرُهُمْ وَتُزَكِّيهِم بِهَا وَصَلِّ عَلَيْهِمْ ۖ إِنَّ صَلَوٰتَكَ سَكَنٌۭ لَّهُمْ ۗ وَٱللَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ"

(O Prophet)! "Take alms out of their riches and thereby cleanse them and bring about their growth (in righteousness), and pray for them. Indeed your prayer is a source of tranquillity for them." Allah is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

This proves that it is mandatory for the Islamic govt to collect zakat and distribute it among the poor. Sadaqah on the other hand is a private matter. it is not mandatory.

See again my previous post. Abu Bakar is human, he is not God, not even prophet. See my previous post and I explain this with context.

 

[Mr.Green]

See how cleverly you replied.

You have a bank account so u are in the system. The system that deal in haram. I am not judging you.

Point is for 1500 years Muslims have been asleep taking rubbish about haram bidda bal bla bla like what you are but in 1500 years you couldn't come up with a building where u can out your money in a halal way. Why?

Sorry but you are part of the system. Your money is invested by the bank on companies like playboy and breweries etc. That same money is leant out on interest so you cannot hide behind I do not take interest.

Plus what is the difference between Interest and riba. How do u cater for inflation?

When u don't have the basis or foundations correct don't have opinions and preach.

Sorry in advance...my intention is nit to offend but show u how we Muslims spend lives talking shit and doing nothing

U r acting like a troll here. Whats is your problem? If you don't believe, its your choice but don't make simple people doubt their religion.