Finance minister Miftah Ismael got beaten by Awam at Karachi airport

[PakFactor]

IQ = 0

That’s to much I think it went negative lol

 

[Black.Mamba]

No, it is not a fallacy. PTI supporters (I remain one but I am also looking at things objectively and I also have an order of loyalty in my mind) openly claim on one hand that the "neutrals" withdrew their support from the PTI government thus MQM etc. all backed out and the IK government fell. Then you say that PTI could win elections and form a government all on its own. No, it cannot. If your claim was indeed the case then why did the PTI not retain a majority on its own? Why could it not pursue its allies to stay the course and weather the VNC?

There is this selective bashing of the "neutrals" here by some members instead of looking at things objectively.

PTI was helped in 2018 at the expense of others. This is what led to the formation of a unity government with support from other parties. Some orchestration was worked out which now you are not willing to accept. PTI is indeed popular with urban Pakistan but Pakistan is not just "urban Pakistan".

So let's decide whether we want the "neutrals" to play or not. You cannot just have it your way when the "neutrals" only play in PTI's favor. If this fight is about "democracy" and rule of law then realize that no meddling would be acceptable. Whether its for PTI or for any other party. That would be the principled thing to do (I point this out because PTI did not do the principled thing in 2018) and ask for.

First of all, I principally agree with you that the "neutrals" should have always remained neutral but we all know the past.

When you look at this objectively you conveniently miss out on some major and minor details.

Let's talk about the support of MQM:
1. MQM's politics has always made them broker a deal and be part of the government, giving support, withdrawing support on fortnightly basis is their forte in order to create some leverage, you can go back all the way to 99 this is what they have been doing.

2. MQM saw in 2018 that the PTI will be forming the next government, and it turned out to be the case as PTI had a major lead over the others, MQM being MQM jumped onto the bandwagon living up to their past.

3. Now why withdraw their support? Again they lived up to their past, they saw (read: got the signal) that the next government will be PDM so they jumped onto the new bandwagon and it suited them as well, Karachi is the stronghold of MQM and they are not threatened by PPP rather by PTI as you mentioned yourself that urban centers are PTI's stronghold. They clearly knew in the upcoming election they have to pit against PTI.

Then you say that PTI could win elections and form a government all on its own. No, it cannot. If your claim was indeed the case then why did the PTI not retain a majority on its own? Why could it not pursue its allies to stay the course and weather the VNC?

I never claimed that, it was actually a counterclaim that if neutrals helped PTI win seats then why couldn't they get them a simple majority?

The common perception was created that on the election eve the system was deliberately shut down to help PTI, there is no proof that it helped PTI rather there are other voices that claim that it was shut down to actually stop PTI from getting a simple majority so that PTI is always dependent on allies, hence the crutches. How do I substantiate that claim? Well, the results of Khawaja Asif point towards it.

Logically speaking Milestablishment cannot afford to have a strong party or PM, it will erode away their leverage so it makes all the logical sense.

Lastly, the way judiciary handled everything, from opening at midnight to everything else, I am not arguing that the deputy speakers' ruling was 100% correct, if they had allowed it would have serious consequences in the future but when it suits the judiciary and neutrals they take up memogate, request all possible letters and records, here it was not suitable for their objectives hence did not even bothered to ask about the letter, the reason for all the fuss. Adjournment after adjourment on horse-trading petitions but for all others they were extra proactive. Taking up petitions of a known military stooge lawyer and rejecting government petitions, was all orchestrated so claiming that it was all-natural, organic, legal, and neutral is a big fat lie; the difference is all these stakeholders thought it is the 70s, 80, 90s and can shove any narrative but it isn't, they can remain in denial for eternity that the youth is ill-informed, but the reality is they are very much informed.

 

[Ssan]

No, it is not a fallacy. PTI supporters (I remain one but I am also looking at things objectively and I also have an order of loyalty in my mind) openly claim on one hand that the "neutrals" withdrew their support from the PTI government thus MQM etc. all backed out and the IK government fell. Then you say that PTI could win elections and form a government all on its own. No, it cannot. If your claim was indeed the case then why did the PTI not retain a majority on its own? Why could it not pursue its allies to stay the course and weather the VNC?

There is this selective bashing of the "neutrals" here by some members instead of looking at things objectively.

PTI was helped in 2018 at the expense of others. This is what led to the formation of a unity government with support from other parties. Some orchestration was worked out which now you are not willing to accept. PTI is indeed popular with urban Pakistan but Pakistan is not just "urban Pakistan".

So let's decide whether we want the "neutrals" to play or not. You cannot just have it your way when the "neutrals" only play in PTI's favor. If this fight is about "democracy" and rule of law then realize that no meddling would be acceptable. Whether its for PTI or for any other party. That would be the principled thing to do (I point this out because PTI did not do the principled thing in 2018) and ask for.

Not sure about this 2018 claim anymore. It seems that the opposite is true. The majority of close contests between PML-N and PTI went to PML-N

 

[jupiter2007]

PTI digging its own grave. Bokhlaahat ka shikar ho gayi hai.

Qasim Suri per attack hoa tou rona shuru ker dya tha. Dosri taraf tou hanstay hain.

You will lose popularity like this. This is not something to be proud of.

Sindh House attack walay abhi tak jail mein hain

Keep your Amreeki narative nahi tou phir loug aalo tamatar ky rates jis tarah pareshan hoey thay phir wohi haal hojaye popularity ga. People started saying purana Pakistan hi acha tha.

Popularity ka ghalat istemal mengha paray ga.

Ajj raat Chand raat ki bike rally bhi fail ho gayi hai

PTI is not doing anything. Country is taken over by imported government and Awam want it back; hence, you see the reaction from the awam.

 

[ghazi52]

.,..,

 

[Imran Khan]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1521423000528199680

 

[ghazi52]

..It's time to eat together - why disturb.