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Fire Maj. Gen. Ghayur Mehmood

Its really time for the PA and ISI to express their stand clearly.. no ifs and buts..

Ok i got searched the link and its some blog :)))))))))) anyway so nevermind.

Our government should come clean on drones as on one hand you are supporting it and on the other hand you are hiding behind twisted statements

And that means?
 
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the PA is a disciplined organization - the Maj-Gen is the GoC and commands one of the division's fighting the TTP. during his press conference, he has distributed printed hand-outs of the militants as well as civilians killed since 2004. there is no way in hell he has acted independently. i firmly believe he got the green signal from GHQ to call the presser and distribute the data. he is very clear in his mind that the drones are effective.

OTOH, the KP government, the GoP are the ones who are playing a 'double-game'. in talks with the US and others, (see wiki-leaks) our leaders keep encouraging the US that the drones are effective but in public they shamelessly 'condemn' the drone strikes because they have not been able to convince the general public due to a lack of a CT Policy. read the various op-eds of Farhat Taj posted on the forum on the effectiveness of the drone-strikes in FATA. the local population strongly support the drone strikes because the militants 'flee' and have 'fled' from their villages.

As per your statement, if he is "very clear" in his mind and it was ordered by GHQ then why did PA not explain it to the nation in the beginning? why did they waited up till the point where whole of the nation is criticizing these attacks?

Do you mean to say that all the civilians who lost their loved ones in these attacks "strongly support" them? and please, do NOT give me that "collateral damage" BS, i would accept it to be "collateral damage" if there were UK and US people also involved in them. They don't even "risk" a "pilot driven" plane! I am sorry, but to me the life of my country's people is worth more than any other..

For those who accepts this BS of collateral damage, why don't you try to move yourself and your family in that area and accept collateral damage in good faith? lets see if you can put your "life" where your mouth is!
 
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Thats the sign of a true leader, with himself on the ground he would speak the truth no matter how bitter it might sound. For DENIAL leads you nowhere. For those asking for his firing should realise that while you have never visited the area he has boots on the ground and is fighting a battle to keep your fellow countrymen safe of the suicide bombings while you are praying in your mosques.

WELL DONE!!!! GENERAL
 
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Fire Maj. Gen. Ghayur Mehmood

The General misstated the facts and said:

“Most of the targets are hardcore militants,” said Maj. Gen. Ghayur Mehmood.

His statement is wrong, dead wrong.

how come? he said "Targets" not "Victims"
 
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Only time will tell what the truth is. But I am happy if the TTP is destroyed with the drones and I will be happier if we get to select the targets and shoot them ourselves.

There is the ugly fact of civilian casualties which, combined with the government's lack of interest in the affairs of the people, is causing simple folk into joining groups like the TTP and burgeoning their numbers. This, as I see it, will only lead to more work for our troops.
 
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lol after reading this i know its crap and bullshit thats why i dont click on any of ur links. Pak President slams army for terror links - Rediff.com News
 
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lol after reading this i know its crap and bullshit thats why i dont click on any of ur links. Pak President slams army for terror links - Rediff.com News

No one really asked you to click the links.

You did it out of your own volition.

Of course, everything is crap, excepting what you post!!
 
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As per your statement, if he is "very clear" in his mind and it was ordered by GHQ then why did PA not explain it to the nation in the beginning? why did they waited up till the point where whole of the nation is criticizing these attacks?

Do you mean to say that all the civilians who lost their loved ones in these attacks "strongly support" them? and please, do NOT give me that "collateral damage" BS, i would accept it to be "collateral damage" if there were UK and US people also involved in them. They don't even "risk" a "pilot driven" plane! I am sorry, but to me the life of my country's people is worth more than any other..

For those who accepts this BS of collateral damage, why don't you try to move yourself and your family in that area and accept collateral damage in good faith? lets see if you can put your "life" where your mouth is!

its best not to answer to morons like you but just FYI, i have visited FATA three times during the mil-ops embedded with the PA and have some first-hand knowledge of what the General is saying......
 
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Link 1 - The first paragraph itself shows the writer's negative opinion with regards to the Pak-US ties and cannot be considered neutral.

Links 2 and 3 - Talk mainly about Ch. Nisar Ali Khan's speech in the Parliament criticizing the Pak Army + ISI.
PML-N's Ch. Nisar has done some commendable work as chairman of PAC. But PML-N's stand may prove to be the catalyst either for victory or defeat in the next elections. They have been critical since the days of former Pres. Musharraf.

Link 4 - The article doesn't really quote Zardari, only points to another article by Newsweek where Riedel talks about the Pak Army + ISI, again without any actual quotes from Zaradri himself. There is another thread discussing this.

You are right in the last part, reality is still out of reach.
 
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Average No. of deaths from US drone strikes in Pakistan, 2004-2010

c = civilian
m=militants

2004-07
c=9
m=92

2008
c=144
m=149

2009
c=143
m=383

2010 ----------->>>(the general was referring to this!!!)
c=46
m=748

source;new america foundation


Strikes by Target

target..........2004-07.....2008.....2009.....2010.....2011.....total
taliban..........6...............11........27........42.........8...........94
B/mahsud.....0................1.........16........n/a........n/a........17 (17 hits on b/mahsud)
al qaeda.......5...............10.........9.........8...........1...........33 (al qaeda dissapearing....??)
haqqani........1................2..........4.........16..........1..........24(expect these to intensify)
unclear.........0...............13.........4.........68..........14........99(missed target/bad intell/colleteral damage.....??)

source;new american foundation
 
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An Inside Look at the U.S.-Pakistan Feud Over Drones

By Omar Waraich / Islamabad Saturday, Apr. 23, 2011


For the past six weeks, Pakistan has echoed with ferocious opposition to the CIA's covert drones program that targets al-Qaeda and Taliban militants hiding in the tribal areas along the Afghan border. Ever since Pakistan's army chief General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani issued a rare and fiercely worded condemnation of a March 17 drone strike, his criticism of the U.S. has been repeated by the prime minister, opposition politicians, and media commentators alike. And in that time, the CIA has fired only two drone more strikes, breaking a pattern of around a dozen a month.

The latest drone strike happened on Friday, on the heels of U.S. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Admiral Mike Mullen and U.S. Army Chief Gen. Martin Dempsey's visits to Pakistan. Top American and Pakistani military, intelligence and government officials have been trying to calm the tensions between the allies through meetings in Washington and Islamabad. But little progress has been made: Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani continues to call for the drones to stop, as Friday's strike killed 25 people, including four women and five children, according to Pakistani officials. The reasons for Pakistan's sudden decision to end seven years of either tolerating or silently approving of the drones program remain unclear, raising questions about the nature of its current vehement complaint.

In fact, the ambiguity of the situation arises from the ranks of the Pakistani military — out of the public arena. For example, on March 23rd, Gen. Kayani played host to a clutch of senior retired generals and, amid the tea and collegial bonhomie, the conversation casually turned to Kayani's statement a week earlier. Some of the visitors wondered why he had adopted such a sharp tone, describing the March 17 attack as an "unjustified and intolerable" violation of human rights. "These drones do have some use," one of the retired generals said, according to someone present. "Yes, they do have a use," Gen. Kayani was heard to reply.

Ever since the advent of the CIA program, the Pakistani security establishment has been content to at least tolerate the covert drones, and even come to discreetly approve of it. The very first drone strike in 2004 killed Nek Muhammad, a forerunner to the Pakistani Taliban. In 2006, when an airstrike killed some 80 people in Bajaur, provoking domestic outrage and the first major retaliatory suicide bombing, Pakistan maintained that its forces were responsible for the incident — not the U.S. And, over at least the past year, Pakistani generals have come to be impressed by the accuracy of the drones and their ability to limit militant movements.

One general had even gone public with his approval. In early March, before the strike that stirred up the controversy, Maj. Gen. Ghayur Mehmood, the general officer commanding Pakistan's seventh division in North Waziristan, told reporters: "Myths and rumors about U.S. predator strikes and the casualty figures are many, but it's a reality that many of those killed in these strikes are hardcore elements, a sizeable number of them foreigners." According to the general's own figures, 164 predator strikes had killed over 964 terrorists over the past four years. The results have won the drone program some supporters in the tribal areas; the loudest protests emanate from areas well removed, like Punjab.

Drones have always been a delicate and difficult issue for the U.S. and Pakistan. The benefits to Washington are obvious — a pilotless means of warfare that allows high-value targets to be eliminated in a territory where it cannot deploy troops. In recent years, the CIA has developed its own, impressive network of local assets that pinpoint targets; meanwhile, enhanced drone technology with smaller, sleeker missiles has meant fewer civilian casualties. For the Pakistanis, the use of technology that surpasses their own has been welcome, where the targets have been of mutual interest — members of al-Qaeda and the Pakistani Taliban.

Pakistan is less keen, however, on drones that targets militants it deems friendly. On his visit to Islamabad this week, Adm. Mullen said that the U.S. had "strong reservations" about the ISI's links to the notorious Haqqani network based in North Waziristan. "The reality is the Haqqani [network] is supporting, funding, training fighters that are killing Americans, killing coalition partners," he said. According to a tally by the New American Foundation, at least 24 drones have specifically targeted the Haqqani network, and even killed leader Sirajuddin Haqqani's brother, Muhammad.

Similarly, drones that have targeted Mullah Nazir Ahmed in South Waziristan and his fellow Waziri militant leader Hafiz Gul Bahadur in North Waziristan trouble the Pakistan Army. It has relied on these anti-U.S. militants in its efforts to take on the Pakistani Taliban. However, American strikes against the forces of those warlords have not elicited anything close to the current amount of vitriol.


Pakistani security officials say they are worried about the fallout from drone attacks. While they may accurately target militant leaders, the Pakistani Taliban have often invoked them as justification for attacks on Pakistani troops and bombing campaigns in the Pakistani heartland. The public, meanwhile, feels that the frequency of drone strikes — around a dozen a month, chiefly eliminating low-level operatives — is excessive.

The divergence in priorities has meant that Pakistan could never fully embrace the drone program. Any public acknowledgement of cooperation with the drone attacks would have imperiled the Pakistan army's links to friendly militants. (The U.S. cannot publicly acknowledge the covert program, either.) Those links are also why the CIA has withheld information about its strikes, only informing the Pakistanis either when the strikes were imminent or afterward. The fear is that the Pakistanis may tip-off the militants beforehand. Other concerns include injured self-esteem. The Pakistan military has long prided itself on being the ultimate guardians of the country's frontiers. Allowing a foreign power to assert itself on its soil weakens that claim.

For these reasons, it has always suited Pakistan to adopt a policy of "public denial and private acquiescence," in the words of a senior western diplomat. This was most clearly demonstrated in last year's Wikileaks dump of State Department cables. According to one cable, Gilani told U.S. officials: "I don't care if they do it as long as they get the right people. We'll protest in the National Assembly and then ignore it." After Gilani's recent anti-drone outbursts, one senior Pakistani official told TIME that the new comments should be taken in the same spirit. "Drones will continue," the official added.

But consistent public condemnation now suits Pakistan for other reasons. During the Raymond Davis affair, Pakistan's top intelligence agency, the ISI, was able to tap anti-Americanism in Pakistan to apply pressure on the CIA to end the use of contractors spying on militant groups in the mainland. Davis' killing of two Pakistanis gave them the perfect opening. The March 17 drone strike gives the Pakistan military a similar opportunity.

The incident itself is intriguing. The Pakistanis say up to 45 people were killed by the strike, including at least a dozen militants. The U.S. denies any civilians were killed. In comparison, U.S.-Pakistan relations did not suffer when Pakistani soldiers were mistakenly hit by American fire. The area involved shouldn't have surprised Islamabad: the Datta Khel section of North Waziristan had been struck by drones five times before this year alone (the last just the day before, on March 16).

By assuming a defiant, nationalist pose backed up by a populace long hostile to drone attacks, Pakistan may in fact be trying to get the Americans to concede to Islamabad a much coveted but as yet denied role in the Afghanistan endgame. The quarrel may, in fact, have little to do with drones at all.


See the world's most influential people in the 2011 TIME 100.



Read more: An Inside Look at the U.S.-Pakistan Feud Over Drones - TIME
 
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This is kind of off topic, but is Ghayur Mehmood a guy with blonde hair and blue eyes.
 
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