Flying MiG violates right to life: Officer

[DESERT FIGHTER]

The issue is age of airframes,not quality of it.Bison is quite capable of easily dealing with f-7,its primary designated threat type.

A look at indian crash record will make u think again on the whole issue..

Incase u didn't notice some of ur older airframes have also started to crash and burn.

Yes but not as often .. not even close to iaf crashes...

 

[MilSpec]

Pa ji looking at the history of iaf crashes... its either bad pilots or really bad jets....

It's neither, It's mis managed extremely old air frames not grounded. I dont blame the mig 21fl and s variants's they were extremely good interceptors, but they should have been retired 10 years ago. Bis/Bison upgrade newer airframes will run out of juice in next 5 years.

Poor training is again a fruit of mismanagement, lack of advanced jet trainers is a bane Indian pilots had to face for a while, that situation is rapidly changing but not fast enough.

from the op's post, this seems to be a engine failure. Mig 21 FL, S series need to be grounded, if that is not possible then atleast all air-frames need to go through us-ndt for stress fractures and Engine inspections.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

IAF has policy stated by ex air force chief-
''i would rather lose pilots in peace than in war''.
This means IAF continues to clock high flight hours [180-230 for normal,250+ for sukhoi top guns] with older platforms that have been stretched waaay beyond there service lives.This is a risk taken knowingly by IAF command knowing there is a price,but pilot quality doesn't drop due to high flying hrs.
Other causes of crashes are birdstrikes,spares issue[either bad russian spares or faulty HAL engeering..though this issue has mostly been solved lately] and FBW system malfunction[cause of MKI crashes]

I bet he didnt literally mean tht... no sane country wants to lose pilots... also most of times i read indian govt blaming the pilots instead of the aircraft? anyways... the flying hours u quoted are not too unique... professional airforce pilots have the same flying hours...

Also do provide a source for th flying hour thing.. thanks in advance..

 

[skysthelimit]

I don't think IAF or HAL is to blame - The problem is that the MIGs are way past their shelf lives but IAF has no replacement aircrafts to make up.
So IAF has to ask pilots to risk their lives by going up in the "flying coffins" and all the maintenance HAL can do will go only so far to reduce crash rates.
The real people to blame are succesive governments and their pet babus who delayed the procurement of MMRCA for decades.

 

[Shaped charge]

Damned bureaucratic red tape has cost us a lot of fine pilots and tarnished the legacy of a once potent aircraft

 

[MilSpec]

I don't think IAF or HAL is to blame - The problem is that the MIGs are way past their shelf lives but IAF has no replacement aircrafts to make up.
So IAF has to ask pilots to risk their lives by going up in the "flying coffins" and all the maintenance HAL can do will go only so far to reduce crash rates.
The real people to blame are succesive governments and their pet babus who delayed the procurement of MMRCA for decades.

I dis agree and I think IAF's feet, need to be held to fire. It was IAF and MoD that hedged it's future against the LCA project without proper funding, support and changing the Air staff hq requirements as often as they could. They were willing to release money for heavily overprices AJT's, lift helicopters and since 1997 to 2004 underutilized their allotted funds consistently. For stop gap measure they could have procured or leased RuAF mig 29's, or ordered additional mig 29 or M2K's.

Additionally suspect older air-frames should have gone through safety screening protocols before deeming them airworthy.
There is no excuse for IAF to let their pilots fly in unsafe air frames, the pilot training costs more than that aircraft, hence IAF needs to be held accountable for Mig 21 incidents.

 

[Ayush]

where is LCA??

 

[MilSpec]

where is LCA??

being delayed by implicit actions of MoD and IAF brass, to ensure they can keep importing foreign equipment...

 

[sancho]

On an bigger picture, If LCA was going to face delays, IAF should/could have ordered m2k or m29 as interim solution which they didn't.

Actually they tried anything to do that, but they couldn't. The optional M2Ks and later the Qatari M2Ks were too expensive, the M2K-5 which they prefered in the initial MRCA compeition, went out of production and I'm sure that they would like to get more Rafales of the shelf too, but GoI and especially HAL obviously will remain with maximum production in India.

 

[MilSpec]

Actually they tried anything to do that, but they couldn't. The optional M2Ks and later the Qatari M2Ks were too expensive, the M2K-5 which they prefered in the initial MRCA compeition, went out of production and I'm sure that they would like to get more Rafales of the shelf too, but GoI and especially HAL obviously will remain with maximum production in India.

Again not true, Indo-Russian Aviation Limited (IRAL) had brokered/proposed additional lease on 40 Mig 29 and additional 55 mig 29's in 1997 which was rejected by IAF.

LCA was a brainchild of Airforce and MoD, in essence IAF invented a crisis and then kept complaining they are facing delays due to LCA. the Delays in LCA from beginning are built in by IAF and MoD + incompetence of all involved parties.

 

[sancho]

Again not true, Indo-Russian Aviation Limited (IRAL) had brokered/proposed additional lease on 40 Mig 29 and additional 55 mig 29's in 1997 which was rejected by IAF.

I was talking about additional Mirage fighters they wanted, the Migs had more than enough issues on their own and it's not surprising that IAF didn't wanted more of them. It's like getting 1 problem instead of another.

Anyway, I'm out Gn8 mate!

 

[fast]

What is this man talking about? The mig is doing great work.

 

[Abingdonboy]

First thing's first- when you put on a uniform/enroll you sign away many of your legal and basic rights and danger is what you are signing up for.


Having said that, a military person is not being unreasonable if they expect not to be killed in training missions. But then fast jet aviation is inherently dangerous and the first thing a fighter jock plugs into is their parachute on getting in a cockpit. And no one can question the MIG-21's/27's just appalling flight safety record for the past 2 decades.


The upside is that last year (2012) the IAF recorded the safest year it has EVER had wrt flight safety/crash rate and there is a definite positive trend on this front.


With all the MIG-21s/27s being phased out within the 5-6 years and being replaced by far safer and newer jets as well as existing platofrms being upgraded (M2K and Mig-29), things are looking good for the future.



It is a tragedy that so many young men have died in such a manner though- RIP aviators.

the flying hours u quoted are not too unique... professional airforce pilots have the same flying hours...

Also do provide a source for th flying hour thing.. thanks in advance..

The flying hours being done on the MKI (200-250+) is something pretty spectacular it has to be said.

 

[Nishan_101]

So any replacement plan. I want to know what is the role of MKI, Mirages and Jaguars along with MiG-29s along Chinese border.

 

[LiberalAtheist]

I thought that so called LCA was going to replace the Mig's and you guys still haven't finalized anything with the french yet on Rafales.... looks like IAF is desperate to get day to day operations by.