FGFA / PAK-FA (T-50) Vs F-35 JSF

[Thomas]

what you saying sir???

the

I believe he is talking about thrust vectoring missiles similar to what the AIM-9X is. The F-35 uses the AIM-9X coupled with the Distributed Aperture System. Which the T-50 does not have.

 

[sancho]

the

I believe he is talking about thrust vectoring missiles similar to what the AIM-9X is. The F-35 uses the AIM-9X coupled with the Distributed Aperture System. Which the T-50 does not have.

Are you sure about it? We know that the Russians develop a complete new set of missiles for the Pak Fa, we know that at least FGFA will get 360° situational awareness with it's new EWS and even the Russians are planning with a lot of sensors all around the airframe. And that are the passive sensors only, don't forget that Pak Fa / FGFA will have at least 5 different radar arrays, maybe even a 6th one to provide full 360° radar coverage.
I think it's way to early to conclude about Pak Fas / FGFAs capabilities in these fields, since we just see it in a prototype stage for airframe and flight performance tests. The sensors and main avionics aren't added yet and might surprise many people in the west.

 

[Thomas]

Are you sure about it? We know that the Russians develop a complete new set of missiles for the Pak Fa, we know that at least FGFA will get 360° situational awareness with it's new EWS and even the Russians are planning with a lot of sensors all around the airframe. And that are the passive sensors only, don't forget that Pak Fa / FGFA will have at least 5 different radar arrays, maybe even a 6th one to provide full 360° radar coverage.
I think it's way to early to conclude about Pak Fas / FGFAs capabilities in these fields, since we just see it in a prototype stage for airframe and flight performance tests. The sensors and main avionics aren't added yet and might surprise many people in the west.

the Russians have stated that the UOMZ OLS-35 will be installed on the T-50. It is the same system the Su-35 uses.

 

[Thomas]

Good video showing F-35 capabilites.

 

[ptldM3]

the Russians have stated that the UOMZ OLS-35 will be installed on the T-50. It is the same system the Su-35 uses.

The SU-35's OLS and the T-50-2 OLS is noticeable different in size, with the T-50's OLS being the smaller of the two, which means it can not be the OLS-35.

Here is the T-50's OLS system, it is not the OLS-35.

 

[Vibs]

the

I believe he is talking about thrust vectoring missiles similar to what the AIM-9X is. The F-35 uses the AIM-9X coupled with the Distributed Aperture System. Which the T-50 does not have.

You are missing a key fact in Russian fighter design. Unlike the US military aircrafts, every Russian fighter is designed to be compatible to a wide range of missiles irrespective of where they come from .i.e. if an Airforce waned to use US or French or Israel developed missiles with Pak FA,they could. Weapon comparisons can be done between air forces, not between fighters.

 

[Thomas]

The SU-35's OLS and the T-50-2 OLS is noticeable different in size, with the T-50's OLS being the smaller of the two, which means it can not be the OLS-35.

Here is the T-50's OLS system, it is not the OLS-35.

according to Janes defense it is derived from the OLS-35 but possibly the OLS-50M model. One way or another though it is derived from the same technology and not even close to the same capability of the DAS on the F-35.

UOMZ OLS-35 (Russian Federation) - Jane's Electro-Optic Systems

"First displayed at the Paris Air Show in June 2007, the OLS-35 (Optiko-Lokatsionnaya-Stantsiya or Optical Locator Station) from the Urals Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ), is derived from the earlier OLS-30 for application on the evolved Su-35 'Flanker-E' fighter.With the first flight of the Sukhoi T-50, described as Russia's fifth generation fighter, on 29 January 2010, what appears to be an OLS-35 sensor can be seen mounted ahead of the canopy windscreen. Whether this is, indeed, the OLS-35 or a evolved version (the so-called OLS-50M) has yet to be confirmed."

 

[Thomas]

Here is a good PDF compilation of T-50 specs and pictures.

http://www.afa.org/edop/2010/PAK-FA'sFirstFlighton29JAN10REV5.pdf

 

[ptldM3]

according to Janes defense it is derived from the OLS-35 but possibly the OLS-50M model. One way or another though it is derived from the same technology and not even close to the same capability of the DAS on the F-35.

UOMZ OLS-35 (Russian Federation) - Jane's Electro-Optic Systems

"First displayed at the Paris Air Show in June 2007, the OLS-35 (Optiko-Lokatsionnaya-Stantsiya or Optical Locator Station) from the Urals Optical and Mechanical Plant (UOMZ), is derived from the earlier OLS-30 for application on the evolved Su-35 'Flanker-E' fighter.With the first flight of the Sukhoi T-50, described as Russia's fifth generation fighter, on 29 January 2010, what appears to be an OLS-35 sensor can be seen mounted ahead of the canopy windscreen. Whether this is, indeed, the OLS-35 or a evolved version (the so-called OLS-50M) has yet to be confirmed."

Do you know what an OLS and the DAS is? DAS is comprised of many different systems. The OLS is a stand alone system capable of performing no less than 11 different fuctions. I suggest you study the OLS-35 and what it is capable of. In addition to the OLS system the SU-35 also has other optical sensors/electronic warfare systems that does much of what the DAS does, such as detecting, identifying, and destroying hostile ground targets with a combination of radar warning receiver, OLS and anti radiation weapons.

Thank you for acknowledging that the OLS-35 is not the same system that is instaled on the T-50-2. However, i have to ask how you know the capability of the T-50's OLS system?

In addition, the Jane's artical stated that an OLS-35 sensor or an evolution of the OLS was mounted on the T-50 prototype, but in fact the first prototype had absolutely no OLS.

 

[Thomas]

Do you know what an OLS and the DAS is? DAS is comprised of many different systems. The OLS is a stand alone system capable of performing no less than 11 different fuctions. I suggest you study the OLS-35 and what it is capable of. In addition to the OLS system the SU-35 also has other optical sensors/electronic warfare systems that does much of what the DAS does, such as detecting, identifying, and destroying hostile ground targets with a combination of radar warning receiver, OLS and anti radiation weapons.

Thank you for acknowledging that the OLS-35 is not the same system that is instaled on the T-50-2. However, i have to ask how you know the capability of the T-50's OLS system?

In addition, the Jane's artical stated that an OLS-35 sensor or an evolution of the OLS was mounted on the T-50 prototype, but in fact the first prototype had absolutely no OLS.

Yes I see the differences on each. And both are being used for similar purposes. I am simply saying if it is based on the OLS-30, 35family of IRST systems. The DAS - EOTS combo is a much better capability that will give the F-35 An edge many here refuse to acknowledge.


As far as the PAK-FA prototypes the first one did have an OLS mounted on it.

PAK-FA OLS

Su-35 OLS

 

[Thomas]

EO DAS

 

[ptldM3]

Yes I see the differences on each. Both are being used for similar purposes. I am simply saying if it is based on the OLS-30, 35family of IRST systems. The DAS - EOTS combo is a much better capability that will give the F-35 An edge many here refuse to acknowledge.


As far as the PAK-FA prototypes the first one did have an OLS mounted on it.

PAK-FA OLS

Su-35 OLS

The OLS-35 is a radical departure to the OLS-30, but like everything it has a base or inherent knowledge from previous systems, this certainly does not mean it is just a modified system.

And the first pak-fa had no OLS, it had a metal sphere in place of where the OLS on the second prototype is mounted. And why or how would the DAS - EOTS have an edge over a system that is classified. Like stated earlier what the DAS and EOTS does is nothing new, don't let the fancy acronym fool you research the fuctions of both systems--the EOTS is a fancy acronym for IRST or OLS.

 

[sancho]

the Russians have stated that the UOMZ OLS-35 will be installed on the T-50. It is the same system the Su-35 uses.

You are comparing the wrong features with eachother!

The OLS 35 is the frontal IRST system for Russian fighters, comparable to PIRATE on the EF, or FSO on the Rafale. The F35 don't have a dedicated IRST system at all, it uses IRST "features" of EOTS and DAS.
EOTS is mainly a more advanced sniper targeting pod, just like DAS is a more advanced IR MAWS and it's not like others don't have similar techs. Rafales DDM NG are also new IR MAWS, which provides long range spherical view and detection. It's not clear so far if it has similar IRST and weapon cueing functions, but otherwise it is very similar.
AFAIK the sensor behind the Pak Fa cockpit is an IR MAWS as well, which provides coverage of the upper hemisphere and I am totally expecting the Russians to fit something similar to the fuselage part as well. The Mig 35 prototypes already showed that they integrated the targeting pod into the fuselage as well, so spherical IR detection and weapon cueing shouldn't be such a big problem for them don't you think?
And again, the IR part is only one side of the EWS features, not to forget that it will have other passive sensor + the higher radar coverage as well. When it comes to SA, I rate Pak Fa / FGFA even higher than F35.

 

[tvsram1992]

what you saying sir???

Yes thats true. I mean missiles that can be launched in backward direction. Russians are working on it . Trying to find the source .

 

[nightcrawler]

Do you know what an OLS and the DAS is? DAS is comprised of many different systems. The OLS is a stand alone system capable of performing no less than 11 different fuctions..

this is the most important reply of all. If you see this vid
f-35 lightning II DAS system - YouTube
DAS is composed of six discrete physical pieces situated around the plane to giv it 360 view. So it will not take any brains to attach six OLS systems around T-50 to reach the same or above qualities exhibited by DAS equipped F-35 (this may not be necessary because of the already situated 'smart-skin' radars in T-50 LERXs)

I have collected the OLS family specs in a single document here:
http://www.doxtop.com/browse/7648d918/uomz-optronics-helis--planes.aspx

...for now nothing mention as of T-50.