First Sikh Army Officer

[Donatello]

ADC is a Captain for a Corps Commander.

As a cadet....

I've met lots of ADCs to Corps Commander(s) who were rank of Major.

 

[Thirdfront]

War cry is just a minor example of how religious references are part of Indian army. You need to change a lot in your army before asking Pakistan to change its motto.

Nope... We have something for everyone. That is why we don't only one (or two) minority officer(s)... PA needs to decide whether they want minority participation or keep their religious motto.... And on top of that, saying minority is not joining up as they are not interested in PA, well excuse them for not wanting get abused, even more...

It seems only you understand the meaning of motto and all those non-Muslims serving in Pakistani security forces need to be re-oriented by you to understand how horrible the armed forces have been to them.

You keep on harping on the same old in both your posts. Pakistan is an Islamic republic as I have said. The motto is representative of that. Contrary to your ill informed claim "an organization which is heavily biased against minorities", well what is your proof that it is heavily biased? Do you know first hand that people are rejected because they are non-Muslim? Don't tell me about bias, I have seen the recruitment process up close. Extra weight is given to those representing minorities, motto not withstanding and most applying could care less about the motto which represents the religious values of the majority. Pakistan, in all reality, is not a secular country so what you are trying to get across here about the motto means very little. It used to be "Men who serve, men who command." and now this Iman, Taqwa one. Perhaps it may change again. However what has not changed is the Army's recruitment policies of leaving the door wide open for minorities.

The constitution of the country clearly states that Pakistan's state religion is Islam. Does that mean everyone has to become a Muslim? No. The very same constitution also allows non-Muslims to be part of the government and allows them to join the armed forces. Perhaps the motto discourages the minorities, but it is also a reflection of the aspirations of the majority.


You are patently wrong. The motto is not against anyone. Its a reflection of the majority sentiment. You need to understand that Pakistan is not a secular country. Once you get that, then you can perhaps move beyond this point. The reality is that at least in the service, this is a non-issue. One can debate all day and night the issues around Islamic state vs. secularism etc., but I'd rather deal with the ground realities.


Indian Muslims are 14% or so of the population. Their numbers in the Indian Armed forces are nowhere close to representing that. I can guarantee the same for all other minorities there, inclusive motto or not.

I asked a simple question. If some organisation has big bold letters that they don't want you, it doesn't matter how other process are designed.... no one can say you are not joining that organization as you are not interested.... Since PA motto is serving Allah, why would some one who don't want that want to join it? Your dishonesty come from the very fact that all visible signs of current PA screams Islam and minorities are blamed "not interested". As for as India not having enough muslims in it's armed forces, it atleast has more than one muslim officer and any non-participation is not due to inherent religious bias...... there are many other even smaller minorities (non-hindu) who have much more representation stands testimonial to this.....

 

[Jf Thunder]

Good to see another Kashmiri here. And u will be happy to know im also Kashmiri from Bagh City AJK. But as a Kashmiri i would rather die then put my flag as indian.

Regarding rest, well lets leave it.

dude he is not Kashmiri, India posing as one, he was trolling in the other thread, dunt mind him

 

[farhan_9909]

And why no hindus in the army?

A couple of months back browsing the Bannu pages on facebook i saw a guy with hindu name commenting on a post.When i browsed his profile i thought he would be indian but found out that he's a Pakistani and from bannu but now has left for india.

Upon browsing his profile and watching his love for defending Pakistan and the indians calling him oye banuwal aur ****.It made me so sad and felt shameful that the Hindu guy sitting in india was defending Pakistan among his friends and we are responsible for his departure to india.

we need to work for the uplift of hindus in pakistan and if possible bring back the hindus gone to india back into Pakistan

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Indian Muslims are 14% or so of the population. Their numbers in the Indian Armed forces are nowhere close to representing that. I can guarantee the same for all other minorities there, inclusive motto or not.

Well sikh's are 1.4% of population, but they are almost made 40% of Army, Indian is only place for performers and not for week people, Thats why 1.4% sikh's don't seek any minority welfare scheme while 14% muslims seeks.in UK also Indian are far better then Muslims their.

What all the is tell?

And why no hindus in the army?

A couple of months back browsing the Bannu pages on facebook i saw a guy with hindu name commenting on a post.When i browsed his profile i thought he would be indian but found out that he's a Pakistani and from bannu but now has left for india.

Upon browsing his profile and watching his love for defending Pakistan and the indians calling him oye banuwal aur ****.It made me so sad and felt shameful that the Hindu guy sitting in india was defending Pakistan among his friends and we are responsible for his departure to india.

we need to work for the uplift of hindus in pakistan and if possible bring back the hindus gone to india back into Pakistan

Simple is , No Muslims or country ready to accept any other religion. if they had their way they kill every other religion people, this is true muslims ideology 99.99 %. Exception everywhere.

 

[OrionHunter]

I've met lots of ADCs to Corps Commander(s) who were rank of Major.

In the IA, there are no majors as ADCs, only captains. ADCs for the President are of a different rank structure.

The Army will soon have women officers as ADCs to Div, Corps and Army commanders. Two Army commanders are retiring in June and their successors will have women ADCs.

 

[VelocuR]

And why no hindus in the army?

A couple of months back browsing the Bannu pages on facebook i saw a guy with hindu name commenting on a post.When i browsed his profile i thought he would be indian but found out that he's a Pakistani and from bannu but now has left for india.

Upon browsing his profile and watching his love for defending Pakistan and the indians calling him oye banuwal aur ****.It made me so sad and felt shameful that the Hindu guy sitting in india was defending Pakistan among his friends and we are responsible for his departure to india.

we need to work for the uplift of hindus in pakistan and if possible bring back the hindus gone to india back into Pakistan

Not possible, Hindus need prove their loyalty to Pakistan. High risk and lengthy process.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

\

And why no hindus in the army?

A couple of months back browsing the Bannu pages on facebook i saw a guy with hindu name commenting on a post.When i browsed his profile i thought he would be indian but found out that he's a Pakistani and from bannu but now has left for india.

Upon browsing his profile and watching his love for defending Pakistan and the indians calling him oye banuwal aur ****.It made me so sad and felt shameful that the Hindu guy sitting in india was defending Pakistan among his friends and we are responsible for his departure to india.

we need to work for the uplift of hindus in pakistan and if possible bring back the hindus gone to india back into Pakistan

There are many hindus in Pak military.....

Not possible, Hindus need prove their loyalty to Pakistan. High risk and lengthy process.

Thank God you are canadian...

 

[Abingdonboy]

and commanding his country's army one day

Can a Sikh or any other minority be the COAS in the PA?

That's a crazy response. Why would it be too much to ask that an officer of your Army become a general one day??? We have Pakistani-Americans commanding our warships (or at least a couple that I know of) and serving in our military. We have Indian doctors all over the country and Chinese scientists (just to name a few fields with minorities in them on the same level as others or locals if you will).
Also, you said "our" constitution.....you mean the Sikh officer doesn't believe follow your constitution? He is a citizen of Pakistan.....and a proud officer of your respected army. Your constitutions is "his" constitution also. And constitutions should treat its citizens equally. So yes, I hope that this young man has the talent to be a general of his country's military one day or at least rise up to the top. Wasn't one of your chief justice Hindu???? Why are you answering in such a strange way and making your country look bad to the readers when you already have diversity....?

You don't seem to understand, Paksitan by name is the Islamic republic of Pakistan. It was carved out of India as a place for the Sub-continent's Muslims and its constitution reflects this. Whilst in India the constitution from day one defined India as a secular nation free for all Indians to do as they pleased, Pakistan never had such equality for all its citizens. Today the constitution of Pakistan prevents Pakistanis who aren't Muslim from attaining many senior posts- PM, President etc.


I agree it is nuts to expect a soldier to fight for their nation and swear allegiance to a constitution that inherently discriminates them. I don't understand the mentality of a soldier who would be okay laying down his life for a nation who inherently sees them as inferior. But that's just me, I can't comment on the mentality of anyone else. Good luck to this Sadar all the same.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

If you believe people join something solely on the basis of motto then you have a thing or two coming your way. The motto is an Islamic one because Pakistan is an Islamic Republic. However Pakistani Armed forces cannot bar any minority because article 39 of the constitution obviously outweighs any motto and neither are they a proselytizing entity. The workings inside of the armed forces are a professional affair. Discussions around religion, like the fairer sex and politics in formal settings, are still frowned upon because within the Army, the outlook is very nationalistic and this has not changed.

One needs to be able to see this up close to understand. Our Christian and minority officers join in the Islamic rituals just the same as those of us who have been to convent schools and participated in non-Muslim/Christian customs. Within the service, there is no discrimination against the minorities. Its one thing to read about issues pertaining to Pakistan in the newspapers, and an entirely other experiencing it first hand. The reality is that things can always be better for our minorities and there is no denying that. However the inclusion of minorities in greater numbers in the armed forces is showing an upward trajectory.

Dont bother with him. He is a troll.

 

[nomi007]

hope more sikh brothers will join pakistan armed forces in future

 

[waz]

Well sikh's are 1.4% of population, but they are almost made 40% of Army, Indian is only place for performers and not for week people, Thats why 1.4% sikh's don't seek any minority welfare scheme while 14% muslims seeks.in UK also Indian are far better then Muslims their.

They make up 40% the army, even now? I'm not sure that is the case. Do you have any links.

Simple is , No Muslims or country ready to accept any other religion. if they had their way they kill every other religion people, this is true muslims ideology 99.99 %. Exception everywhere.

You post is off-topic and very offensive. Plenty of Muslim countries have sizeable non-Muslim minorities that are well integrated and live happily e.g. Malaysia, Jordan, Turkey, Sierra Leone etc. All these states have a far better record at treating their minorities than your own country.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

And why no hindus in the army?

A couple of months back browsing the Bannu pages on facebook i saw a guy with hindu name commenting on a post.When i browsed his profile i thought he would be indian but found out that he's a Pakistani and from bannu but now has left for india.

Upon browsing his profile and watching his love for defending Pakistan and the indians calling him oye banuwal aur ****.It made me so sad and felt shameful that the Hindu guy sitting in india was defending Pakistan among his friends and we are responsible for his departure to india.

we need to work for the uplift of hindus in pakistan and if possible bring back the hindus gone to india back into Pakistan

Sikh and Hindu officers usher in a new era in Pakistani Army | SikhNet

there are hindus in army and navy.

Can a Sikh or any other minority be the COAS in the PA?


You don't seem to understand, Paksitan by name is the Islamic republic of Pakistan. It was carved out of India as a place for the Sub-continent's Muslims and its constitution reflects this. Whilst in India the constitution from day one defined India as a secular nation free for all Indians to do as they pleased, Pakistan never had such equality for all its citizens. Today the constitution of Pakistan prevents Pakistanis who aren't Muslim from attaining many senior posts- PM, President etc.


I agree it is nuts to expect a soldier to fight for their nation and swear allegiance to a constitution that inherently discriminates them. I don't understand the mentality of a soldier who would be okay laying down his life for a nation who inherently sees them as inferior. But that's just me, I can't comment on the mentality of anyone else. Good luck to this Sadar all the same.

This is why yr not one of us.

 

[Areesh]

I don't understand the mentality of a soldier who would be okay laying down his life for a nation who inherently sees them as inferior. But that's just me, I can't comment on the mentality of anyone else. Good luck to this Sadar all the same.

Well if you can't understand this mentality then ask any Muslim Indian soldier about it? Why are you questioning @orangzaib about it?

Nope... We have something for everyone. That is why we don't only one (or two) minority officer(s)... PA needs to decide whether they want minority participation or keep their religious motto.... And on top of that, saying minority is not joining up as they are not interested in PA, well excuse them for not wanting get abused, even more...

It is actually you are confused about what you want to be? A secular state or a hindu nationalist state. This confusion exists in your military too. With so much religious references I am pretty sure any muslim soldier would feel extremely uncomfortable in working in Indian military. PA can keep its motto as motto can be interpreted in several manners unlike open religious references which exist in Indian army.

 

[waz]

Nowadays it's 15% Sikh according to estimates. Not because Sikhs are joining less but because more groups are joining. In the old days the Indian army would recruit in areas with "martial races" such as Punjab, Haryana and Rajasthan for Sikhs, Gurkhas and Rajputs etc but now they are recruiting all over India so the percentage has gone down.

Thanks for the conformation.