First of Two Self-Propelled Pzh2000 Howitzers Arrive In Lithuania From Germany

[Zarvan]

Pzh2000 Howitzers arrived to Lithuania on Thursday (Image: Lithuanian MoD)
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The first two of the 155 mm self-propelled PzH2000 (Panzerhaubitze 2000) howitzers the Lithuanian Armed Forces have acquired from the Bundeswehr were brought to Lithuania Thursday.

Under a contract signed last September the Lithuanian Armed Forces bought from the German Armed Forces 16 155mm self-propelled howitzers for combat purposes, and 5 for training and spare parts.

By the same contract the Lithuanian Armed Forces also acquired 26 M577 V2 armoured command vehicles and 6 BPZ2 recovery tanks -- 53 pieces of materiel in total. The contract also s includes training for the Lithuanian soldiers and support for technical maintenance arrangements, Lithuanian Ministry of Defense said in a statement Thursday.

The rest of the equipment is planned to arrive in Lithuania by 2019.

Lithuanian soldiers will soon start training to master the newly received advanced and particularly capable equipment and the first shots are expected to be fired within several months at Exercise Flaming Thunder.

Efficient fire support is one of the key priorities of the Lithuanian Armed Forces, and it is exactly what the procurement of one of the world’s most advanced artillery equipment for maneuver units enables. Acquisition of self-propelled howitzers is a quality leap in fire support in the Lithuanian Armed Forces. The equipment will give a substantial boost to the capability of the Lithuanian Armed Forces and open up new opportunities of operational planning and execution.

The new purchase of the Lithuanian Armed Forces will be used by General Romualdas Giedraitis Artillery Battalion of the Mechanised Infantry Brigade Iron Wolf based in Rukla.

The Battalion currently operates 105mm howitzers with effective range of 11 kilometres, while the new PzH2000 self-propelled howitzers will enable it to destroy targets at the range of 40 km.

German representatives have already finished training Lithuanians who will responsible for the maintenance and servicing of the equipment, as well as crews serving the artillery system and the personnel planning operations. After the training in Germany, the Lithuanian troops will transfer the experience of employing the PzH2000 to Lithuanian colleagues.


http://www.defenseworld.net/news/16...Arrive_In_Lithuania_From_Germany#.V2_bWyNRXqA

 

[Arsalan]

Would love PA to have these,,
Sad that these are too damn expensive and we will look for other options and also relay on the current hardware (which are no joke by the way)

 

[Zarvan]

Would love PA to have these,,
Sad that these are too damn expensive and we will look for other options and also relay on the current hardware (which are no joke by the way)

I would also love to see these but even if we can afford it, buying weapons from Germany is risky. They have habbit of raising that human rights crap. But we can make something similar

 

[Arsalan]

I would also love to see these but even if we can afford it, buying weapons from Germany is risky. They have habbit of raising that human rights crap. But we can make something similar

We should!
And this is something where ToT or even RnD will make sense as well as they can then form the bulk of our artillery forces! Anyway, since it is not on the cards right now what can one say.

I am waiting for that private conversation, do send me a message as there are certain things i would like to talk to you about.

 

[somebozo]

Germany arming Lithuania?
Do i see a repeat of WW2?

 

[Sage]

We should!
And this is something where ToT or even RnD will make sense as well as they can then form the bulk of our artillery forces! Anyway, since it is not on the cards right now what can one say.

I am waiting for that private conversation, do send me a message as there are certain things i would like to talk to you about.

Germany ditched Pakistan over the Submarines deal ....That was the last nail in the coffin ...Bye Bye Gerries ...!

 

[Arsalan]

Germany ditched Pakistan

That is just one part of the story.

Plus i am not saying that we should go for this particular system. My response was to "something similar" remark.
lolz, anyway, thanks for pointing it out again and i hope more people will understand this now. Else i fear that people may start opening threads about Pakistan army buying PHZ2000 and the reasons be like "It starts with a "P" "

 

[Blue Marlin]

That is just one part of the story.

Plus i am not saying that we should go for this particular system. My response was to "something similar" remark.
lolz, anyway, thanks for pointing it out again and i hope more people will understand this now. Else i fear that people may start opening threads about Pakistan army buying PHZ2000 and the reasons be like "It starts with a "P" "

i thought pakistan scrapped the deal ?

 

[Sage]

That is just one part of the story.

Plus i am not saying that we should go for this particular system. My response was to "something similar" remark.
lolz, anyway, thanks for pointing it out again and i hope more people will understand this now. Else i fear that people may start opening threads about Pakistan army buying PHZ2000 and the reasons be like "It starts with a "P" "

Yes ...to me it's a news that we don't have anything similar like this ...I thought that we do have that Turkish artillery system ...
To be true ...Merkel had no issue with Pakistan ...Her ministers however did not like us ...more than that it was strange to know that France also did not want to sell us their Submarines ...Thanks God ...Chinese make everything including Subs ...

 

[Arsalan]

Yes ...to me it's a news that we don't have anything similar like this ...I thought that we do have that Turkish artillery system ...
To be true ...Merkel had no issue with Pakistan ...Her ministers however did not like us ...more than that it was strange to know that France also did not want to sell us their Submarines ...Thanks God ...Chinese make everything including Subs ...

There was that "Human Rights" excuse as well. Anyway, a SP howitzer is not something i would really sweat on, there are so many excellent options out there plus so many avenues that can be explored.

As for the current systems, we do have the M109A2/A5 and those are no joke either

 

[Sage]

There was that "Human Rights" excuse as well. Anyway, a SP howitzer is not something i would really sweat on, there are so many excellent options out there plus so many avenues that can be explored.

As for the current systems, we do have the M109A2/A5 and those are no joke either

Yes I was referring to the M109A2 (US made)...We should have something like this indigenously ...there are countries who can assist us in such ventures ...
There is some missing link I am sure ...that is the reason why the upper echelon has not started projects which should have been started long ago ...We are in limbo on almost everything ....whether it is to procure a fighter plane, a new rifle, a sub and oh wait ...even a 9mm pistol ...!

 

[Arsalan]

Yes I was referring to the M109A2 (US made)...We should have something like this indigenously ...there are countries who can assist us in such ventures ...
There is some missing link I am sure ...that is the reason why the upper echelon has not started projects which should have been started long ago ...We are in limbo on almost everything ....whether it is to procure a fighter plane, a new rifle, a sub and oh wait ...even a 9mm pistol ...!

We are not in a habit of investing in RnD unless it is something that we wont be able to outsource.

 

[Zarvan]

We are not in a habit of investing in RnD unless it is something that we wont be able to outsource.

Pakistan should check Turkish SP Artillery Gun

 

[Arsalan]

Pakistan should check Turkish SP Artillery Gun

We had some serious troubles with the towed ones.

 

[Quwa]

Pakistan lacks funding power. If it wants a Western system, it would need to ask for a line of credit or loan to help finance the upfront cost and initiate a program. Just think back to the Erieye AEW&C deal.

This is a disincentive to Western (and other) suppliers, and it puts Pakistan on a weaker footing relative to India. If we just maintained 1/3 purchasing power as India, but in cold hard cash every year without interruption, then no one will have trouble selling to us, even on loan (which we'd foot with a healthy down-payment from cash or short payment terms).

Now even if we had the cash (and our society is slowly wising up these days, so who knows...), I wouldn't want to spend too much on Western suppliers. We ought to be skeptical of pricey Western imports and only resort to them when we really have no other alternative at the moment in time. For example, AIP for submarines and CODAG propulsion for our surface warships would be an example of perfectly valid imports. These are very expensive systems to develop, and even if we import them, they are a capital purchase made once a couple of decades, especially if MRO is localized.

In the case of SPH, as good as the PzH-2000 is, I'd prefer avoiding it, even if we had the money. Seriously, what is the added benefit of the PzH-2000 that would justify the added cost of acquiring it over the next set of options from China, Turkey and South Korea?

If one has money, I prefer spending it on building up local capacity, i.e. we could get together with some partners and perhaps design an SPH centrally aligned with our needs?

I don't want to demean the idea of developing an SPH, any weapon system is complex on its own terms, but if Pakistan had the money and the right partners, is this not feasible? Imagine picking Denel for the 155mm gun and turret, Ukraine for the engine, using the al-Khalid for the tracked chassis, etc.

If Haider is still on the cards as a next-gen tank that will be produced at home, then I'd recommend that we stick to it in its entirety. In other words, make Haider into a universal platform for the basis of an MBT, SPH and APC (like what Russia did with the Armata). If need be, make it a long-term goal, something that could come to fruition after 2025 or 2030 (until then continue with al-Khalid).